TWO Wakefields? Scary. I would love to see another knuckleballer in the majors though. He's probably the 10th SP on the depth chart right now so even without that huge depth he's probably still out. But RA Dickey has a job, so...

I'm going to re-post my GCL and NYPL players to watch here:


NYPL:
Ryan Dent- 1S pick last season. A MIF with speed and a little pop. He's 19, so he's still very young for a league normally populated by college players.

Will Middlebrooks- Received the highest bonus of anybody from last year's Sox draft. Still pretty raw and had trouble adjusting to wood in XST. The early word on him is that he's out of sorts at the plate: taking pitches down the middle and swinging at breaking balls out of the zone. Still, it's only 20 AB's and he's 19 years old.

Brock Huntzinger- The Sox quasi-surprise 3rd round pick last season. He's been decent early on: 10 IP, 7 H, 0 ER, 11/1 K/BB. It's a pitcher's league, but that's still impressive for someone in their first year out of high school.

Stolmy Pimentel- The youngest player on the team, 18, Pimentel is a Dominican pitcher who has shown the ability in his young career to strike a lot of people out and get a lot of ground balls. He's only had one start so far, but he's done exactly that: 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 6/1 K/BB, 7/1 GO/AO

Michael Lee- Lee is just one of those guys you have a feeling about. He's got a great frame (6'6", 190) and good raw stuff (mid-90's fastball and a developing breaking ball and changeup). He dominated his only appearance so far (6 batters faced, 5 K's) and is someone to keep an eye on.

Some others to watch include Yeiper Castillo (RHP), Luis Sumoza (OF), Drake Britton (LHP), Kyle Weiland (RHP), and Hunter Strickland (RHP).

GCL:

Michael Almanzar- The Sox big bonus baby magically shrunk two inches over the winter and is now listed at 6'3" and 190 pounds. He's got excellent raw power, but he's been a singles hitter very early on. Only 17, Almanzar is raw in most facets of the game. He's already moved to 3B, though he was drafted as a SS. He's got a strong arm and athleticism, so I would imagine they would leave him there for a while unless he is really horrible. He has had 2 hits in every game the GCL Sox have played so far.

Swen Huijer- Not a prospect in the truest sense, but he's a 6'9", 17-year old pitcher from Haarlem (the Netherlands). You gotta root for someone like that.

Chia-Chu Chen- The Sox smaller Taiwanese splash last year, Chen is a small-framed catcher with good defensive skills.

More prospects should come on to the scene as the Sox actually sign some of their high schoolers from this year's draft.

And btw, my heart can't take another knuckleballer in the rotation, though I'd love to see Zink get a shot. He's certainly earned it.

But RA Dickey has a job, so...

Dickey had a nice year for the Brewers last year in the PCL, but they didn't even bother to give him a September call-up.

Jared Fernandez had a decent run for a few years in AAA for a couple of teams, but no one really wanted to let him stick in the majors.

Charlie Haeger got a few fill-in starts for the ChiSox, IIRC.

Seems you have to be in the right place at the right time if you're a knuckleballer, and usually only as a last resort.

It's nice to see Michael Lee has found an alternative to ripping-and-running.

Nice.

Haeger's only 24, and he's gotten off to slow starts in Triple-A the last two years, only to put up some encouraging numbers. I'm hoping the White Sox can make some room for him, because he seems like he's going to be incredibly useful.

Two things prove inspirational to my small hope of doing any kind of pitching

a) Doug Davis
b) Knuckleballers

Basically the practice motion I use while messing around is a bit slower than Doug Davis' motion.

Of course, my suspicion is that throwing a knuckler, even while raising my right foot, standing in place for a moment, and throwing, is going to lead to ugly things.

Anyways, what's the rule on how long one can wait to throw while in a delivery?

I love the knuckleball! Love! It! I really hope Zink gets a chance somewhere, and I'd love for it to be in Boston. Slim chance as long as Wake is even relatively effective, but a guy can hope.

There was a good article in Projo in May about Zink. His improvement this year is in part due to qualitative changes in his pitching style:

[Zink] has had enough success to climb to Triple A. Now, as he is excelling for the Pawtucket Red Sox and putting himself in position for a possible spot in the big leagues, it seems ironic that he has become a different pitcher, at least partially. He still throws his knuckler most of the time. But now it is just part of his arsenal.

“I’m throwing four pitches,” said Zink, who is 4-2 after being the winning pitcher as the PawSox beat Norfolk, 8-5, at McCoy. “I have a fastball, curve and changeup, too.” Zink has made particular use of his fastball and changeup. His fastball is in the low 80s. His changeup is interesting because it is about the same speed as his knucklers, in the 66-71 range.

I'm pretty excited about Zink. Who was the last knuckleballer to also sort of be a pitcher? I vaguely remember Tom Candiotti mixing in other pitches quite a bit, but I don't know.

Candiotti threw about 30-40% knucklers if I remember correctly. He had a real good curveball.

Steve Sparks threw a fastball, sinker, and slider along with his knuckler.

Candiotti threw about 30-40% knucklers if I remember correctly. He had a real good curveball.

According to the Red Sox radio broadcast last night, Candiotti is throwing batting practice today for the D-Backs before they face Wakefield. I don't think many teams do this - wonder if it will have any effect.

Edit: I love when Wake snaps off that 58 mph curveball once or twice per start; probably my favorite "show me" pitch of all time.

There was an article about Zink in the New York Times a week or so ago. It gave the implication that Zink will not be called up by the Sox unless it is to replace Wakefield. This is the text:

... the Red Sox have told Zink’s agent that Jason Varitek is slated to catch four of every five games, with Kevin Cash on staff primarily to catch Wakefield.

“It’s frustrating to know that because of what I do, I can only replace one guy up there,” Zink said. “And he’s doing pretty well.”

full link here (registration required, I think).

re:14

Is 'Tek unwilling to catch Wakefield or any other knuckleballer? If so that sucks, and is not very Captain-like.

theyve been teammates for a decade, and Tek caught Wakefield tons of times before Dougie came aboard, and I dont remember the world ending.

I'm stunned that the Red Sox didn't require Tek start catch Wakefield again with Dougie's departure, starting in spring training. Since it seemed a real possibility that Wake could end up in the bullpen for at least part of 2008, the idea of allowing him to maintain a personal caddy seemed a mistake.

I guess this is just another reason why they should have broken out the big glove for Tek.

I wonder if Varitek has ever tried catching Zink at all? Maybe his knuckler isn't as difficult to handle as Wakefield's, and Varitek might not have as much trouble with it.

i think wakefield is an excuse to rest varitek. i'm sure varitek could catch wakefield if he needed to. catchers get banged up and when you've got a 36 yo catcher, why do you want to make him go out for another 35 games?

I wonder if Varitek has ever tried catching Zink at all? Maybe his knuckler isn't as difficult to handle as Wakefield's, and Varitek might not have as much trouble with it.

In which case, he'd be a pretty drastically less effective pitcher I suspect.

I'm sure Varitek prefers to catch non-knucklers - I know I would - but I seriously doubt Varitek would demand to keep a promising pitcher off the roster so that he wouldn't have to catch one. I'm also pretty sure the Red Sox wouldn't listen to him if he did.

I think the Zink quote is more a misinterpretation by Zink (or misinformation from the Red Sox) than a missive from Tek.

i think wakefield is an excuse to rest varitek.

I think that was one of the reasons. The other was that Wake started throwing really well when he was first paired with Belli, and the Sox likely thought that giving the toughest guy to catch to the backup made sense for breeding familiarity. It was a wise strategy when they knew Wakefield was going to be in the starting rotation all season. It's not one I would have employed going into 2008 and beyond.

Honestly I would feel better about Zink if I knew he was just using a knuckler (or at least as much as Wakefield). The less of a knuckleball pitcher he is, the less you can explain the difference between his ERA and unspectacular peripherals as skill

We don't really know what the relationship between peripherals and ERA should be for someone who throws a knuckleball some fraction of the time. BABIP might trend linearly with the fraction of knuckleballs thrown, but it might also be the lowest if knuckleballs are mixed in. Since the sample size is so small, it's pretty much impossible to know statistically. Not to say that he's for real, but it's hard to dismiss him just based on that.

Cross-posted from Game Chatter... Wakefield, last 6 starts:

2.09 ERA.
2 wins, 2 losses, 2 no-decisions.

Buchholz had a solid outing at AAA today.

6.2 IP, 5 H, 1R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 2 BB, 7 SO

At what point does he come back to the majors? His ERA since going back down is 1.87.

Now that Timlin is on the DL, the pen has been really, really solid. The only guy who still makes me cringe is Lopez. Where do you put Buchholz when everyone else is pitching so well? Drop Masterson back down?

Put Masterson in the pen?

At what point does he come back to the majors? His ERA since going back down is 1.87.

Probably about a week after calling him up for the rest of the year won't grant him free agency a year sooner

Probably about a week after calling him up for the rest of the year won't grant him free agency a year sooner

Exactly. And I believe that's two or three weeks from now.

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you guys here. I don't think the Sox are keeping down a pitcher they think could help them now to possibly save money six years down the road. There's way too good of a chance that he'll flame out before then to even worry about such a thing.

wouldn't it potentially save them money sooner than that, and at each year? At some point he either is or is not a "super 2" eligible for arb, right? And then after that, at each arb year, the class of comparables when making an award is other players of comparable service time.

PECOTA has his 2014 season as being worth $8 million. Stashing him in Pawtucket for two extra months costs this team maybe $2 million this year. It's a no brainer decision

What's the confidence level on that Pecota value projection? And what do they say $8 mil is worth in today's dollars?

I still don't buy that the Sox would jeopardize their playoff hopes in anyway to possibly save money that far down the road.

His changeup is interesting because it is about the same speed as his knucklers, in the 66-71 range.

This is an interesting idea. I wonder how much more effective having a regular-spin ball the same speed as your knuckler makes the knuckler.

The Drive blew a 10-3 lead today, including giving 3 up in the top of the 9th to go down 12-10. But Taiwanese folk hero Che-Hsuan Lin hit a 3-run shot to give the Drive the walk-off win and bail several of his pitchers out.

His line from today: 4/5, 2 2B's, HR, BB, 6 RBI

I would have to imagine that would be the best WPA game of the year for anyone in the Sox minors.

Darren, your boy Adam Mills got promoted to Portland.

I love the pitching line of foster in getting the win:

1.0 6 3 3 0 0 0

Tamacco Navarro's OPS by month:

April: .698
May: .752
June: .873

I've had a chance to see him play some SS and 3B and he's really an excellent defender. Very smooth and graceful at both.

Josh Reddick OPS by month in Lancaster:

April (25 AB's): .859 OPS
May: .975 OPS
June: 1.031 OPS

He might need to learn how to walk, but he's not going to do it at this level. From what I've heard from people who watch him, he crushes pitches inside and outside the strikezone. To get him to walk, there needs to be some incentive to not swing at those pitches. As it is, he can basically hit anything that's thrown his way in the Cal League, whether it be a strike or not. It's not like he's striking out a lot.

Chih-Hsien Chiang put up a .960 OPS in June. That's something to watch over the next two months. He's 20, so he's also pretty young for high-A.

The Spinners played two today and Ryan Dent took a combined 7 walks between both games.

Stolmy Pimentel, the 18-year old Dominican RHP, also has had a good start for the Spinners:

15 IP, 12 H, 1.80 ERA, 14/2 K/BB, 1.64 GO/AO

Wanted to go back to the Masterson/Buchholz conversation. It seems pretty obvious that the better pitcher is in AAA, and the pitcher who needs to work on his secondary stuff, command, and approach against LHB is pitching in the majors.

I understand, conceptually, the argument for the plausible gain to be had in 2011-2013 based on saving another month of service time, but it's hard to justify it from a baseball perspective at this point. Buchholz has nothing more to learn in AAA - minor leaguers cannot hit him - and Masterson needs seasoning against AAA lefties if he's going to be more than a good reliever.

Honestly I'd rather see Masterson in the ML bullpen. The pen desperately needs someone who can pitch more than one inning at a time, and you'd have to think he could be that guy.

At the very least Masterson has to be skipped over for the start Sunday in the Stadium.

That too. That would be pretty damned ugly. ARod and Jeter would be the only RHB in the lineup.

Hey MCOA, I just put up a thread on Masterson/Buc, without knowing you commented on it here. Agreed with what you wrote here.

Temple, thanks for all the info. Hooray for my man Mills! AA is where he belongs.

Pimentel sounds too much like Pimento loaf for my taste, but I like those numbers.

Not for nothing:

Jason Place OPS by month-

April: .506
May: .743
June: .952
July: 1.000

OK, so he only has 5 PA's in July, but it makes the trend look better.

CG SHO for Zink. 9 IP, 2 H, 2 BB, 8 K. His ERA is down to 2.42.

Masterson's being given the start tomorrow.

Sigh.

RHB: 163/239/263
LHB: 231/381/484

Luckily the Yankees are heavily right-handed, so nothing to worry about.

About the only break he'll get is Gardner replacing Damon. Still a lefty, but ...

Now that I've said that, Gardner will probably hit three into the short porch off him.

I predict the yankees will send out Gardner, Melky, Abreu, A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Betemit, Posada, and Giambi tomorrow, so that's 2 righties out of 9.

I asked an original Lancaster Jethawks fan to compare Lars Anderson (Carlos Gonzalez), Josh Reddick (Miguel Montero), and Jason Place (Jesus Cota) with some of their most statistically comparable players to have come through Lancaster. Here is what she said:

OK, let me see. Just my thoughts and I'm sure many will disagree. Sorry, this will be long.

Anderson and Gonzalez ..... They are similar in their age for the level, are both left handed, they both have an amazing amount of natural talent and a strong work ethic, but those are the only things they have in common.

-Carlos was a good hitter, but not a great hitter. His patience and his pitch recognition were good. He would swing for the fence in RF which explained his power numbers, but didn't hit well to all fields. (That I can remember.) There were times where he would hack and flail at a pitch, but not as much as some players his age, because by that time he had played 3 seasons of pro-ball in the US. He was a good hitter for his age. Carlos' greatest strengths were his ease of movement, very graceful and fluid, (not swing mechanics so much as just general body movement), speed, and his amazing defense. No one on that list can compare to him defensively.

-Lars has the strongest pitch and strike zone recognition of anyone I've seen come through LNC as long as I can remember. ( off the top of my head) The pitches he is able to lay off of are absolutely shocking sometimes, and you can see how frustrated he gets with himself if he takes a close strike or strikes out. If he were a tad more aggressive he might have fewer Ks, but striking out is not his problem. He has a very advanced approach at the plate that most hitters don't learn until they have been in the higher levels for a while, if they ever learn. His power will come, without having to make any adjustment to his swing or approach, when he gets a little older and a little bulkier. If he chose to change his swing, and just all out hack for the fence every at bat, his power would be huge, but then he wouldn't be as effective. I'd say by the time he is 23 or so he will be a really impressive all around hitter. He still has times where his age and inexperience will show and he will swing at a bad pitch and it looks really ugly, but it happens to him a lot less then anyone else on the team.

Superior? I'll use at the time they were in LNC, because you can not compare A+ to ML.
Offensive Anderson - although Carlos had more HRs ....Defensive vs everyone on this list Gonzalez
___________
Place and Cota .... Can't compare their offense meaningfully.

-Cota didn't have the offensive difficulty and mechanical things to tinker with that Jason does. He did really great the season before in rookie ball (pioneer league 2001) and I attribute a lot of the strikeouts in Lancaster to his desire to hit it into the wind, and therefore get a HR and the D-backs lack of a decent hitting coach to keep him from doing that. He was a good player. ( It was 6 years ago, and I remember him more from when he was out here the second time)

-Place has a lot of raw talent that the Sox are trying to mold, and he is working very hard. His pitch recognition and patience have gotten a lot better, as have most of his other offensive areas ( check his monthly stats). He is a hard worker and tries to improve his approach every game. He is a very good defender and I can see him developing strong, consistent, offensive skills to go with his defense, if he is given another year or so after this one to perfect them without being expected to become an offensive powerhouse.

At the time Cota played in Lancaster I'd say his and JP's offensive values were close, but Jason has a lot of improving he can make before this year is over, so I will say... at this moment they would be close, but by the end of the season if the improvement continues....
Superior- Place

____________
Reddick and Montero..... This is a difficult one, because they have stats and handedness in common, but little else.

-Miguel ....By the time Miguel got to Lancaster he had 3 seasons of pro-ball and was a catcher. He had much better strike zone recognition and plate patience than most. He would wait for the pitcher to pitch one over the plate and then hit the crap out of it. He hit those numbers while catching almost every game for the first half and then he went up to AA after the Futures Game. His swing had an ease to it, a sort of economy of movement, which is why I think he made it to the ML so quickly, the end of the next season. Unfortunately, I think he was rushed a little. Then when Miguel got injured there were a glut of catchers waiting to step in and snake his spot, and that has not allowed for a smooth transition.

-Josh.... Red has an amazingly quick bat. Probably the fastest of any Sox guy to come through here. Because of the bat speed, he generates quite a lot of power and is able to react at the plate very quickly. He is more likely to make solid contact when he gets a hold of one, and it has given him a huge amount of confidence. His confidence has translated into Reddick's free swinging style. When I say free swinging, I'm talking about him swinging at the first pitch too often, but mostly swinging at pitches that are 6 inches out of the strike zone and very low or high. Luckily with his quickness, he is able to get the bat on them and poke them into a gap. That is my only real concern with Josh and the one area that I feel could keep him from being effective at higher levels. As he progresses the pitching is going to get better and if he doesn't learn to lay off of those crappy pitches he will be an easy target. I have already seen some of the better pitchers in the league get him to chase junk because he is over confident. Better pitching could eat him alive. At this moment his IsoD is .029, but I know that he has been working on it, and in July (sss) his IsoD is .103 and he has started to take more pitches. It will take a while for the mind set to really become natural, in one of his ABs yesterday, he swung on the first pitch and would have GIDP if Lars hadn't broken up the play at 2b. It was over 100 degrees, the opposing pitcher was wearing long sleeves, and was the #1 pitcher on their staff. According to the Ports' gun, the SP was averaging 97 and topping off at 100. It would be a good time to make the pitcher throw a few extra pitches so you could get him out of the game sooner.

I see Reddick's only real obstacle as his lack of patience and his chasing junk, and it has the potential to be a big stumbling block, but he has shown signs of conscience effort to work on his approach. If he is able to at least keep from swinging at pitches so ridiculously out of the zone, and can raise his OBP, he will be a very strong offensive player. But right now of the two at the time they were in Lancaster .....
Superior- Montero

Link

Richie Lentz promoted to Po'land.

Might mean a Bowden promotion after tonight's game.

What does everyone think of 19-year old Brock Huntzinger's debut in Lowell?

31 IP, 19 H, 0.58 ERA, 25/2 K/BB

The K's aren't there yet, but he'd be a freshman in college this season if he went to Indiana.

Lars Anderson and Argenis Diaz promoted to Portland.

What does everyone think of 19-year old Brock Huntzinger's debut in Lowell?

I'm in favor of them.

Crime? I'm against it.

Remember me in November.

I can live with 7+ K/9 when it's accompanied by a 12+ K/BB. Only one HR allowed in those 31 innings, too.

Another youngster throwing reasonably well for Lowell is 18-year-old Stolmy Pimentel.

24 IP, 19 H, 3.38 ERA, 24/5 K/BB

How can you not root for a kid with that name? Awesome.

Huntzinger's struck out 22% of the batters he's faced - that's a damn good strikeout rate. With such low H and BB totals, his K rate looks a tick or two lower than it actually is.

Middlebrooks and Dent appear to be completely overmatched.

Almanzar is still doing awesome, showing a broad base of skills, and what's the story with Bryan Peterson, the HS kid hitting for a 1000+ OPS right now in the GCL?

Peterson is a raw athlete type with good present pull power. Unfortunately, he is now out an indefinite length of time with a staph infection.

IT'S PROMOTION DAY!

Here's what we got going:

First, 2nd round pick Derrik Gibson has signed and will report to the GCL.

Dennis Neuman (2002 Curacao LLWS hero) has been promoted to Lowell.

Yamaico Navarro and Mike Jones will be promoted to Lancaster.

Lars Anderson and Argenis Diaz will be promoted to Portland.

And call it a hunch, but Michael Bowden and Jeff Corsaletti will probably be promoted to Pawtucket.

Some other chips may fall too. I'll keep everyone informed.

And reportedly Reddick to Portland.

If he does well in AAA, any chance we'll see a September start from Bowden?

EDIT: Never mind.

Yea, there's a very good chance. Keep in mind, Bowden is currently on the DL, but he has no injury.

Temple - do you think because Bowden does not have to be added to the 40 man this offseason (iirc), that will stop a September start? In looking over the 40 man, there is certainly a good amount of wiggle room to drop players. OTOH, the college players from the '05 draft have to be added if there is fear of them leaving (Corsaletti, Wagner, Bell), though we aren't talking about big chances of Rule 5 defections here.

I don't really have a good sense of the value of September starts, I suppose, for a guy in this situation (unlikely to help in the playoffs, unlikely to break camp with the team the following year, no need to protect during the off season, etc.), but I don't really think I understand the positives well enough.

Josh, I want to make it clear that what I stated in post 63 was not my opinion. This is coming from people much closer to the situation. It's not a definite by any means, however.

Also, there is so much drek on the 40-man that people don't even realize, I wouldn't be worried about that this off-season. I could take that 40-man down to 32 today without batting an eye.

I think Corsaletti and Bell are prime Rule 5 picks if they're not protected. They're both still young enough to turn into decent regulars and are currently mature enough and skilled enough to hold down a 4th/5th OF job.

Sox Prospects says Bowden/Corso to AAA is official.

And they say Reddick is NOT being promoted to AA.

Papi's minor league assignment started well - a homer and a walk in 4 PA, the HR apparently on a line shot to right that barely got higher than the fence.

Great. Thanks, Temple.

And they say Reddick is NOT being promoted to AA.

That's weird about Reddick. Does his fielding need a lot of work or something?

Fielding is fine. They want him to work on taking walks/being more patient.

Fielding is fine. They want him to work on taking walks/being more patient.

Seems like it's hard to take walks when you're hitting .340, but I guess I can see the concern. His walk rate is pretty low.

You're preaching to the choir. I've been fighting that fight for a good month now.

They probably feel that .340 can't be sustained by such a free swinger against pitchers who command better.

Heck, they're closer to the situation than I am so...

Michael Almanzar to Greenville.

Michael Almanzar to Greenville.

Damn.

N/m

Can't use the code function

Now it's official: Reddick to Portland.

Darren, can you put up a new minor league thread when you get a chance? There's a lot of things going on right now.

New Globe article on Zink.

Even though he hasn't been as dominant lately, especially when having to be pulled from a start July 19 after giving up five earned runs in 1 2/3 innings, Zink, who turns 29 Aug. 26, has been able to go deep into games and give his team the opportunity to win. Exactly what the Red Sox look for from Wakefield.

It was in that July 19 start that Zink, for the first time this season, got predictable with his secondary pitches, not showing the same faith in his knuckler. Or, as he says, he got mad and started throwing his batting practice fastball.

Since then, Zink has gone back to the knuckleball. In fact, he threw 100 percent knucklers in his last start Tuesday - 95 of 95 - going seven innings and earning the win.

"That's got to take a lot of guts," Hazen said of throwing a knuckleball in a 3-and-1 count. "He doesn't probably know exactly where it's going. I think that takes a lot of guts to do that. I think that's the maturity side that we're seeing."

Zink will start in place of Wake, per Projo.

another knuckleball guy

if he does good, than Wake better look out

Aaaaand I don't think Wake has anything to worry about.