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Thursday, April 06, 2006

Defensive Indifference

SG said last night that in Chatter that its so much fun to watch the Yankees hit, its a shame we have to watch them pitch and play defense.

Ain’t that the truth.

Newsday gets all witty with its headline saying the Yanks were behind the eight ball after a Cano error contributed to a five-run eighth inning, but in truth it never should have gotten there.

In reality it never should have been that close… Capt. Gold Glove got hit in the face on what should have been an inning-ending double play in the fourth, leading to a three-run outburst.

After that Wang, who had been pitch effectively but not great, pretty well fell apart and was relieved with two outs and the bases loaded by Sturtze v2.2 - who induced a pop foul to Jason Giambi to end the threat.

Sturtze was followed by Jaret Wright to start the sixth, which was followed by me going to bed. However, the box score shows that Wright didn’t completely gag the game away like I expected him to - 2 IP 3 H 4 R 1 ER 2/1 K/BB - but he did get saddled with the loss after allowing a leadoff triple over the head of Johnny Damon to Milton Bradley and then we were off to the races.

The Post’s Mike Vaccaro says it’s too early to panic:

It’s three games. It’s a small sample. It’s impossible to declare that the Yankees only know how to win games with mercy-rule-type leads. It’s impossible to declare anything just yet. But it’s not too early to watch, and wonder, and worry, even if it’s a slight, imperceptible worry.

Amen, brother, amen. 

One side note from the game - Michael Kay made me want to strangle him for the first time last night (in the interest of disclosure, it was the first time I saw a game on YES through Extra Innings) when he said that “through 2000, Frank Thomas was a lead pipe cinch to go to the Hall of Fame” but since then his career has just fallen apart and now he’d be “hard-pressed” to get elected. However, Singleton quickly corrected him and about a half-inning later Kay had changed his tune… it’s not baseball season if Michael Kay isn’t annoying me.

The Yanks travel today before hooking up with Anaheim for three over the weekend.

Let’s hope some extra groundballs are on the practice agenda before then.

Sean McNally Posted: April 06, 2006 at 08:27 AM | 44 comment(s)
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   1. Larry Mahnken Posted: April 06, 2006 at 11:36 AM (#1942698)
The problem with the Yankees in their first two losses is that they've allowed themselves to lose with the same players that cost themselves games last year -- Wright and Proctor.
   2. 5.00, .280/.320/.400, 4th outfielder Posted: April 06, 2006 at 12:05 PM (#1942762)
I have a game recap on my website which focuses on Joe Torre versus a blind squirrel.
   3. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: April 06, 2006 at 12:12 PM (#1942776)
As Michael Kay so astutely pointed out during the broadcast (and does he ever point out anything in a non-astute manner?), the real problem is that Wang didn't "pick up" The Jeter after he committed an error that kept an inning alive.

I thought it was clear that The Jeter was testing Young Wang, and even more clear that Wang failed that test.

I would expect him to be traded for Eric Milton by mid-June.
   4. TVerik Posted: April 06, 2006 at 01:46 PM (#1942979)
The tremendous problem with the Yankees defensively is that there's just nothing that can be done about it in-season. Seriously, other than shipping Cano out on the Columbus shuttle (and I am dubious about the effect that this would have on the infield defense - I don't think Robby's the problem), what moves can possibly be made? Everybody at every position hits well enough that they shouldn't be bench players.
   5. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: April 06, 2006 at 01:54 PM (#1943003)
what moves can possibly be made?

The only thing I can think of is to get a real 1B and put Giambi at DH, where he belongs.
   6. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 01:59 PM (#1943011)
The problem with the Yankees in their first two losses is that they've allowed themselves to lose with the same players that cost themselves games last year -- Wright and Proctor.

This is abjectly false, in that Wright pitched excellently last night. Wasn't overthrowing, kept his stuff down...If Wright pitches like that every time out, and the Yankees will have found themselves a great mid-long relief man.

The tremendous problem with the Yankees defensively is that there's just nothing that can be done about it in-season.

I'd differ here as well. There is no excuse for Jason Giambi playing the field at any time. Zero. Period. None. Giambi should be DH, and Phillips or replacement-level-1B-TBD should be playing 1B. Bernie is below replacement level as a hitter at DH, so this is an immediate upgrade.

The defense will be fine; Damon isn't going to screw the pooch on that may fly balls, and Jeter and Cano aren't horrendous defensively (feel free to contest that point all you want, but I think that that it's reasonable to term them "below average" rather than "downright bad".) BUT WHY ARE WE STARTING, BY FAR, THE WORST DEFENSIVE 1B IN BASEBALL?????
   7. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:00 PM (#1943016)
I hate you, Jerry Royster, I hate you and the boat your ancestors came in on. I shall have my venegence, one day, oh yes I will.
   8. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:04 PM (#1943026)
Fruit Loops just called Rivera a "top 10 player all time".
   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:13 PM (#1943051)
It’s three games. It’s a small sample. It’s impossible to declare that the Yankees only know how to win games with mercy-rule-type leads. It’s impossible to declare anything just yet. But it’s not too early to watch, and wonder, and worry, even if it’s a slight, imperceptible worry.
This seems to me precisely wrong. The Yankees still have Mariano Rivera. Even if he doesn't pitch in tie games in the bottom of the ninth, he'll be available in every other high-lev situation, and he's still probably the best in the world. The Yankees shouldn't need big leads to win, and I see no reason to worry about that particular issue.

The suggestion people have followed in this thread is that they'll need huge amounts of runs, not huge run differential.

Damon's defense so far has made the Sox look pretty smart for snubbing him. I expect he'll pick it up, though - he was perfectly competent in '04 and '05. What's up with Matsui? Eh, probably another three-game fluke to be quite that awful.
   10. Sean McNally Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:34 PM (#1943106)
The only thing I can think of is to get a real 1B and put Giambi at DH, where he belongs. ... here is no excuse for Jason Giambi playing the field at any time. Zero. Period. None. Giambi should be DH, and Phillips or replacement-level-1B-TBD should be playing 1B.


Well, there is this
From 2003-2005
DH - Giambi, J. - .217/.384/.414 in 517 ABs
1B - Giambi, J. - .274/.427/.563 in 691 ABs

I'm fairly certain Bernie outhits Giambi the DH and Phillips doesn't sniff Giambi the first baseman.
   11. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:42 PM (#1943121)
Well, there is this
From 2003-2005
DH - Giambi, J. - .217/.384/.414 in 517 ABs
1B - Giambi, J. - .274/.427/.563 in 691 ABs

I'm fairly certain Bernie outhits Giambi the DH and Phillips doesn't sniff Giambi the first baseman.


Those stats are biased by Giambi playing overwhelmingly in at DH during his parasite/tumor interval. I fail to see how playing the field transforms Giambi from a AAA hitter at his position to an All-Star.
   12. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:44 PM (#1943126)
Incidentally, I received this priceless email in my fantasy league today. It was in reply to my interest in trading for Jason Vargas of the Marlins:

"I frankly have no idea who he is, have never seen his face, but
read good things in Sports Illustrated about him so figured what the heck.
Dan tells me he's a very good pitcher, and I trust Dan, in spite of all of
my better judgments, so I won't be giving him up for "waiver wire" material.
I do like Johnny Damon, Travis Hafner, and BJ Ryan; if you have any interest
in Vargas, feel free to propose an offer that includes one of those players."


I found this funny.
   13. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: April 06, 2006 at 02:56 PM (#1943151)
I'm fairly certain Bernie outhits Giambi the DH and Phillips doesn't sniff Giambi the first baseman.

As Alex Rodriguez Fan points out, there are special circumstances surrounding Giambi's time as a DH.

As for Phillips, the Yankees don't have to use him. There are probably a dozen 1B that are free agents or currently sitting on the waiver wire that can hit a bit and play the position adequately. There's no excuse in this day and age to have a bad 1B.
   14. o_dawg Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:18 PM (#1943184)
That fantasy email is priceless. I assume Sizemore, Ortiz or Rivera aren't available?
Out of morbid curiousity, did you offer anything, or was it just a general inquiry?
   15. TVerik Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:22 PM (#1943190)
I fail to see how playing the field transforms Giambi from a AAA hitter at his position to an All-Star.



This may be literally true, but what if Jason believes this way, firmly? All indications are that he does.

Jeter and Cano aren't horrendous defensively


You knew that someone would quote that one. I think that Jeter in particular has been a worthy shortstop for the last few years, although he needs to hit as he does in order to make up some for his defense. But if his defensive skills actually take a tumble while his offense declines, he falls below replacement-level much more quickly than a more average defender.

I don't want to read too much into one play, but Jeter has struggled with range in the last few years, while if he gets to the ball, he does good things. If he continues to have the same range and his glovework begins to slide, we could easily have a "gots ta go" situation.
   16. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:24 PM (#1943191)
I am not sure why we are down on wright. Ok, I know why, but he gave you two innings of shutout ball, that is all we can ask.

Torre should have known when to quit.
   17. Robert Machemer Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:33 PM (#1943210)
Michael Kay made me want to strangle him for the first time last night... when he said...
Do you mean that last night was the first time you'd ever wanted to strangle him, or was what he said about Frank Thomas the first (of many) things he said just last night that made you want to strangle him?
   18. TVerik Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:33 PM (#1943212)
He's their fifth starter, Johnny. You have to assume that he can give you at least four or five good innings.
   19. RP Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:37 PM (#1943222)
Do you mean that last night was the first time you'd ever wanted to strangle him, or was what he said about Frank Thomas the first (of many) things he said just last night that made you want to strangle him?

Or maybe it was just the first such moment of the new season.
   20. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:46 PM (#1943239)
This may be literally true, but what if Jason believes this way, firmly? All indications are that he does.

Robby Cano believed that he could gorge all winter and lollygag around the infield, yet still be a regular on the Yankees. Just 'cause a player believes something doesn't make it so.

That being said, there's an obvious interest in keeping players content. But when a player's desires obviously go against the interest of the team, it's time to make Jason "believe" he can hit as a DH.
   21. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:47 PM (#1943242)
That fantasy email is priceless. I assume Sizemore, Ortiz or Rivera aren't available?
Out of morbid curiousity, did you offer anything, or was it just a general inquiry?


I made a reasonable offer....I think I offered Kris Benson for him or something like that.
   22. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 06, 2006 at 03:56 PM (#1943259)
I fail to see how playing the field transforms Giambi from a AAA hitter at his position to an All-Star.

Frank Thomas felt the same effect.
   23. TVerik Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:01 PM (#1943269)
I don't think Cano was the only one to eat too much in the offseason...

*glances meaningfully at photo of Michael Kay hanging in Erik's bedroom*
   24. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:08 PM (#1943293)
He's their fifth starter, Johnny. You have to assume that he can give you at least four or five good innings.

But he is only the fifth started to the doctors deem Pavano's buttock ready to play.
   25. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:09 PM (#1943294)
Frank Thomas felt the same effect.

An effect so strong that Kyle Farnsworth's head is still spinning from last night's double Thomas ripped as a DH.
   26. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:13 PM (#1943304)
Jesus, he really is the fifth starter, isn't he?

Who is next on the minor league food chain? Small again? DePaula?
   27. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:15 PM (#1943311)
Anyone else see the reports that Dotel might be ready in May?

Yummy. They need the help.
   28. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:22 PM (#1943317)
I would rather they not rush Dotel.

If he is ready by May, great, if not, that is ok too.

Nobody is running away with this division
   29. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:27 PM (#1943326)
I would rather they not rush Dotel.

If he is ready by May, great, if not, that is ok too.

Nobody is running away with this division



Is there any evidence that "rushing" TJS surgery can be harmful? If that's the case, then I'm all for taking extra time. But if its merely a matter of "can Dotel be effective?", why not see what he has? If Dotel has his upper-90's fastball back, he wont need too much command to be an asset.
   30. Daryn Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:42 PM (#1943360)
I think that fantasy email was appropriate. What he meant was that he wasn't going to give him up for a guy close in value to guys he can get off the waiver wire, but if you wanted to offer him Johnny Damon for Mark Buehrle and Vargas, he'd think about it. He'd rather use Vargas as a throw in to get a player he really liked than as the centerpiece of a deal that nets him a borderline player.
   31. Mike Emeigh Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:49 PM (#1943383)
To be fair to Proctor, he has other things on his mind:

Link.

-- MWE
   32. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:52 PM (#1943393)
BEHOLD! HIDDEN POST!
   33. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:54 PM (#1943398)
That was discussed in the chatter Mike, which is all the more reason torre should not have went to him in the ninth the other night.

Like I said in that chatter, Proctor is a nice guy, but so is my Uncle Teddy, and I do not want my Uncle Teddy pitching in a tie game in the ninth inning
   34. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: April 06, 2006 at 04:57 PM (#1943417)
Wow - why was Proctor in Oakland? They couldn't figure out a way to get him couple days off so he could be there?

I know that's technically not a "bereavement leave", but come on...
   35. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 05:34 PM (#1943550)
I don't think the Yankees would have forced him to be there if he didn't want to be.

Remember, they let Mo leave before game 1 of the 2004 ALCS, they were not sure if he would be back in time for game 1 (he arrived in the 5th inning)
   36. Sean McNally Posted: April 06, 2006 at 05:51 PM (#1943621)
Do you mean that last night was the first time you'd ever wanted to strangle him, or was what he said about Frank Thomas the first (of many) things he said just last night that made you want to strangle him?

Or maybe it was just the first such moment of the new season.


RP's right.. starting the new year off wrong.

- SMM
   37. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: April 06, 2006 at 05:57 PM (#1943646)
I think Giambi's Oakland DH/1B offenisve splits were large, too.
   38. Mattbert Posted: April 06, 2006 at 06:14 PM (#1943712)
RP's right.. starting the new year off wrong.

I was gonna say...you've been a Yankee fan for an awfully long time for this to be the first time you've wanted to strangle Kay.
   39. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: April 06, 2006 at 06:19 PM (#1943741)
Are there Yankee fans who like Kay? There's got to be, right?
   40. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: April 06, 2006 at 07:15 PM (#1943944)
My grandfather likes Kay, though he lost most of his hearing 15 years ago
   41. Rich Posted: April 06, 2006 at 08:54 PM (#1944283)
I blame Torre for the first loss, and Jeter for the second.
   42. Darren Posted: April 06, 2006 at 09:03 PM (#1944326)
I heard a radio sportscenter this morning that said something to the effect of "The Yankees defense cost them last night, as Derek Jeter made an error and Robinson Cano made a terrible error."

It sounds from the comments above as if Jeter was at least as bad.
   43. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: April 07, 2006 at 10:35 AM (#1945270)
FWIW, I think Kay's radio show is better than Mike and the Mad Dog.*




*WARNING: DAMMING WITH FAINT PRAISE
   44. Sean McNally Posted: April 07, 2006 at 11:04 AM (#1945330)
I heard a radio sportscenter this morning that said something to the effect of "The Yankees defense cost them last night, as Derek Jeter made an error and Robinson Cano made a terrible error."


Well, Cano's was right at him and Jeter "ranged" a bit to his left before fielding the grounder with his forehead... so I guess they were equally horrendous.
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