Beckett: Waiting for Good Throws
I’ve heard a bunch of theories about why Beckett is doing so poorly this year. Here are a few, feel free to add your own:
--He is tipping his pitches. I have to say, when he was getting absolutely pounded by Toronto, it certainly looked to me like the Jays knew what was coming. At the time, I had thought they might be stealing signs, as they often seem to look like they know what’s coming against the Sox. Tipping pitches seems to be a a catchall explanation for any string of bad outings by a good pitcher, so this may be the same thing.
--David Ortiz has suggested, in a not so subtle way, that the Red Sox pitchers (Beckett in particular) aren’t making adjustments. He pointed out that Wells hit 3 HR off the same pitch, whereas Papi would never seen the same pitch that he hit for a HR again (in a game).
--When he got traded to the Red Sox, Beckett talked a bit about how great it would be to have a veteran like Schilling around to learn from. Perhaps he is taking this a little too far, though. Schilling is a pretty unique guy in that he gives up scads of HRs, but manages to still do well because he rarely walks anyone. He also manages to keep his pitchcounts low despite being a big strikeout guy. Basically, Schilling works inside the strikezone far more than other pitchers. This might just be a style that doesn’t suit Beckett as well.
--Something to do with the Red Sox on the road. Both Schilling (13) and Beckett (16) have given up ALL of their HRs on the road. Maybe Varitek’s circadian rythms are affected when he stays at hotels, turning him into an 0-2 fastball calling zombie.
--Pitching through blisters rather than going on the DL? That might explain why he’s still got the velocity but lacks the precision to get batters out.
--NL to AL is particularly hard on power pitchers with horrible facial hair?
Darren
Posted: June 10, 2006 at 12:12 AM |
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2. Beckett was coming from an extreme pitchers park and going to a good hitters park.
3. Poor OF defense. Coco has missed much of the year and Wily Mo is not a true CF. Plus Manny being Manny. IF defense is equivalent to what he had last year. Especially the left side, where it is exactly equal.
Since Beckett's ERAs were in the 3.50 range, moving to Fenway probably should put him around 4.50. I don't think he'll finish with a 5.27 ERA, thats just where it stands after a really bad start. He'll have some good starts and bring it down.
The Rallymonkey projection system had Beckett at 3.99 coming into the year. His K-W projection, prorated to his current 70 innings, is 60-24. Actual is 55-23. Hits allowed is projected 69, actual 67. That's damn good projectin if I do say so myself.
The HR rate is way off though. He's given up 16, I had him projected for 17 in 168 innings. He better allow just one more the rest of the year or he'll make me look like a monkey.
I don't think there's anything seriously wrong with Beckett. He's only off in one part of his game, odds are he'll pitch better as the year goes on (especially when he gets to face the NL in interleague). He'll give the Sox what they should have realistically expected. If they were expecting another Pedro, well he just ain't.
He's the Jeff Weaver of the Red Sox. Does he have a brother? Maybe if they call his bro up that will inspire him. May not be worth it though if you have to pitch a brother without an MLB arm.
I don't understand some of the stuff above. You say the move to Fenway should push his ERA from 3.50 to 4.50, but your projection system says 3.50 to 3.99. Am I missing a PF or something in there?
I also disagree with your point #3--the defense is not going to affect HR much, Wily Mo notwithstanding.
Haren made the conversion well enough.
Based on the title alone, Furtado should close this thread.
The 1.00 ERA rise was off the top of my head, is just a guess as to how the typical pitcher moving from Florida to Fenway would do. Lookin more closely that guess is probably a bit high.
The projection for Beckett is more precise, I think the system sees him as better than a 3.50 pitcher because of his peripherals. To be exact, if I had him staying in FLA his ERA projection would have been 3.38
Earlier this year I was tempted to demagnetize the flash drive it sits on. My fantasy team has since pulled into third place, and some credit is due.
I didn't need any system to tell me Johan Santana would be great (though not $47 great, what I paid for him) but David Bush hwas a useful find, and the projection for Chris Young has worked out pretty well.
power pitchersbaseball players.exhibit #1001 on why the NL is the weaker league.
Beckett's stuff isn't really what it's been advertised. He seems to rarely throw his curveball for strikes nor does he have a good changeup to my eye.
AL
Baltimore-- pitchers' park
Boston-- hitters' park
Chicago-- hitters' park
Cleveland-- pretty neutral, I think.
Detroit-- pitchers' park
Kansas City-- hitters' park
Los Angeles-- neutral to hitter's park
Minnesota-- hitters' park
New York-- neutral to hitters' park
Oakland-- pitchers' park to neutral
Seattle-- pitchers' park
Tampa-- hitters' park
Texas-- hitters' park
Toronto-- hitters' park
That's 7 hitters' parks and 7 that are more or less fair.
NL:
Atlanta-- neutral
Arizona-- hitters'
Chicago-- hitters'
Cincinnati- hitters'
Colorado-- hitters'
Florida-- pitchers'
Houston-- hitters'
Los Angeles-- pitchers'
Milwaukee-- neutral
New York-- pitchers'
Philadelphia-- hitters'
Pittsburgh-- neutral
St Louis-- neutral
San Diego-- pitchers'
San Francisco-- pitchers'
Washington-- pitchers'
In the NL it's 6 out-and-out hitters' parks, 4 neutral, and 6 pitchers'parks. So the parks aren't bigger in the AL after all.
Moral? If I was a free-agent pitcher who expected to ever be a free-agent again, I would never sign in the AL if the money was remotely similar; I'd sign with the highest NL bidder, period.
Pitchers' park
I'm still hopeful for Beckett because he can still show ace-quality stuff, but at some point in your twenties you have to start commanding your plus pitches consistently. I'm still at a loss as to how that fastball can get hit so hard unless they know it's coming, and so I'm still hopeful that his problems can be fixed through a mix of better preparation, better in-game adjustments, and keeping track of any movements that tip off the batter as to the pitch coming.
Very true. Leave us remember, however, that this is the lad's age-26 season.
Going into HIS age-26 season, Mr. Schilling had a career total of 18 wins and an ERA+ of 117 (if I did the math correctly).
Young Mr. Beckett started the year with 23 more career wins, almost 240 more career IP... and an ERA+ of 117.
So it is quite reasonable for us all to join MCoA and be hopeful for Beckett.
--Mr. Sunshine
It's pretty apt. The Sox paid big money for Clement, Renteria and Wells, and the ROI has been horrible. Only Wells has been even remotely near advertised, and Renteria isn't even on the team anymore.
For that money, they could have resigned Pedro and had plenty left over for other players. But this wasn't really about money, probably more some facile want to win without "difficult" players. You know, being a manager without actually managing. And probably some inside politicking by Fatty McBushlover too.
If you want to have some regrets about the Pedro negotiations, I think you have to go back to early 03, when the Sox had a $17 mil option on Pedro, which they picked up almost 1 year early and got exactly nothing in return. That was the last time they had any leverage and they squandered it.
Plus, Pedro's hair sucks now.
Uh...
2005 103/102
2004 96/97
2003 96/97
2002 100/100
2000 104/103
1999 91/92
1998 98/96
1997 99/97
1996 102/101
Seems more of a slight pitcher's park, with occasional seasons of being a hitters' park.
This is consistent with prior outings, most notably his recent outing in NY. And that's why I don't think he's tipping his pitches. If he can't command the curve or the change, his only option for strikes is the fastball. Hitters don't have to know the next pitch is a fastball; they just need to wait for the inevitable fastball to come, and crush it.
Didn't Derek Lowe have the same home/road issues in his final years in Boston? Given what we've hears about Lowe's, er, nightlife - which I'm guessing was much more prevalent on the road than it was when he was near his family - I'm guessing that the young Mr. Beckett is having a bit too much fun on the road.
I do find Beckett to be incredibly frustrating. I have trouble, when I watch a guy with a million dollar arm like that, accepting such crappy results. I'm not really sure what it means for me to not "accept" his results - mainly, it means I find excuses to dislike Beckett and say mean things about him online sometimes. I don't think those actions have any effect on Beckett, nor do I wish them to. I don't advocate for the Red Sox to do anything differently with Beckett - clearly, the chance of him harnessing that million dollar arm is very real, and the Sox should keep him pitching in the hopes that he gets his five-cent head around it. (sorry, that's me not "accepting" him.)I disagree. Beckett's done a perfectly good job of "pitching to the score" - he's 7-3 despite an ERA well below league average.
He needs to figure out a way to only allow 3-4 runs when he doesn't have his good command, and he needs to have his good command a hell of a lot more often. I don't think either of those problems are related to run support.
*groans, rolls eyes*
Yeah I agree. Thats a better way of saying what I meant. Also, I think he will.
Kevin Millar?
I hate Rudy Seanez right now. Julian tavarez too.
The bullpen is ######' killing me, though. Tavarez, Seanez, Delcarmen, and Van Buren all look like big league pitchers in about 1 of every 2 innings. That, as evidenced by the last couple games, isn't nearly enough to help the team win. It gives me some hope htat Delcarmen might eventually learn another tick of command and be a good reliever, but that's not much to go on for the team right now.
David Riske has been relatively good since coming off the DL, and I think he's earned the #3 spot in the bullpen at this point. By default, but as Homer said, that's the two sweetest words in the English language. He was the guy I wanted to at least be warming while Tavarez was blowing the game on Tuesday.
The let's turn Craig Hansen into a starter but not tell anyone about it experiment has kinda backfired at this point - if he'd just been pitching every 2nd or 3rd day in Pawtucket, going an inning or two and refining his fastball and slider, he'd be ready for high-lev work in the majors now, I think. He needs to get ready fast.
He worked out of a bases loaded, one out jam in the third and a 2nd and 3rd, one out situation in hte fourth. He was able to get the big outs and keep the team close. The problem was that he didn't pitch good and created situations like htat to pitch out of.
He also left hte game with "an undisclosed injury." I think I've been getting so caught up in the mild optimism of liking so much of the roster that I didn't pick out the obvious Red Sox explanation for bad pitching - he's an injured veteran and they're not putting him on the DL! So, perhaps Clement neither ontologically sucks nor lacks testicular fortitude, but rather has improperly diagnosed or improperly treated physical problems.
Not by my math. Red Sox have played 63 g, Josh has 75 IP, so he's on pace for 193 on the year.
He's given up 44 earned runs, so to finish at 4.50, he needs to allow 52 runs in his last 118 innings, an ERA of 3.97.
Since that's almost exactly what my pre-season projection for him was, I'd say its likely. But I won't say its bloody likely. I don't have that much confidence in my projections.
I didn't think the old guy would make it through 2003 the way they used him. Timlin's like an old Chevy truck with a 350 motor.
I'll take July 23 in the Beckett gets DL'ed pool. The evidence:
1) He can't command his breaking and offspeed stuff for shite
2) He's a pitcher on the Red Sox
3) He's exactly the sort of dumbass who'd cover up an injury that makes him a bad pitcher
4) He's hardly got a clean medical history
Clement has shown no tendency before this year to suck with runners on, and he has pitched well in the clutch in his last two starts.
I think he's hurt and thus not a good pitcher. I don't think we need anything more complicated than that.
Yes. Last night he had thrown about 12 balls in 14 pitches or something, too lazy to look, and Hunter stupidly hacked at his first offering after he had walked the bases loaded and hit a hard ground ball for a DP to end the inning. I think the same kind of thing happened last start also, to get him out of one big jam. He didn't hunker down and make the tough pitches. He lucked out of the inning. He has not pitched well this year excepting a couple games maybe, he's had some results that were OK, more or less by luck. I don't like his make-up. He can't make big pitches when he has to on any kind of reliable basis for a year now; he misses the glove by 3 feet, after hitting it the first two pitches to that batter. A good pitcher smells blood and gets those outs. Watch the games. He's a mess.
I watched a million games in my life, and it's really clear to me that a big part of Clement's problems are make-up.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/06/theo_talks_trad.html
I'd be willing to buy the makeup explanation if Clement hadn't put up some very good seasons in the not-so-distant past. He's not some jittery rookie getting rattled out there. He's pitched seven full seasons in the majors. Some of those seasons were pretty good. If Clement's problems are to be attributed to makeup, it's incumbent upon the person making that argument to explain a few things.
1. What happened in Chicago? You can't chalk up Clement's performance to Wrigley being a pitchers' park. Did he just get lucky for three years? Did he learn to be nails from Don Baylor or Dusty Baker or somebody?
2. How do you lose makeup? If there's no alternative explanation for #1, then Clement's good years as a Cub indicate that he had good makeup at that time. Was taking that liner off the head down at the Trop his undoing? Did it make him forget how to sack up and make big pitches? My default assumption is that you're supposed to get tougher and more wiley with age, not less. So something unusual must be going on here.
3. What are the characteristics of good or bad makeup that we as fans can identify from the vantage point of the stands or our couches? It can't just be pitching poorly. Is it body language? How do we accurately evaluate makeup if it's not an easily observable trait?
4. What's the chain of causation? Does a pitcher throw like crap because he has no confidence or does he have no confidence because he's throwing like crap?
Looks like it'll be the #3 spot in those other Sox' bullpen now.
At least in his tenure in Boston, I think it started as the latter. The trouble is I think he's been throwing like crap for so long that it's starting to become the former. His lack of confidence is a hole that is now so deep he cannot climb out of it.
Somebody throw him a rope.
Its a better pitchers league. Instead of getting to strike out a pitcher, he's now facing people like Travis Hafner and Jason Giambi.
I don't think he's got the same stuff he used to. Haven't seen enough of him, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but he throws 89-91 on the fastball with a good slider. Either he doesn't have another good pitch or he can't control it. That's the profile of a guy who will struggle vs lefties, and is best used in middle relief (like David Riske).
I thought he threw harder in Chicago. Checking his splits, he's so-so vs righties this year (.272 BA, 31-17 K_W in 31 IP) but vs lefties he's allowed a .307 BA, 21 BB and only 12 K in 34 IP.
I don't know about the middle relief part (that's that makeup business again), but Riske doesn't have a problem with lefties, at least based on 3 year splits.
For a RHP to pitch effectively against lefties, usually you need either a good changeup or an overhand curve, or overpowering stuff.
I don't think Clement has any of that. Maybe he was more overpowering with the Cubs, I don't know.
The larger problem I have with attributing Clement's success as a Cub to the weaker offensive NL is that it ignores the concept behind ERA+. A guy who's capable of pitching significantly better than his league average should be able to reproduce something like that success in a different league, even though his raw numbers might suffer. Is it more difficult to post a 100 ERA+ in the AL than the NL? It shouldn't be. You just look better doing it in the NL.
The other problem with the league change explanation is that Clement didn't appear to take advantage of those weak NL lineups until he got to Chicago. He pitched three full seasons (2 for San Diego, 1 for Florida) before becoming a Cub. And those first three seasons were pretty uninspiring, especially considering Qualcomm and Pro Player were better places to pitch than Wrigley. Clement is not a pitcher who dominated the NL for years and then hit the skids when he switched leagues. He's shown he's capable of pitching pretty badly in the NL, too.
I suppose one way to get a better sense of how much Clement has suffered from moving to the AL would be to track his performance versus pitchers hitting against him in the NL. As a rough guide, you could tabulate pitchers' OPS against him and what percentage of his total Ks were pitchers. If those two numbers differed wildly from the league norm, that'd be interesting to think about.
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