Boston's last two ALCS appearances have taught me not to write the team off until the other team swarms the field in celebration.

That said, I think this was a more important game for the Sox to take. Lester's been the one lights out pitcher they have since September. I assumed this would be a near-certain victory for Boston. Of course, this will mostly be moot if the Sox come out tomorrow and take Game 4. All things considered, though, the Rays have put themselves in a good position and haven't shown many signs of their youth and inexperience in this sort of atmosphere.

I would have favored Boston in game 3 but not in game 1 or 2. So they did about as I expected, just mixed them up a bit.

Something tells me that if Pedroia's hard hit ball actually goes over the monster in the first - then we might have had a different game. In any case it was a good ass kicking.

It would be nice if Ortiz, Ellsbury and Vagitek could resemble baseball players...

i haven't seen more than an inning at a time so far ... i was hoping to catch this game, but didn't realize it started at 4. i caught some of game 1 at the miller booth at the gabf (the baseball was a plus, their beer was a big minus) ... i would have liked to watch game 2, but they were showing college football ... saw the last few innings at a bar, but my attention was divided. so ... i'm just going to assume going down 1-2 was just so that i could watch more baseball!

Man, I got up at 6AM, dragged my ass out to the airport, sat behind a guy who'd spent the hours before the flight wallowing in pig excrement, flew to Boston, hauled ass out to the park...and that? That was awful.

One of these years, falling behind in the ALCS is going to burn the Red Sox. Hope it’s not this year!

It might be.

I really thought that the Rays, like Milwaukee a year ago, weren't quite ready to get over the hump. But every time this year it seemed that they were about to crash and burn, they rose up and won when they needed to win. Drop six of seven in the first week of September to let Boston come within 1/2 game of the lead, with two more in Fenway - and then blow a lead in the eighth and have to face Papelbon with the game and the division lead on the line? No problem. Drop back into a tie with the Red Sox a week later, after your ace (arguably; I think most people would prefer Kazmir to Shields) is hammered at home against your #1 competition, who is pitching *their* ace against your #4 starter the next night? No problem, again. Look horrible offensively at home in Game 1 of the ALCS, and then have that ace starter hammered again after you've beaten up their ace? No problem, once more.

Boston's going to have to beat the Rays, because I don't think they're about to beat themselves.

-- MWE

No offense to Sox fans, but I really really hope the Rays win it. What a terrific team to root for, Upton's earlier jackassery notwithstanding. As a more or less disintersted observer in every WS in my lifetime save one, a Rays win would be the most enjoyable, easily surpassing 2001 and 1985.

why would we be offended?

Coming on your board and openly rooting for your opponent. We're not all levski you know.

I like Sox Therapy, if nothing but for the pseudo intellectual puns. So its kind of disappointing to read the rather incoherent entry to this thread. For some reason unkown, I head Darren to a higher standard!

And I am caught on a cleft. A girl I am asking out for a date is an avid Red Sox fan ( and Michigan fan too! ). Seems like I might have to be less passionate about my pimping of the Rays!! Let it begin here :)

We're not all levski you know.

heh. has he been around recently? i like levski.

And our season rests on the fingertips of Tim "Big Game" Wakefield. So let it be written,
SO LET IT BE DONE!

And our season rests on the fingertips of Tim "Big Game" Wakefield. So let it be written,
SO LET IT BE DONE!

Exactly five years ago tonight, the ole redstockings found themselves in a predicament much like their current one. They had lost twain of the ALCS, against but one victory, as it is so this year. They had just lost game 3 at Fenway Park, which had been started by their ace, as it is so this year. They looked to an aged ball-wizard by the name of Timothy Wakefield, who answered their call and allowed a sole run in seven innings, and game 4 was theirs, as it is so this year.

edit: and exactly sixteen years ago tonight, young Tim won another LCS game

miserlou - it would take more than that for you to offend us mate.

Most Red Sox fans understand why everyone else is going for the rays - or they need their head examined.

Wake's effort last year in game 4 has me wearing the brown undies once again

There were several actual intellectual puns in this post, you just missed them.

I have a pair for G5 that I've decided I don't want to deal with the hassle of scalping. Face value is $100 so $200 takes them. I'm staying at the Park Plaza and know sweet #### all about Boston. If you want the pair AND you'd use them rather than just take a profit, email me at mc79hockey at gmail.com and they're yours. First email gets 'em.

Exactly five years ago tonight, the ole redstockings found themselves in a predicament much like their current one. They had lost twain of the ALCS, against but one victory, as it is so this year. They had just lost game 3 at Fenway Park, which had been started by their ace, as it is so this year. They looked to an aged ball-wizard by the name of Timothy Wakefield, who answered their call and allowed a sole run in seven innings, and game 4 was theirs, as it is so this year.

You probably don't want those parallels, given how both of those series ended.

the parallel only extends until tomorrow night

heh. has he been around recently? i like levski.

silently boycotting BTF, protesting kevin's ban

I look at the Rays and I cry. This is how good the Dbacks should've been, last year, this year... next year.
Except that the Rays are light years ahead defensively and their star potential players are actually playing like stars.
This year, it was supposed to be Rays vs. Dbacks in the WS...

Have we seen the beginning of the end for David Ortiz, btw?
Am not sure what his contract status is, but the guy looks like a ghost of his former self.
It's a shame, Ortiz and Manny are/were the only two Red Sox players that I enjoy/enjoyed watching.
Now I'm supposed to be watching the Greek Gargoyle of Walks and Bilbo Second Baggins? Pass...

I head Darren to a higher standard

Wow, without the net nanny I could have a field day with this...

Hmmm, what to say about that game, uh we got smoked. The guy who posted above about the Rays never fading, I think you might be onto something. Everytime it seems they'll choke they just keep coming back. I thought that might be this good....in 2009 or 2010, but not now.

Good to see we didn't use Byrd last game from the 5th on when we really needed him.

I hate to say this, but Papi really needs to start to hit or gasp, should they move him down the order??

Go Wake!

Misirlou,

It's OK to come here and announce that you're rooting for the Rays. Most of us welcome opposing fans' viewpoints, and wish our former Yankee fan foils spent more time here.

If the Rays win the series, however, it's generally considered Dobbsian form to show up and laugh in the "cry in our beer" thread.

I agree with Soshxx, its fun to have other viewpoints from other teams fans post here....they are mostly wrong, but still welcome...

All kidding aside, most of us can keep a level headed discussion about matters and if the Rays take the ALCS from the Sox, then I for one will be pulling for them in the series.

Huh. I must have missed this, but I confess to usually sticking to GC's and Sox Therapy threads... I'll bite--was there a specific reason for kevin's being banned?

On topic... Francona said in the post game that a reporter was getting ahead of himself asking whether or not Beckett was still the Game 6 starter. (Paraphrasing:) "He's still slated to start Game 6, but you're getting ahead of yourself... what game is it tomorrow? Game 4?"

The exchange gave me hope that they are leaning towards a 4-7 rotation of:

Wakefield
Matsusaka
Lester
Beckett/Johnny Wholestaff/Wakefield on full rest

It makes Wakefield winning tomorrow that much more important, though at this point I'd take a Game 7 happily given the circumstances. If they went with Garza, there is still the chance he loses it completely and we shell him in a Game 7.

[/grasping at straws]

Wakefield
Matsusaka
Lester

Hopefully, that'll do---grasping at aforementioned straws....

I feel reasonably confident that Lester will do fine in another start, and so will Matsusaka. I just don't see us winning a Beckett start like Game 2, and so that leaves us with hoping to win 1 of (possibly!) 2 Wakefield outings. Not something you want to bet the house on... unless you're underwater on your mortgage...

it was a real bummer that Cora didn’t move up to 2nd the poor throw Baldelli. But they were already down 5-1, so why bother trying to come back.

They were down 5-0. Varitek was on 3rd at the end of that play, scoring on Ellsbury's sac fly a few pitches later. I remember it because the people behind me in the bleachers were livid that Varitek didn't score on the overthrow. I told them there were no outs so there's no sense sending him, but one of 'em said "Yeah, there are no outs, which is EXACTLY why you send him." When he scored moments later they were pretty quiet, which was odd because the Red Sox scored a freakin' run. (Right now there are a lot of people heavily invested in hating everything Varitek does.)

The same people were calling for Cora to bunt Varitek over moments earlier... because, of course, when you're down 5 runs a one-run strategy is the right thing to do.

I was also disappointed that Cora didn't move up to second on the throw, but the throw was backed up very quickly. I don't know that he makes it unless he's running before it's obvious (from his angle) that the ball will be missed.

While the best scenario of course is that the Sox win the ALCS, I think the best scenario in which the Sox don't win the ALCS is as follows:

Dodgers take a series lead over the Phillies, and Sox lose the ALCS in 5, with Fenway fans in the late innings chanting "Beat LA! Beat LA!"

Fenway fans in the late innings chanting "Beat LA! Beat LA!"

That was so ALDS.

Have we seen the beginning of the end for David Ortiz, btw?

i think we are approaching the middle of the end.

Why do we want someone to beat LA? There's no Boston - LA rivalry. Just because of Manny? Even if you really hate the guy, that's also Nomar's best chance at a WS, and Derek Lowe's there, and most of the rest of the team is pretty likable.

I'm rooting for the Phillies, because I root for Philadelphia clubs, but why, in the moment of losing, should Sox fans turn to spite against a club that they've never cared about before?

EDIT: I meant there's no Sox-Dodgers rivalry. I guess it could be an extension of the basketball rivalry. Still, seems sorta tangential.

Ortiz has been very clear - too clear - that he's playing hurt, that the tendon injury he suffered midseason has not properly healed. He plans to have surgery when the season ends.

Now, it's possible that this injury isn't perfectly operable, and it's possible that playing through the injury is worsening things, but I haven't heard any reports to that effect. (And usually, if there's reason to worry, someone in the Boston press will pick up on it.) So I remain quite optimistic that we'll get our superstar DH back next season.

Dearest Tito -- please field this lineup for today's game, platoon advantages be damned:

2B Pedroia
RF Drew
LF Bay
3B Youkilis
DH Ortiz
SS Lowrie
1B Kotsay
C Anyone but Varitek
CF Crisp / Ellsbury if he stops driving the ball like he's driving Miss Daisy

He plans to have surgery when the season ends.

just like last season.

in my mind, the original Beat LA chant was not so much a statement that we hate LA but a statement that the opposition (the Sixers) has earned our respect. It was a tip of the cap, a compliment to the opposition. It's called being classy or being a good sport.

We would not tell just anyone to go beat LA. We wouldn't tell the White Sox or the Yankees to go beat LA.

Oh, ok. Basketball reference. It still seems to depend on the existence of a rivalry with the LA club, but whatever. I get what you're talking about now.

I'm rooting for the Phillies, because I root for Philadelphia clubs, but why, in the moment of losing, should Sox fans turn to spite against a club that they've never cared about before?

I always root against LA teams (except, oddly enough, the Angels). UCLA, USC, the Lakers, the Dodgers. All of them. Now I hope Nomar, in particular, and Manny do well, but it isn't enough to overcome my loathing of the club that spawned Garvey and LaSorda.

kevin's banned, and we're going to turn a Sox ALCS thread into a basketball thing? Is this an homage?

kevin is banned? how did that happen? i thought levski was just joking.

not an homage, just a pseudo-intellectual reference.

chrisp-

See discussion here, including Szym's explanation. They say there's a thread at the lounge.

Which thread in the lounge?

Which thread in the lounge?

Early in yesterday's lounge, which was one with the Boratesque title.

Yesterday I was extremely pessimistic. Today I am feeling a little bit better. We came back from 0-3 and 1-3 in LCS in the past. Maybe we will do the same this year. However, without any production from our DH, 1B, C and CF position, Rays seem light years ahead of us. If Wakefield cannot pull it off tonight, our season may well be over.

For tonight I'd:

Bench Ellsbury and start Coco
Bat Drew leadoff and bat Coco 8th
Start Lowrie for the rest of the series

I'd definitely start Ellsbury over Coco - this is just three bad games, nothing to panic about. If he was better a week ago, he's better now - especially against a finesse righty. There's probably a pretty good case to be made that Coco is better than Ellsbury overall, and that'd be reasonable, but I don't think Ellsbury's 0-fer in the series should get him benched yet. The kid's streaky.

I do agree that I don't see a lot of reason to bat Ellsbury at the top of the order - some collection of Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Drew, and Bay should bat 1-5.

Given that we don't have any groundballers on the staff, I agree about Lowrie.

There's probably a pretty good case to be made that Coco is better than Ellsbury overall, and that'd be reasonable,

I suspect that case would start with the fact Coco outhit Jacoby in every way in 2008.

If Wakefield cannot pull it off tonight, our season may well be over.

I guarantee the season will not be over if the Red Sox lose tonight.

I'd like to see a Little League style lineup like

1. DP
2. KY
3. Ortiz
4. Bay
5. Drew
6. Lowrie
7. Kotsay
8. Crisp
9. Captain

but I'm afraid Francoma is stuck on Ellsbury playing and leading off

Lineup is out, Smiling Joe in #46 was spot-on except that Coco is hitting 7th not 8th

Drew needs to bat higher...opening or 3rd. Papi needs to settle into 5th or 6th spot right now. Varitek...well there is no magic strong enough for this. Here's just hoping the one game he collects 2 hits are one which we have runners on at the same time and it really counts for something.

I'm concerned, but nowhere near panicking. I do however miss Manny's inherent casualness when he bats; that cat just never seems to panic...ever.

I'd definitely start Ellsbury over Coco - this is just three bad games, nothing to panic about.

Well, four, and "bad games" = "hitless games", but who's counting?

Remember what I wrote in #52, well I lied. Down 3-0 in the first, now I'm panicking....

And now the arse kicking is almost complete....

TV announcer comment of the night, if not of the year, just before Crawford's 10th or 11th hit of the night just a minute ago:

"It started out so well for Wakefield---he struck out Iwamura to start the game..."

How can you not love it?