I'm not offended.

Made up comments: 'I just want to win. MLB. WBC. Hell, I even played in a little league game last week and demanded to be dealt after the fourth inning to the other team because we were down three runs. The commitment to winning just wasn't there for those guys. All it was was Pokemon, Power Rangers and Mole Sisters."

I'm offended by your lack of being offended.

No link yet, but ESPNews is reporting this decision.

Originally reported by Murray Chass in the NYT.

More made up stuff: "Also, I've been praticing my batting a lot this year. You may remember, I got caught batting a ball out of a glove and I've really made an effort to improve that this summer. I spent 2 weeks in Nepal at a secret ball slapping retreat where they blindfolded me and had me wave spastically at things until I could slap a mite off a leather sofa. And I know I'm good at it, Robert Fick called me up after I had sent him a DVD with my technique. I really hope I can unleash that this summer in some game situations."

The price of making it too easy to shift countries in these tournaments. The rule should be that you were born in, or currently reside in and are a citizen of. Simple, and prevents weird things like people playing for countries their great-great-grandparents came from (which would allow me to play for just about any country in Europe despite never being anywhere but Canada & the USA).

I almost care.


Almost.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...are the Capstan Shafts on tour yet?

John I disagree - it should the country you were born in, with the exception being over seas military brats or similar.

Was the lead in on the front page purposely cut off at "for the..."? If so, that was good.

now i can't root for america... way to go arod.

By continually trying to make the decision you think will please the most people you end up offending everybody.

Well, I am offended. ARod should have done the unpopular and principled thing and declined to participate on the grounds that this "event" is a phony Selig-centric circle jerk.

I hate you WBC!

I'm surprised, I thought George had all-but-officially made a policy that everyone except perhaps Jeter was not allowed in the WBC based on A-Rod's first decision, Matsui's choice and Rivera's all-but-stated unwillingness to pitch. The one I'm really not pleased about is Wang, I don't want him pitching for Taiwan.

America-#### yeah.

I'll believe it when he actually takes the field.

ARod should have done the unpopular and principled thing and declined to participate on the grounds that this "event" is a phony Selig-centric circle jerk.

But A-Rod is a big phony, so he should be playing in the this "phony Selig-centric circle jerk."

I am deeply offended. I hope Harv comes around to call A-Rod a panty-waste again. That was hilarious!

It's panty-waist, right? The idea being that you wear panties, I think, not that you either waste panties or are in some fashion yourself a waste of panties.

I'm excited about the WBC. It will provide excellent baseball entertainment during the month of March. I love baseball, I love baseball played by good and great players, so I like things that provide me with more of it.

ARod was at Bellagio over New Years. He was playing 10-20 NL. But, when too many peopler were bothering him, he asked to play in Bobby's room- the top pro area of Bellagio's poker room, a glassed off section. I didn't see what they were playing, but it was all black chips, so probably 100-200 NL.

I'm excited about the WBC.

Same here. I don't quite get the hate it engenders, but that's just more evidence of my cognitive impairment.

The WBC should have been played in early November.

ARod was at Bellagio over New Years. He was playing 10-20 NL. But, when too many peopler were bothering him, he asked to play in Bobby's room- the top pro area of Bellagio's poker room, a glassed off section. I didn't see what they were playing, but it was all black chips, so probably 100-200 NL.

When my father was in Germany he saw the actor who played John Boy in The Waltons at a restaurant he was having lunch at. The guy noticed that my Dad noticed him and got a look on his face like, "Oh, crap." but my father just smiled and waved to him, and he looked so relieved, and waved back.

Does the WBC even have a national television contract?

I just hope that nobody gets hurt doing this thing. I still don't quite see the point.

It's panty-waist, right? The idea being that you wear panties, I think, not that you either waste panties or are in some fashion yourself a waste of panties.

I'm excited about the WBC. It will provide excellent baseball entertainment during the month of March. I love baseball, I love baseball played by good and great players, so I like things that provide me with more of it.

You may be right. Let's just make it easy and call him a #####.

And I as well am looking forward to the WBC. More baseball, earlier in the year. What's not to like? I miss the baseball fandom of my youth, where I didn't pay attention to salaries, what causes injuries, platoon matchups, etc. I just rooted for my favorite team.

I'm not too proud to say I'm happy that A-Rod will be playing for America - it gives us a much better chance of winning! Also, having the world's best player in the tournament gives it more legitimacy. Too bad the semis and finals are best of one.

Wow. Who knew the nanny censors kitten?

What's not to like? I miss the baseball fandom of my youth, where I didn't pay attention to salaries, what causes injuries, platoon matchups, etc. I just rooted for my favorite team.

My favorite team isn't playing? It's training in Tampa and will presumably carry on with that exercise without at least four of its starters.

As much I'd like to see the U.S. win this jingoistic jamboree, I'd rather see the Yankees with the World Series about a million times more.

My favorite team isn't playing? It's training in Tampa and will presumably carry on with that exercise without at least four of its starters.

As much I'd like to see the U.S. win this jingoistic jamboree, I'd rather see the Yankees with the World Series about a million times more.

You missed my point. In your less aware days of youth, you wouldn't see 4 Yankees participating in the WBC as an impediment to the Yankees winning the WS.

I hate you WBC

wussy bluelipped cad?

I just hope someone big who skipped out (such as Rivera) gets hurt during spring training while the WBC is going on. Now that would be funny/ironic. Hopefully it will be various Yankees & Red Sox too, given I'm a Blue Jay fan.

As much I'd like to see the U.S. win this jingoistic jamboree, I'd rather see the Yankees with the World Series about a million times more.

It's pretty hard for me to draw such a clear connection between the success of my favorite team and the existence of the WBC.

Some players won't train with their teammates quite as much, and some players will play at full-bore more than they typically would in the spring. I see some greater risk of injuries and some risk of players not building up their on-field relationships with teammates. That's not really all that big a deal, I don't think, though it isn't perfect. And for the most part, it's as harmful to one team as to another.

And in exchange, we get more, better baseball. That's exciting.

I'll probably be rooting for the Dominican - there are more players on that squad who number among my favorites. The US team seems to be composed primarily of a bunch of douches and nondescripts.

Okay, I've been looking, and I don't see anything about any of these games being on TV. A whole bunch of info on how to buy overpriced tickets, but nothing on the games being aired anywhere.

Now I really don't see the point.

now i can't root for america... way to go arod.

Because now you know they'll lose?

A whole bunch of info on how to buy overpriced tickets, but nothing on the games being aired anywhere.

They'll be on XM, further justifying my decision to purchase XM last week!

I'm pretty sure there'll be a deal with ESPN by the time this rolls around.

Of course, I think this will be up against the NCAA conference tourneys, so this could be a problem.

I really haven't seen much in the mainstream press promoting the WBC. Although it would be incredibly expensive, they should put an ad in the Super Bowl.

I can't imagine that it wouldn't be televised. I know that March is huge for college hoops, but other than that nothing else in sports is really going on then.

So, who is managing the US? And will they play Jeter or Arod at SS?

So, who is managing the US? And will they play Jeter or Arod at SS?

Buck Martinez, and under international rules you get two shortstops.

Although it would be incredibly expensive, they should put an ad in the Super Bowl.

Didn't MLB run ad in the 04 Super Bowl -- the one with Jeter, A-Rod and Josh Beckett?

<blockquote>I'll probably be rooting for the Dominican - there are more players on that squad who number among my favorites. The US team seems to be composed primarily of a bunch of douches and nondescripts. </blockquote>

This is an interesting point. How do soccer fans deal with that? Are rivalries as intense between pro soccer teams as they are between baseball teams? I can imagine it would be hard to root for a player that you spend so much time hating. Luckily for me, there's no Dodgers on the US roster.


Does the presence of Bonds on the roster mean kevin won't be rooting for the US?

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with my quote tags?

I just hope that nobody gets hurt doing this thing. I still don't quite see the point.

Somebody will get hurt at some point during the WBC. Maybe not this year, but if they keep it up, someone will get hurt. Everyone (sportswriters, fans, Primates) should know this. But what will happen is that it will be fine for a few years, then a pitcher will hurt his elbow in 2010 and teams will start pulling back their players and there will be outcry against the exhibition games.

We already saw this with Barry Larkin blowing out his arm in the relay throw competition at the ASB. Even though there was always a risk, nobody complained until a player got hurt.

Of course, this isn't limited to injuries. The NBA lottery was fine until Orlando won back-to-back #1 picks, WHICH WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT UNDER A LOTTERY SYSTEM. Then they had to change it instead of accepting that the whole point of a lottery is that nothing's guaranteed.

Soccer club rivalries can match, and sometimes even exceed baseball rivalries.

I'm thinking of the Barca - Real Madrid rivalry, which is a doppelganger for the Catalan - Castillean rivalry (for those of you who don't know, Barcelona is the capital of Catalonia, which has a very difficult relationship with the rest of Spain, to the point that it is not inconceivable to think that Catalonia might one day become a fully autonomous entity, be it within or outside Spain).

I'm a Barca fan, and even though it's difficult to justify, I can (to paraphrase Chris Rock) understand why Barca fans treated Luis Figo as a traitor when he came back to Barcelona in 2002 (Figo had promised that he was not going to jump ship, had always spoken ill of Madrid and then jumped ship). Figo was pelted by coins and batteries when he first came back to the Camp Nou.

While Yankees - Red Sox is intense, I don't think Johnny Damon (or Roger Clemens, a few years earlier) had it as bad....

I'm pretty sure there'll be a deal with ESPN by the time this rolls around.

Or maybe it'll be like Brockian ultra-cricket, where they play the games behind really high walls and everyone just speculates about what's going on inside. That's guaranteed to generate hype!

Barca-Real is child's play compared to the South American rivalries like Boca-River where fans have actually kidnapped players and other fans.
And of course there is Penarol-Nacional where fans so consistently ran the field to attack other players that Penarol was forced to forfeit two matches as a result and the teams have actually been forced to play in front of an empty stadium because of the violence, but that isn't too unusual as I recall Milan and Inter had the same thing happen to them. In the end, you very grudgingly root for players from a rival club that are on your national side, if one of them gets injured in a win, all the better.

The Celtic-Rangers matches in Scotland are pretty crazy as well.

I think in general the national pride involved outweighs club hatreds when it comes to wanting the best players, especially for World and Euro Cup competitions. This WBC is crap.

I read a book written by an American about British soccer fans back in the '80s (can't remember the title right now)

In one part, he interviews a British police chief, who can't get over the fact that we can have American football games with 70,000+ fans and only a handful of security officers.

I read a book written by an American about British soccer fans back in the '80s (can't remember the title right now)

"Among The Thugs," Bill Buford's foray into the behavior and psychology of football hooligans (with a side trip into the then-growing popularity of the neo-fascist fringe in England). One of the funniest, if occasionally disturbing, books I've ever read. His opening account of drunken, loutish Man U fans taking over Turin, Italy prior to a match with Juventus will have you alternately laughing and picking your jaw off the table at the sheer mindlessness of the behavior of the "fans". A must read for all Primates.

Peñarol, you're probably Uruguayan (or have some connection thereof).

I'm not saying Boca - River (especially at la bombonera) or Peñarol - Nacional aren't heart felt. Hell, the're derbies, and as such the blood boils. Barca - Real Madrid is beyond any other rivalry, however, because it encapsulates a political rivalry between an oppressed/rebel (take your pick) area and an oppressive/centralist area

When you read how Barca symbols were seen as the only way for Catalans to expresss themselves pre- Franco's death in 1975 or how Barca players were once told at the Bernabeu to lose if they wanted to get out with their lives, things get much more complicated.

"Among The Thugs," Bill Buford's foray into the behavior and psychology of football hooligans (with a side trip into the then-growing popularity of the neo-fascist fringe in England).

Yes, thank you.

His opening account of drunken, loutish Man U fans taking over Turin, Italy prior to a match with Juventus will have you alternately laughing and picking your jaw off the table at the sheer mindlessness of the behavior of the "fans".

The shocking thing wasn't the mindlessness, it was the fact that they planned everything out. They actually had captains and generals and foot soldiers, organized plans on how to deal with security barriers and opponents' fans, and squad-based house-to-house fighting techniques. IIRC, they actually defeated the police and had control of the city until the army showed up.

I think it finally took people dying in stadiums before they managed to calm everything down.

Among the Thugs is a great read (and made a surprisingly awesome piece of theatre, as well) but I seem to recall some English football fans criticizing some of the assertions made in the book. Seems like the poster formerly known as Flynn was one of them, and maybe fra paolo? It was pre-registration, in any event.

I seem to recall some English football fans criticizing some of the assertions made in the book.

I think there are accusations that Buford takes some creative license (describing certain events that he heard about second-hand as if he was there, embellishing certain stories to make them more shocking).

48. You know, I really dislike how Barca-Real proponents think that that Catalan-Castillo division makes that rivalry more than any other, like it trumps the religious significance of Celtic-Rangers, or the seething class tensions of various other intra-city derbies, just more of that Spanish self-obsession if you ask me.

Why am I developing the growing suspicion that there is not a whit of difference between A-rod and Nathan Lane's character in "The Birdcage"?

"ooooo, I don't know what to do!"
(throws himself face first into divan)

good grief...........

Wow, I think that's the first time I've hijacked a thread!

And thanks Harv, that's what I was waiting for.

and maybe fra paolo

It wasn't me. I've read the book, but I don't know much about how soccer fans received it.

Personally, I think the Barca-Real thing might be overrated. It's always struck me as more fevered from the Barca direction than Real. When I was in Madrid, and the two were playing, the Madrilenos in the bar didn't seem to get too worked up. They just expected to win. Real fans look down on everyone from their august height of having been Franco's favourite.

Fiorentina-Juventus is my nomination for being most heated. I don't know how well known this fact is, but Fiorentina, representatives of the most beautiful city in the world, have some of the world's most evil and vicious soccer fans. England fans can't compete with them any more. And when you wander around the streets, you frequently see the walls of historic landmarks daubed with 'Juve mierda' slogans. Juventus fans regard Fiorentinans as loudmouths who've accomplished nothing, so there's a lot more hate than I've ever encountered from Real fans toward Barcelona. Roma fans like to think they're as tough as Fiorentina's, but I'm not sure they've managed to convince everyone.

Most of these Italian hooligans are fascists, but the Tuscan teams and Roma have had a more leftist flavour. I used to have a map showing political affiliations, but I think I threw it out.

I don't know much about Boca-River. I gather Racing v Independiente is quite a derby, too. Rosario is mad at all Buenos Aires teams.

I'm told on good authority that all Colombian teams hate each other equally ferociously.

It’s great to see the best player in the game playing in the WBC

I am looking forward to seeing Albert Pujols play too.

It wasn't me. I've read the book, but I don't know much about how soccer fans received it.

My mistake, that thread was eons ago.

Real Americans wouldntve even considered being unAmerican.....






The above was meant in jest BTW

"Of course, I think this will be up against the NCAA conference tourneys, so this could be a problem. "

FOCK! Are you serious? That REALLY really sucks

Having any kind of fan interest in Arod is like rooting for McDonalds or Microsoft or any other large, soulless corporate entity.

The Perfect Yankee.

I think in general the national pride involved outweighs club hatreds when it comes to wanting the best players, especially for World and Euro Cup competitions. This WBC is crap.

Dude, good international tournaments had to start somewhere. The first World Cup had 13 teams, and few of them were from Europe, and none from Britain (England was still the world's best team then). The European Championship - not the European Cup, as that's now the Champions League - was a knock out competition, not really even a tournament.

Among the Thugs is a great read (and made a surprisingly awesome piece of theatre, as well) but I seem to recall some English football fans criticizing some of the assertions made in the book. Seems like the poster formerly known as Flynn was one of them, and maybe fra paolo? It was pre-registration, in any event.

Flynn's still here...

I haven't read the book, actually, although I believe most hooligan elements were somewhat overrated. Which isn't to say they didn't exist.

I also have very deep problems with the Taylor Report, which I thought was a huge overreaction.

I think in football, national pride is variable. A lot of supporters of really big clubs favor their club over their country - Liverpool supporters are probably the most well known for this. It also depends what country you are. If you're Brazilian, your country almost certainly comes first. If you're English, it may vary. If you're a Celtic support, you could have lived in Glasglow your whole life, but you might support the Republic of Ireland!

Many Arsenal fans - that's my club - these days feel pretty lukewarm about international football, especially when so many of Arsenal's players turn out for France. But if it's between Arsenal winning the European Cup or the USA winning the World Cup, I'd have to go with the USA...

Many Arsenal fans - that's my club - these days feel pretty lukewarm about international football, especially when so many of Arsenal's players turn out for France.

I disagree, when living there I found it equal. All my mates there were as mad for England as they were for West Ham, Arsenal or Chelsea.

FWIW, most of the expats I know are pretty bleh about international football. I've been to int'l matches and club matches at my local and it's a pretty different crowd.

This headline is inaccurate. ESPN is incorrect to report this. The article
in the NY Times did not say he's agreed to play, only that he's expected to.
As of 6PM today,per MLB, Buck Martinez has heard nothing from Arod. The WBC,
if played, should be played after the season, not before. A poster on this
thread hoped that Mariano Rivera would be injured in spring training. I'm
embarassed to even be reading a board that would allow such people to post.

Flynn's still here...

Sorry sir, forgot your new handle. So I'm whiffing like Mark Bellhorn when it comes to remembering who participated in that discussion of Among the Thugs Dang!

FWIW, most of the expats I know are pretty bleh about international football. I've been to int'l matches and club matches at my local and it's a pretty different crowd.

Stuart Pearce's redemption of sorts while playing for England I thought would have settled this one!

They still talk about 1966 for christsakes!!!

I just hope someone big who skipped out (such as Rivera) gets hurt during spring training while the WBC is going on. Now that would be funny/ironic. Hopefully it will be various Yankees & Red Sox too, given I'm a Blue Jay fan.

That is despicable.

Ken Davidoff in NY Newsday's Jan. 5 edition reports the following: Arod is
being pressured by both MLB and the Players Assn.(what a surprise) to play
in the WBC. Scott Boras confirms Alex has received requests from both sides
to revisit the matter, which he has agreed to do. He doesn't say when, but
other reports said Arod is on holiday with his family & is expected back next
week. Maybe ESPN will get it right next time.

Maybe ESPN will get it right next time.

At least we got to talk a little bit of soccer.

I know that its a limited sample size, but I could give a rats ass about the WBC.

International matches in football ( i won't call it the s-word ) rarely carry the viciousness of club rivalry matches, that is unless England is involved, in which case the it is a drunken melee. Atleast the football songs are better than the cricket ones!
Brazil-Argentina do have some fiery matches though..

I just hope someone big who skipped out (such as Rivera) gets hurt during spring training while the WBC is going on. Now that would be funny/ironic. Hopefully it will be various Yankees & Red Sox too, given I'm a Blue Jay fan.

That is despicable.

I am sticking my nose in an argument I am not involved in, but I think the sensitivity police is getting too worked up here. The comment seems to be one made in good humour, and really, the poster is just pointing out the possible irony of the situation. And to extend the argument, do you think it is more palatable that you wish that player X has a down year, or in a given situation, doesn't perform upto his perceived/established capabilities?

I know that March is huge for college hoops, but other than that nothing else in sports is really going on then.

I know that WWII was a huge historical event, but other than that noting much was really going on in Europe in the late '30s and early '40s.

Excellent, a chance to chime in about Among The Thugs - what a terrible book that was. An awful piece of fiction masquerading as fact. I don't believe a word about these supposedly organised Manc gangs, they never seemed that organised when you met them in real life. Can we blame Buford for the huge market in hoolie-porn too? If Eddie & Dougie Brimson & Cass Pennant never write another word I'll be a happy man.

I'm a club before country man too, I'd happily accept England never winning another game as long as Chelsea keep rolling along.

Oh, and Phil, I'd say the media do a damn sight better job of keeping 66 alive than most supporters do (with the exception of a certain song about World Cups and Wars...)

I am sticking my nose in an argument I am not involved in, but I think the sensitivity police is getting too worked up here. The comment seems to be one made in good humour, and really, the poster is just pointing out the possible irony of the situation. And to extend the argument, do you think it is more palatable that you wish that player X has a down year, or in a given situation, doesn't perform upto his perceived/established capabilities?

I agree. The moral outrage expressed here amuses me. Especially when certain fans think that it's a moral failing to mock the Yankees.

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with my quote tags?

I believe it's because your quote included the word "script\" (or rather, the phrase "douches and nondescripts").

If I am correct (and it still breaks the way it used to), I shall now demonstrate:

<blockquote>script</blockquote>

Wow, that's crazy! Thanks.

I agree. The moral outrage expressed here amuses me. Especially when certain fans think that it's a moral failing to mock the Yankees.

Its more of it being a crime against humanity for Yankee fans to wish ill upon Mariano Rivera.

And in all seriousness, I didn't see it as a joke. It was definitely wishing that Rivera gets injured since he's the only one who has vocally stated that he does not wish to play in the WBC because his team cannot win.

If I am correct (and it still breaks the way it used to), I shall now demonstrate:

*text removed

I don't think it would have worked anyways. I remember there was a problem about having 2 blockquotes in the same post, but it could have been fixed.

testing 1 2, testing

And the results are...

I guess it does work now.