My recollection of Corsaletti in Wilmington is that he wasn't much of a defender and that was in LF. I hadn't even noticed - is he mostly playing CF in Portland? Without having seen him in a couple of years, I'd vote not a legit CF defender.

I think he's been mixing among the OF spots lately but was playing LF when Bell was healthy.

- I'd say Bowden's stuff is better than mediocre. Especially this year.

- Bard has been putting up un-real, all-world numbers, and the laudatory reports we're hearing have matched that performance. He's been 96-98, topping out at 99, with a hammer breaking ball.

- The Sox have had terrible luck with players in Greenville this year. Austin Bailey tore his labrum in his first professional start, Nick Hagadone has an injury requiring TJ surgery, and Anthony Rizzo has cancer.

I should have mentioned Rizzo. That's awful news.

Daeges looks like a Matt Stairs clone. Yes it was Lancaster but he had over 75 XBH there last year.

The Bard move was very smart. Maybe the Sox should move the fence back in Lancaster if they are that worried (perhaps rightly so) about its effects on their young hurlers.

I want to ask the hardest of the hard core here (since I rarely have delved deeply into minor league ball until recently): is this the best Boston farm system ever?

Do you mean this regime's farm system over the last 5 years or the farm system as it is right now?

Maybe the Sox should move the fence back in Lancaster if they are that worried (perhaps rightly so) about its effects on their young hurlers.

kevin says: "bollocks! lancaster will grow hair on their chests and make them real men."

The Sox don't own the ballpark, so moving the fences probably isn't an option.

And they're moving next year to Salem in the Carolina League, so it's not really worth discussing.

I hope Dustin Richardson continues his development. He may be our answer to the continued mediocreness of Javier Lopez.

Actually, Darren, we were talking about Bowden and Buchholz roughly on equal terms early last year. He was the #2 pitching prospect in the organization. So it's not like he's sneaking up on us.

And Bard got off to a strong start in Portland. He struck out the side in a 1 inning relief appearance.

So, when are we going to start talking about Michael Bowden as a top pitching prospect?

Did we ever stop? I've always like Bowden, and even after he scuffled in Pawtucket last year, I thought his performance in Lancaster warranted cutting him some slack, given his age.

Word is that is stuff isn’t all that impressive, but the results sort of speak for themselves.

I've heard him compared to Ian Kennedy, with the idea that his stuff plays up because of his command. I think he has better stuff than Kennedy overall, but I don't think any of it is supposed to be overpowering.

I tend to think that Bowden will be a good #3 starter type. Whereas Masterson has 2 better pitches that would allow him to be effective out of the 'pen, I think Bowden's strength will be his ability to eat innings.

I hate to say it, but Jeff Suppan?

- Bard has been putting up un-real, all-world numbers, and the laudatory reports we're hearing have matched that performance. He's been 96-98, topping out at 99, with a hammer breaking ball.

is there any talk of putting bard back in the rotation?

Has anyone heard about the weather in Lancaster? I heard an interview with someone in Lancaster management or coaching staff that said the wind was blowing in an unusual amount of time to start the season.

Jeff Suppan: Innings eating, slightly above average pitcher at his peak, i.e. somebody who can be very valuable.

Lancaster had a game canceled due to high winds earlier in the year...

Masterson is now headed to Pawtucket, not Portland.

Innings eating, slightly above average pitcher at his peak,

...heads up baserunner.

Kevin Goldstein was saying that a scout who saw Bowden this year said that his stuff had taken a major leap forward. I've heard reports of his fastball hitting 94 this year, and that his curveball is much improved.

I'd be very happy if Bowden turned out to be a "good #3"/average to slightly above guy.

Also, does Bard have more than the fastball and breaking ball? I thought he was considered reliever material because of the lack of a third major league pitch. My memory may well be off, though...

My recollection of Corsaletti in Wilmington is that he wasn't much of a defender and that was in LF. I hadn't even noticed - is he mostly playing CF in Portland? Without having seen him in a couple of years, I'd vote not a legit CF defender.

Who knows, I suppose, other than from a scouting standpoint, what kind of CF he is, but I like the idea of trying him there anyway. His UPside is as a 4th OF, and if that's going to happen, he'll need to be able to play CF. Worth a shot.

Jeff Corsaletti has always raked against RHP's. Maybe he'll carve out a Catalonotto-like career. I doubt it though.

He's got the name for it, Temple. That's almost as confusing as the Alex Gonzalez/Alex Gonzalez thing.

lso, does Bard have more than the fastball and breaking ball? I thought he was considered reliever material because of the lack of a third major league pitch. My memory may well be off, though...

I think the quality of the breaking ball that he's been showing is new as well. Previously he was a guy who could throw high 90's late into the game, but otherwise he just had an average slider. The Sox hoped that he'd pick up enough pitches to be a good starter based on his arm.

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but Suppan's career is that of a #1-#2 starter, when you look at it compared to what the average guys in those slots do. 100 ERA+ for a starter is safely above average and 200 IP/year is elite. He had a bad couple months for the Sox and they decided not to pick up his very reasonable option. I would love love love if Bowden could match his career.

I think the quality of the breaking ball that he's been showing is new as well. Previously he was a guy who could throw high 90's late into the game, but otherwise he just had an average slider. The Sox hoped that he'd pick up enough pitches to be a good starter based on his arm.

If he really had the strength and durability to throw high 90s late into games, hopefully he can translate that to a 2 IP setup guy, or a guy available on back-to-back-to-back days.

Well, Dan, he was North Carolina's stud starter when they make a run at the title in '06. So, at least then, he showed the ability to go deep into games.

Andrew Miller was really their stud starter and they showed more trust in Robert Woodard down the stretch than they did Bard.

Templeusox is right in the sense that Miller was UNC's top starter in 2006 but both he and Bard struggled in the postseason. Well, Bard did until the final game of the CWS where he went I think something like 8 good innings. Despite the good results, that was a game that really lowered my expectations for him because his breaking pitches were awful. They're were flat and the five or so that he threw were all creamed for hits, which led to his coach forbidding him from throw anymore, causing him to throw eighty fastballs in a row. How was a guy with absolutely no secondary stuff going to be a successful major league pitcher?

In his current version, I can sort of buy the report that his curveball is good, even if minor league reports can be unreliable at times. In college, he threw mainly a very flat slider so I guess that's been junked and maybe the curve's come along.

Bowden with another great outing: 7 IP, 5 K, 0 BB, 0 ER. He's doing his best to prove that he's got nothing left to prove at this level. Bard also threw 2 scoreless innings.

Andrew Miller was really their stud starter and they showed more trust in Robert Woodard down the stretch than they did Bard.

Not in the tournament, Temple. Bard was the stud then. Though Miller remained good all year, Bard caught fire inthe tournament. I remember CBW just being wowed by Bard and kind of down on Miller. Not that we should take CBW's word as gospel but the guy does know something about pitching.

He's doing his best to prove that he's got nothing left to prove at this level.

He's probably already proved it, Darren. But really, what do the Sox gain by moving him to AAA? It's not like the competition is really all that different there from AA. Unless they intend to use him in the rotation soon, or want to move somebody else into the Portland rotation, I'd leave him where he is.

What a great problem to have. The Sox have a veteran stud with the big club who has already proven himself to be a horse in the post-season, another stud from oversees who's currently undefeated, two young pitchers who have thrown no-hitters in the bigs and show every indication of breaking out soon,, a veteran knuckler who can be unhittable on any given afternoon, two veteran former flamethrowers who know how to win, and two young pitchers in AA who look like solid #2 starters, plus a handful of other guys who could be good if they take atep forward.

Wow. What depth.

He wasn't a "stud" in the tournament Kevin. He had one good game, one decent game, and two very bad games.

Vs. Winthrop (Regional)- 6.2 IP, 8 H, 2 ER, 8/2 K/BB
Vs. Alabama (Super Regional)- 2 IP, 2 H, 2 ER, 0/2 K/BB
Vs. CSF (CWS) - 6 IP, 12 H, 5 ER, 2/1 K/BB
Vs. Oregon State (CWS) - 7.2 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 2/1 K/BB

Combined: 22.1 IP, 28 H, 3.30 ERA, 12/6 K/BB

It's a decent ERA, but that's definitely not "studly" for a first round pick against college competition. Especially since several ridiculous defensive plays in the Alabama game kept him from giving up 6 or 7 runs, which I distinctly remember because the entire Sox Prospects board was watching the game. Here's a quote:

Man, I was so looking forward to watching Bard pitch for UNC last night. I'd never seen him before and had heard good things about him. Well, let's just say I was not impressed. Hopefully, it was just one of his well publicized inconsistent outings, but he got DRILLED.

For those of you that didn't watch, consider yourself fortunate. It seemed like every fastball he threw, the Alabama batters were crushing. Even the #9 hitter (Paiml, I believe) hit a frozen rope off of him to deep center for a triple. He only gave up two runs, but it could've (and should've) been alot worse than that. It was ugly.

Hopefully he bounces back in his next outing and shows me something. Otherwise, I think it will be tough to justify a big dollar signing bonus IMO.

And here are comments from his game against Fullerton:

My second impressions. On the plus side, Bard threw 98 with ease. His breaking ball was good the last 3 innings. A lot of the hits would have been broken bats and ground balls with wood bats. His defense stinks like everybody says. Very few hits were scorched. There is no doubt he has the "potential" to be good.

On the other side, if you take the bunts out of this game, the other team hit 12-25 off him. Whats that, a .480 batting average. I only saw 5 swing and misses. Could have been more though. Two K's. Not great movement. Not sure he has an out pitch inspite of the velocity.

Still think it was a mistake. Only his velocity would get the grade of A. Movement, command, makeup, and results are B- or worse. If he signs, I hope they work with him more then pitch him aswell. His control isn't horrible. But if he loses his breaking pitch like he did the first few innings and the last game, he doesn't have enough location or movement on his fast ball to survive at the ML level. They must find a way for him to CONSISTENTLY throw his breaking pitches like he did in innings 4-5-6. And not like 1-2-3 or last week. Even then, I don't think he would be an ace. I think he needs a real split to go with the sideways breaking ball and fastball. That 89 MPH thing didn't cut it.

So I disagree that he was "studly" at all. I remember him being average at best. Also, CBW did not rave about him during the CWS, he raved about him from watching 30 seconds of draft tape from the MLB website.


Link

He's probably already proved it, Darren. But really, what do the Sox gain by moving him to AAA? It's not like the competition is really all that different there from AA. Unless they intend to use him in the rotation soon, or want to move somebody else into the Portland rotation, I'd leave him where he is.

The Sox have stated on the record that they believe there is a difference between the double A pitcher/hitter and the triple A pitcher/hitter. Not just in talent, but in approach and experience. This is why they believe physical development really ends at the double-A level, however triple-A requires the hitters and pitchers to hit and pitch like a major leaguer.

It's a decent ERA, but that's definitely not "studly" for a first round pick against college competition.

You don't think that's studly, Temple? Against the best college competition with composite bats and with a college level defense?

No, Kevin, I don't. Because I watched the games, watched the context they were compiled in, and watched his performance. I can tell you that his K/9 was a much better indication of his studliness than his ERA in this situation. Whether you want to believe that is your choice.

Well, I watched him too. UNC is my alma mater. I can't say I saw every game but what I saw, I was impressed by.

Apparently, the Red Sox saw what I saw because they used a 1st round draft pick on him. The rap on him is he had trouble repeating his motion, would get out of sync and pitch horribly in stretches.

The Sox have stated on the record that they believe there is a difference between the double A pitcher/hitter and the triple A pitcher/hitter. Not just in talent, but in approach and experience. This is why they believe physical development really ends at the double-A level, however triple-A requires the hitters and pitchers to hit and pitch like a major leaguer.

Hadn't read this elsewhere. Thanks for sharing it.

If that's true about the AA/AAA thing, Temple, they have a funny way of showing it. Lester and Buchholz were essentially brought up straight to the majors and they seem to be doing the same thing with Masterson.

The pattern, it seems to me, is to bring the starters up from AA for a spot start or two, giving them a taste of The Show, then sending them down to AAA as finishing school for around 10 starts or so. No?

Both Lester and Buchholz pitched in triple-A before pitching in the majors.

Buch had a pretty good outing today in a rout. One run on three hits in 4 innings. 2 BBs and 3 Ks.

Yuch.