BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: Delcarmen for Johnson: Where Do I Sign?

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Sunday, May 24, 2009

Delcarmen for Johnson: Where Do I Sign?

It really boggles my mind that the Red Sox--a team that is so obsessed with depth--has reportedly turned down a chance to trade from their tremendous bullpen depth to sure up the infield corners. In case you didn’t know, according the Peter Gammons and WEEI, the Sox turned down a Manny Delcarmen/Nick Johnson swap. I just can’t fathom how they didn’t jump at that opportunity. First off, Delcarmen has generally ceded his setup role to Ramon Ramirez. His gmLI (the leverage of the situations that he’s brought into) is 1.00. He’s not being used for important innings this year, often being the first guy called on when a starter falls apart in the 5th.

Second, the Red Sox have a very real need for depth at the 1B/3B area. Ortiz and Lowell are both coming off surgery. Lowell looks like he could break down at any moment and Ortiz looks like he already did. Meanwhile, Youkilis just spent 2 weeks on the DL, and was replaced by a defensively (and offensively) challenged Jeff Bailey. Nick Johnson would fill that hole nicely. He’s got a .430 OBP and is projected to put up a .400 for the rest of the season. At the cost of a guy you’re using in middle relief, he’s a great pickup. Hopefully, a few more days of watching Ortiz will make the Sox reconsider.

Darren Posted: May 24, 2009 at 10:32 AM | 21 comment(s)
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1. Darren

Posted: May 24, 2009 at 09:46 AM (#3191143)

According to the guys on SOSH, Ortiz told WHDH that he came back too early from his wrist injury and it's been hurting all year. DL him, get Johnson--FOR CRYING OUT LOUD DO IT!

2. Raskolnikov Posted: May 24, 2009 at 09:57 AM (#3191148)

There's something wrong with Ortiz. He's not even at the pre "Big Papi" level, when he was with Minny. Power can deplete and bat speed can decline (see Hafner), but not completely disappear the way it has with Ortiz. There is something physically wrong with him.

3. Darren

Posted: May 24, 2009 at 09:58 AM (#3191150)

STEROIDS!

4. Dan Posted: May 24, 2009 at 10:02 AM (#3191153)

Another option I like would be trading for Holliday if/when the A's decide to pack it in. You could DH Bay, or even get him some time at first base, and get his inconsistent defense out of LF.

5. Dan Posted: May 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM (#3191154)

Re: Ortiz, it's obvious there's something wrong. He can't even come close to turning on a fastball, even high 80s fastballs. He had about as much chance of squaring up one of Pelfrey's fastballs last night as I would have.

6. tfbg9 Posted: May 24, 2009 at 10:59 AM (#3191182)

There's some kind of Victor Martinez to the Sox rumor out there as well. He'd be a "rental", right?

7. tfbg9 Posted: May 24, 2009 at 11:00 AM (#3191183)

I don't want Nick Johnson. We have enough cripples...

8. Zuvella! Posted: May 24, 2009 at 11:22 AM (#3191197)

If David Ortiz is, in fact, telling a radio station that his wrist is not right, as I read on another thread here, then the Sox have to dl him immediately. Even as a Yanks fan, I find watching him depressing. His struggles are bad for the fanbase and obviously for the team.

9. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: May 24, 2009 at 01:36 PM (#3191376)

There's some kind of Victor Martinez to the Sox rumor out there as well. He'd be a "rental", right?

$7 million club option for '10.

If David Ortiz is, in fact, telling a radio station that his wrist is not right, as I read on another thread here,

I have not heard that. In fact, Rob Bradford was on this morning and said the wrist is not the problem.

10. Dan Posted: May 24, 2009 at 03:09 PM (#3191710)

Nick Johnson was a late scratch for today's game, though the Washington Post says it's "stomach discomfort".

11. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: May 24, 2009 at 05:32 PM (#3191844)

According to the guys on SOSH, Ortiz told WHDH that he came back too early from his wrist injury and it's been hurting all year.

I just watched 7's sports segment and they played a bit from the Ortiz interview. They teased that there was going to be more on their Sunday night sports show, but there was no mention of the wrist. So either they are burying the lede or SoxScout is wrong and there is nothing about the wrist.

12. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: May 24, 2009 at 10:36 PM (#3192010)

Update:

I just watched the interview and Ortiz was talking about last season when he said he came back too early.

13. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: May 25, 2009 at 11:39 AM (#3192252)

I'd rather see the Sox turn Brad Penny into a bat than Delcarmen. The Sox are in a very nice place with Manny: they're paying him a little more than the minimum this year and have the option pay him less than he's worth for each of the next three years, but no commitment if he turns into a lemon. That's worth more to me than ~300 PAs of Johnson.

I'd bet there's a way to launder Penny through a contending team with rotation issues and turn him into Nick the Stick or someone like Branyan or Huff. If we're giving up a guy who's going to be an asset for years, I want coming back someone whom we'll control for a number of years (Laporta? Jake Fox?).

14. Darren

Posted: May 25, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3192651)

There's no bat being offered for Brad Penny, that we know of. Manny being in a very nice place is why he's an attractive trade chit.

You want LaPorta? Start with Buchholz or Bowden.

15. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!) Posted: May 25, 2009 at 06:01 PM (#3192659)

This isn't a snide question, but why would anyone give up anything for Penny? He's making $5 million this year, has an ERA north of 6 and is striking out less than 5/9. If there's something that makes him an appealing player to pick-up in a deal, I'm not seeing it.

16. Raskolnikov Posted: May 25, 2009 at 06:18 PM (#3192676)

I would love to see Penny on the Mets, but then I've always liked Penny.

Also, if the Mets can't get OBP Jesus on the cheap, I would love to see him on the Red Sox.

Put the Greek God and him back to back, and watch the opposing pitchers scream in frustration. Heck, between the two of them, I bet they could burn 10-15 pitches off Joba every time they face each other.

17. Darren

Posted: May 25, 2009 at 07:22 PM (#3192787)

RB,

I agree that I wouldn't want to shell out much of anything for Penny. But to answer your question--the attraction to Penny is that he's really gotten better since a few rough starts. Last 5 g, 30 IP, 21 K, 7 BB, 1 HR.

18. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: May 26, 2009 at 12:51 AM (#3193388)

There's no bat being offered for Brad Penny

Nor is there likely to be one. Any team looking to get Penny thinks itself a contender and a contender wouldn't have a bat available the Sox would be interested in. What I meant by "launder Penny through a contending team" was that the Sox should find a third team that needs a pitcher and use the piece they pick up to go after a 1B/DH type (or keep him and trade one of their own, it doesn't really matter, the talent is fungible).

This isn't a snide question, but why would anyone give up anything for Penny?

For one he's averaging 92.8 on his fastball, just off his 93.3 career mark. Stuff matters, especially over small sample sizes. Two, he's only had two bad starts out of nine. Five have been quality starts and he missed by two outs in one, one run in another. Three, Penny's never had a high strikeout rate. His success has come by keeping his walk and homer rates low. In his last five starts, those numbers are 2.1 and 0.3.

19. OCD SS Posted: May 26, 2009 at 06:58 AM (#3193446)

You want LaPorta? Start with Buchholz or Bowden.

Maybe this would be better in the other thread, but does anyone see these guys as equivalent? Even with similar numbers in AAA I think Buchholz has a ton more trade value. I would probably dump Bowden for good bat without a second thought, but I wouldn't give up Clay for anything short of elite talent.

Put the Greek God and him back to back, and watch the opposing pitchers scream in frustration. Heck, between the two of them, I bet they could burn 10-15 pitches off Joba every time they face each other.

Nah, the first part of that doesn't work. Joba doesn't need to burn that many pitches when he hits Youks with a pitch.

20. plim Posted: May 26, 2009 at 10:27 AM (#3193706)

Nah, the first part of that doesn't work. Joba doesn't need to burn that many pitches when he hits Youks with a pitch.

maybe nick johnson can learn the joba fist pump from aubrey huff and get plunked with the next pitch?

21. OCD SS Posted: May 27, 2009 at 06:59 AM (#3195200)

So the Sox turned down MDC for Johnson, and according to Edes the Nats would want Bowden for him...

Their other dumping ground is the Mets; how low can the Sox go and still top the Mets' best offer?

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Sunday, May 24, 2009

Delcarmen for Johnson: Where Do I Sign?

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