FWIW, any Yankee fans complaining about Texas (this goes for that #### A-Rod too) should STFU. No one owes you anything. If you don't like it, win more games next time.

I agree with this 100%. Texas owes them nothing.

A similar situation arose between St. Louis and Houston in 2001 - where Houston was the rightful division champs, but the Cards declared themselvs co-champions. I believe they were instructed to stop doing that.

You're wrong, MLB officials said that neither team is wrong and allowed the Cards to continue to fly the flag. I have no idea whether it's still up, but MLB was completely unhelpful in settling the issue.

Also, people who label individuals with broad ideological labels and then call others hopeless for not demonizing the person based on the label and follow it up by encouraging people to root against sports teams because of the nationality of the manager (I know it's indirect, but it is what you did) don't really need a label the folly of their position.

Eraser-X -

I think you're taking OleP's initial post much more seriously than he meant it. He wasn't "encouraging people to root against the White Sox." That was just giving a fun further "reason" to root for the Red Sox, as someone who's already rooting for those latter good, non-dictator-loving Sox.

You guys can have your further debate on the exact comparative ethical judgment to be laid upon Chavez, if you want, but I don't think it's fair to label OleP's initial fun post as a position statement.

And as the one who most recently mentioned the "technicality" - I'm not whining. I don't really care if the Sox technically get the division championship or not. I wanted them to win it outright, and I wanted the Yankees to finish second, and that didn't happen.

I'm using the "technicality" language because the Yankee fans seem to think they won the AL East themselves in any meaningful way. I mean, SJ deserves his 30 pieces of silver, but that doesn't mean the Yankees somehow won more games than the Red Sox.

Hall of Fame views Astros and Cardinals of 2001 as NL Central co-champs:

Link

The Yankees, it appears by all rights, won the division on a technicality.

The Yankees won the division on a technicality in the same sense that a batter who pops up on the infield with runners on first and second and fewer than two outs is out whether or not the ball is caught on a technicality.

The Yankees won the division on a technicality in the same sense that a batter who reaches first base ahead of the ball after striking out on a wild pitch is safe on a technicality.

The Yankees won the division on a technicality in the same sense that a batter-runner who hits the ball on the fly over an outfield fence more than 250ft. from home plate is entitled to all four bases on a technicality.

As far as I know, "technicality" is just another name for a "rule."

Cleveland affected the outcome of the Eastern Division because they were a second place team, and the rule as written involves the record of other second place teams from the same record.

MLB thought about this situation before it happened, and they thought it was important enough to write a rule just to cover this situation.

That rule clearly indicates that the Yankees are division champs and the Red Sox are not.

IF you are going to complain about that, you might as well complain about your favorite hitter being called out after only 3 strikes.

i just saw the jets head coach on espn talk about how players always say their ready to go in the game or whateve r... how he he's ready to go in the game, but he knows better. ya know, francona could learn a thing or two from that herm edwards character.

This is a dopey thread.

Hey, speaking of gambling, I saw that Vegas has both the Angels and the White Sox as roughly 7-5 favortites to win their rounds.

Not surprising ly karlmagnus was right about scot free:

No, this term is not related to the supposed penurious nature of those living in the north of Britain. Rather, it derives from scot meaning a payment or tax. This word appears in 1297. The origin is uncertain, it probably comes from Old Norse, but an origin in the French escot is not out of the question.

So to get off scot free is to get away without making the payment that is due.

-- courtesy wordorigins.com

That said, scots have come to think it is about their penurious nature and therefore it is somewhat inappropriate. Similarly, and slightly more bizarrely, there is a call in Canada at least to stop using the word niggardly for obvious reasons, even tough it is completely unrelated in meaning and origin to the offensive slur.

You strike me as the sort of person who cheats at "Go Fish."

You strike as the kind of person who has no idea what he's talking about.

I never cheat at anything. Ever.

David Ortiz acknowledges the obvious: After the All-Star break, they didn't play that well.

That's from Buster Olney's blog today. Yeah, Buster, 46-29 sure is obviously lousy. Next thing you'll probably tell us productive outs are an important statistic.

Hey, speaking of gambling, I saw that Vegas has both the Angels and the White Sox as roughly 7-5 favortites to win their rounds.

Not where I play....

Chicago 2.20
Boston 1.61

LAA 2.25
NYY 1.57

AL Pennant

NYY 2.80
BOS 4.00
LAA 3.60
CHW 4.75

Wow, heavy action on NYY, huh?

there is always action on NYY, it is hard to make money on them, the odds in vegas are never true odds, because so many people bet on them.

What are the odds on the Series?

MC, yeah, I may have overreacted, and there's certainly some evidence that Chavez's regime has human rights problems, probably even beyond those of the Bush adminstration (not that that should be some mystical line in the sand).

I wasn't going to say anything until the follow-up posts when the argument was basically, "If you don't agree with me, you are a lost cause and I'm not going to even put forth the effort to explain why".

I'm also a little sick of the "stupid Ozzie" attitude that some folks around here have. Ozzie is certainly a character and I don't like a lot of what he says, but he had a great year managing. I have yet to see any substantive critique of his managing choices other than the normal bush league, "This one particular move was dumb" analysis. Don't get me wrong--when he leaves A.J. in to strike out with the bases loaded against a lefty, it bothers me. But his handling of the pitchers this year has been impressive whether it be skilled or just extremely lucky.

My sportsbook has the Red Sox as favourites over the Whiteys.

SJ-you're right. My boss read me the lines backwards. They did seem out of whack...

We're the overdogs! Yipee!

OK, as long as we're talking about betting on the MFY's, I might as well confess to what I've been doing the past few seasons.

As Torre's 'Roiders enter the first round of the playoffs, I wager $200 on them. If they lose, as a Sox fan who works in NYC, I'm overjoyed (I look at it this way: if there was a magic wand I could rent for a day to wave at the Evil Empire, preventing them from winning the WS that season, I'd gladly lay out a couple hundred bucks if that was the fee, every damn year!).

If the Red Sox' arch enemies should win ALDS round, I "parlay" my take on them to emerge victorious in the ALCS, and then the WS. Either they eventually lose, and I'm happy, or they win and I get a chunk of cash as consolation prize. Buy a basic laptop or something...heh heh. So far I've "lost" my bet twice, 2003 and 2004.

I should have thought of this way back in 1995.

So, SJ, I'm down on the EE at -136. Hate me if you want-I can't lose!

tfbg9, I know a lot of people who did this for the Presidential election...

If people want some arbitrage, getting in on the angels at 2-1 at SJ's sportsbook could be offset by selling the angels at basically 1-1 on Tradesports. Same with the White Sox.

tfbg I've been talking about doing this for years, but never have done so. I'm too much of a wimp to wager overseas and I wouldn't know how to find/approach a bookie either.

"I never cheat at anything. Ever."

good one.

I put some money down on the Padres at 36-1 to win the World Series. Even if they only have a 1 in 3 chance to win each series (which is fairly ludicrous), that still leaves them at only 27-1 to win the Series.

good one.

Why is that so hard to believe?

Luckily, I work with a guy who loves to bet and hates the MFY's the old fashioned way-he bets against them!

The first year I did this I went with an intenet bookie place. I "lost" and therefore collecting never became an issue.

Biff, ignore mommy-mommy's a troll.