BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: Trade Deadline Thread

Reader Comments and Retorts

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 3 of 5 pages < 1 2 3 4 5 >

201. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:00 PM (#2884345)

Except the Marlins don't want to give up Stanton. He was off the table, according to all reports.

Well, then that was pretty dumb of them. They could have gotten two first round picks and two months of free Manny.

202. Darren

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:00 PM (#2884346)

Not all reports. I saw things that said he was back on the table. Of course, the reports have been saying all sorts of conflicting crap so who knows.

If 197 is true, his act is getting very old.

203. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2884351)

Heyman says that the Mets are talking to the Nationals about Luis Ayala.

204. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2884352)

I'm pretty sure you can find a report from any time in the last 3 hours saying whatever you want to find.

205. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2884353)

I'd just like to say that as a baseball fan, the day of the trade deadline is usually my favorite day of the year. And it's where this place really shines.

206. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:06 PM (#2884359)

...and I broke the website with effusive praise.

*sigh*

207. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:10 PM (#2884365)

Posted by Jayson Stark

Those on-again, off-again Jason Bay-to-Tampa Bay talks are back on, according to a source familiar with the discussions. The two sides have been so far apart that it appeared they'd given up on each other as of early Thursday afternoon. But the source said they've closed that gap somewhat and are still talking.
Tampa Bay has hinted its willing to structure a package around pitcher Jeff Niemann and shortstop prospect Reid Brignac, but the Pirates have been seeking one of their elite pitching prospects -- Wade Davis, David Price or Jeremy Hellickson.

208. Big Train Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:10 PM (#2884366)

The Red Sox sought additional prospects from the Marlins in their attempt to satisfy the Pirates, sources say, but the Marlins would not budge from their initial offer.

Why not just kick in one of your prospects? Seems like the Sox would want to get this done, right?

209. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:13 PM (#2884371)

If I had to put money down on an outcome, SJ, I think that's where I'd put it. The Sox will probably end up throwing in another guy to get it done sometime just before the deadline.

210. Big Train Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:14 PM (#2884377)

But Rosenthal is now reporting the Rays are trying to swoop in and get Bay. If that is the case, Theo has nowhere to go.

211. Fat Al Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:18 PM (#2884385)

Why does everyone believe that the Red Sox want to do this badly enough to move off their price? We've been down this road before -- including several times with the same player -- and I don't recall that F.O. doing anything or overpaying because of a perception that they "had to."

212. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:19 PM (#2884386)

If you're Francona, is Manny in the lineup right now?

213. Fat Al Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:21 PM (#2884393)

For sure.

214. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:22 PM (#2884395)

If you're Francona, is Manny in the lineup right now?

Yeah, you have to let him make the first "move" after all this. The Sox should go about business as normal from here I think.

215. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:23 PM (#2884401)

If you're Francona, is Manny in the lineup right now?

He has to be. If this whole thing doesn't turn out, I imagine Manny and the Red Sox will make up like Clinton and Obama. They need each other too much to do anything too drastic, even though the war of words has been a little brutal.

216. npurcell Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2884414)

Tampa Bay has hinted its willing to structure a package around pitcher Jeff Niemann and shortstop prospect Reid Brignac, but the Pirates have been seeking one of their elite pitching prospects -- Wade Davis, David Price or Jeremy Hellickson.

Is Wade Davis really an elite pitching prospect? His peripherals have regressed this year to the point where he doesn't look all that special.

217. Sam M. Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2884416)

I imagine Manny and the Red Sox will make up like Clinton and Obama. They need each other too much to do anything too drastic, even though the war of words has been a little brutal.

As I said, the Sox can make Manny happy (relatively) by giving him the one thing that's been his end-game goal from the outset of this whole drama: free agency. Waive the option, and the drama goes away. I think the Sox know this, actually, and clearly preferred to be rid of him NOW if they could get an adequate bat to replace him. If they can't, they just go ahead and waive the option and live with him for two more months.

218. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:32 PM (#2884436)

From the Globe's Gordon Edes (2:19 p.m.): Less than 2 hours before the trading deadline, the Red Sox were still trying to make this 3-way deal with the Pirates and Marlins work, but as one source said, "They're not going to be stupid about it." At the moment, the deal would require the Red Sox to include prospects as well as Manny Ramirez and the $7 million remaining on his 2008 salary, a price the Sox appear unwilling tto pay at this time. Another industry source said within the last 10 minutes that he thinks talks will go down to the 4 p.m. deadline.

219. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:34 PM (#2884446)

Jonah Keri just proposed the theory that the Sox are just trying to c*ckblock (yes- his word) the Rays from getting Bay with all of this. He's probably at least 80% joking, but it's still a benefit if you're a Sox fan and nothing happens today.

220. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:35 PM (#2884452)

Somehow I don't think the Red Sox would go through all of these machinations to do that..

221. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2884486)

Am I the only person who still think Manny is a Marlin or a Dodger come 4:00?

222. Big Train Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:45 PM (#2884492)

I am no longer certain, but I hope its done. Rosenthal has had nothing for 35 minutes.

223. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:45 PM (#2884495)

Am I the only person who still think Manny is a Marlin or a Dodger come 4:00?

No.

224. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:47 PM (#2884503)

I think so too.

To fat Al, I think this deadline is pretty clearly different from preceding years, in what has been leaked to the press, or said outright, by both Manny and the front office. I don't see a relationship to salvage, and from watching the Sox recently, I think this is affecting the whole team's focus.

225. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:49 PM (#2884516)

Yes. This team has looked like a bunch of guys waiting for the other shoe to drop all week.

226. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:52 PM (#2884525)

Am I the only person who still think Manny is a Marlin or a Dodger come 4:00?

I'm with you. The Dodgers getting Manny (for something less than Kemp) would be a great pick-up, I think. The division is there for the taking.

227. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:54 PM (#2884533)

I'm with you. The Dodgers getting Manny (for something less than Kemp) would be a great pick-up, I think. The division is there for the taking.

Would the Red Sox do it? Even with all the bad blood, they're still in the middle of a playoff race and that would pretty clearly hurt their chances this year.

228. karlmagnus Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:54 PM (#2884534)

If there's no deal today, and there isn't a relationship to pick up, Theo and/or Lucchino need to resign immediately. This has been ABOMINABLY handled by the FO.

229. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:57 PM (#2884544)

KM's the best.

230. PJ Martinez Posted: July 31, 2008 at 05:57 PM (#2884545)

Maybe they can bring Duquette out of retirement, karl.

(And no, I don't think the Sox FO has handled this well. Far from it.)

231. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:00 PM (#2884554)

Would the Red Sox do it? Even with all the bad blood, they're still in the middle of a playoff race and that would pretty clearly hurt their chances this year.

Who knows what makes sense at this point. From Boston's perspective, you have to best 2 1st round picks and replace 80-90% of Manny, right? That seems tough, unless you're getting Kemp. But LA can't be that stupid, right? Right?

232. SoSH U at work Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:00 PM (#2884557)

Hey PJ, who did you consider Duquette's best FA signing? We couldn't figure it out.

233. Fat Al Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:04 PM (#2884572)

rotoworld:

ESPN's Peter Gammons reports that the Marlins wanted an extra $2 million from the Red Sox above and beyond what Manny Ramirez was owed in order to complete a deal.

That's an especially absurd thought given that the Marlins are likely to take in more on revenue sharing alone this year than they're spending on payroll. If Ramirez is traded now, it might be to the Dodgers.

234. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:04 PM (#2884577)

SI reporting the Dodgers might be back in for Manny. Centerpiece of the deal? Andre Ethier.

Pass.

235. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:07 PM (#2884601)

I don't know, if it was something like Ethier and LaRoche it might not be bad.

236. Fat Al Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:09 PM (#2884605)

To fat Al, I think this deadline is pretty clearly different from preceding years, in what has been leaked to the press, or said outright, by both Manny and the front office. I don't see a relationship to salvage, and from watching the Sox recently, I think this is affecting the whole team's focus.

Maybe, but I had the same feeling when they waived him, and look how that turned out.

237. PJ Martinez Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2884607)

It's not about Manny, but, you know, whatever:

With the three-way deal between the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins falling through, an MLB.com source says that the Rays are going to acquire right-handed hitting outfielder Jason Bay for Minor League prospects including shortstop Reid Brignac and right-hander Jeff Niemann. The Rays have not confirmed the deal.

From trades.mlblogs.com/

238. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2884609)

I don't know, if it was something like Ethier and LaRoche it might not be bad.

Theo should definitely hold out for Kershaw as well.

239. Fat Al Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:12 PM (#2884617)

more on-topic rotoworld:

According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox feel they can't trade Brandon Moss for Ron Mahay because they need him as Manny Ramirez insurance.

The Royals are reportedly willing to make the deal straight up, but Moss might be Boston's best option in left field if Manny bails on the club.

240. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:14 PM (#2884625)

Bay to the Rays complete.

241. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:15 PM (#2884630)

Good trade for both teams.

What the #### are the Sox going to do?

242. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#2884637)

Miss the playoffs?

243. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:18 PM (#2884641)

What the #### are the Sox going to do?

Finish 2nd and make the Wild Card? I still think they're better than the Yankees, barring Operation Shutdown II: This Time, We're Manny

244. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:18 PM (#2884642)

What the #### are the Sox going to do?

Trade Manny for Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw. Gitrdone

245. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:19 PM (#2884645)

I don't really see that as a great trade for the Pirates. Niemann was the best pitching prospect they could get from Tampa? Meh.

246. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:20 PM (#2884650)

I'm a Sox fan, but good for the Rays and their fan(s). I still can't quite bring myself to cheer against them, unless they're playing Boston.

247. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:21 PM (#2884660)

Oh, I think Bay is a fantastic fit for Tampa. It's a good move for them, no doubt.

248. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:26 PM (#2884676)

Not looking like a good week for the Red Sox though. Both New York and Tampa got significantly better, while we did nothing. The Angels also made a big move (if we have to face them in the playoffs on the off chance we get there).

249. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:27 PM (#2884679)

If true, that is an absolute heist for Tampa Bay. Niemann will probably be decent, but Brignac hasn't been nearly as impressive since rising above A-ball.

250. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:27 PM (#2884680)

What the ####? Hopped into a 3 o'clock, come out and now Jason Bay is a Ray. Wow.

251. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:30 PM (#2884688)

Finish 2nd and make the Wild Card? I still think they're better than the Yankees, barring Operation Shutdown II: This Time, We're Manny

I hope they're the same team after the last week. If so, we're probably 60/40 to beat the Yankees.

It's not just Manny - though after a straight-up demand, I worry about his commitment for the next couple months, too - but also the rest of the team, who have been playing like they're waiting for / knew they needed a shakeup and the end of the drama. If there's no shakeup and the drama doesn't stop, I worry about the whole team as well.

252. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2884695)

You're right, MCoA. I'm trying to convince myself that things will be fine, but I'm skeptical. If they were 5 games better or 5 games worse, this deadline would have probably been a no-brainer (keep him in the former, dump him in the latter).

253. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2884696)

Couldn't agree more, MCoA. Nothing about the Red Sox feels championship caliber as currently constituted - right down to the way I think they perceive themselves.

254. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:36 PM (#2884707)

Don't worry, guys. I hear Freddy Garcia is available.

255. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:43 PM (#2884740)

Honestly, Manny and whatever else they want for Adam Dunn.

That's how to make this right.

256. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:44 PM (#2884744)

Heymann's now saying the Dodgers don't even want to trade Ethier, but instead prospects.

I don't know how I feel about that one.

257. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:45 PM (#2884747)

That parade of leaks just looks worse and worse as the deadline rolls in with no trades on the horizon. How badly did the team screw up the clubhouse only to have the same roster on August 1st?

Obviously Manny bears a large percentage of the blame, as an ethical matter, but the organization's job is to win games, not to win the moral reasoning olympics. I see no way that fighting Manny's fire with fire has been, or will be productive. Looks like people got angry and didn't think, or presumed they'd be able to make a trade that wasn't certain. In either case, that's a pretty significant miscalculation.

Obviously, it's possible that Manny will continue being Manny - he's been hitting this last week just fine - and that the rest of the team will be able to bear down now that there's no possibility of a trade. All the team has to do is win and the criticism of the front office dies down. (Not so much with Manny.)

258. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#2884767)

Before the Manny stuff really blew up this weekend, I was optimistic that they would add a bullpen arm and one of the Texas catchers. This is a very disappointing deadline.

259. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:50 PM (#2884770)

I'm really bummed right now.

260. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2884779)

...Edes on NESN says the Ray-Bay deal is not completed...

261. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2884783)

I think it's possible that the Red Sox are just in the middle of a random, horrible, poorly timed slump, and may bust out of it as one would expect a good team with a lot of talent to do. I know the whole Manny thing is probably upsetting to them, but the players are professionals, and most of them have seen crappy stuff before. They certainly look about as bad as I've seen them ever look, but the Yankees and Angels are good teams and sometimes that will happen. The Red Sox are still a good team, and (hopefully) a week or so of absolutely abysmal performance against some of the best teams in the league is within the realm of possibility for a good team.

262. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:53 PM (#2884787)

Is there anyone besides that one beat writer confirming the Bay deal? I would expect the big outlets to have picked it up by now, but there's not much.

263. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:55 PM (#2884795)

Looking around it seems at best unconfirmed.

264. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2884798)

ellsbury- hope so. you're certainly right that the team might be fine right now, and even if they aren't, they could become fine soon enough. The timing on last night's error-laden embarrassment, though, is some freaky luck if so.

265. The Marksist Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2884799)

Let the recriminations continue!! Media bloodbath!!! Hooray!!!!

266. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:57 PM (#2884805)

Robo strikes again:

The three-way Manny Ramirez blockbuster may be back on, with Pirates outfielder Jason Bay headed to the Red Sox, sources say.

267. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2884811)

I CAN'T TAKE THIS

268. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:59 PM (#2884812)

ALIVE!!

269. The Marksist Posted: July 31, 2008 at 06:59 PM (#2884814)

That's unpossible! It's 3:59.

270. The Marksist Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:00 PM (#2884817)

BP's server appears to be freaking out.

271. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:00 PM (#2884818)

Holy ####.

272. jmurph Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:00 PM (#2884822)

I CAN'T TAKE THIS

Seriously, thank God I don't get paid by the widget, or I'd have been working for free today.

273. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:00 PM (#2884823)

Let the recriminations [s]begin[/s] continue!! Media bloodbath!!! Hooray!!!!

Let me be the first to blame the evil Lucchino, and note that Theo is a dreamy genius with a pure heart who has a trade that would solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict if Lucchino would let him, but he can't tell anyone about it.

274. mopar Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:01 PM (#2884829)

I really don't care if they move MANNY or not but this circus has kept Team GM from focusing on adding a reliever and fixing a pathetic bench

275. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2884838)

What's wrong with the bench?

276. Sexy Lizard Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:05 PM (#2884849)

Splinters?

277. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:06 PM (#2884855)

Gammons said it's off on ESPN... everyone on NESN is still waiting and has no reports either way...

278. Big Train Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:07 PM (#2884857)

smartest thing baseball ever did, moving the deadline to 4 PM.

279. The Marksist Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:07 PM (#2884861)

OMFG. Just kill me and end my pain.

280. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:08 PM (#2884866)

If Griffey to the White Sox was the biggest deadline deal, that has to be an all-time low, no?

281. mopar Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2884883)

Cash - lousy
Casey - good pinch hitter against RHs only, can't play in the field
Cora - lousy

Crisp - good, should be starting more often but then it's Ellsbury, another lefty bat

Part of the problem is they've been forced to go with 12 pitchers but that is a pathetic abomination of a bench for a team with as much payroll flexibility as the Red Sox have. Francona takes a lot of heat for getting outmaneuvered by other managers but he doesn't have the pieces to compete

282. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2884893)

Casey hits lefties fine, and plays a fine first base. Cash is fine for a backup catcher.

Cora is the only guy on the bench who needs to be replaced.

283. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:15 PM (#2884912)

If you add Coco or Ellsbury to the bench mix, it doesn't look so bad.

Yeah, Cora's lousy in the field lately, but c'mon, he's got a friggin' 372 OBP! That's better than half the starters!

284. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:19 PM (#2884923)

285. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:19 PM (#2884924)

Um, so, did anything with Bay happen? Sox? Rays? Anyone?

286. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.

Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:20 PM (#2884929)

Yes...it's coming. Had to delete...

It's good.

287. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:20 PM (#2884932)

We got Bay.

LAD got Manny.

I am sure it will be out soon.

For realsies?

288. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:20 PM (#2884933)

Edes on NESN: Manny was traded.

289. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:21 PM (#2884940)

Head, assploding...

290. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:22 PM (#2884944)

Jesus Christballs.

Marc Sully has the initial report. Iron Law sez: not Bay, Ethier

291. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:23 PM (#2884946)

If Theo pulled this off while cutting out Florida as a big FU, that's just...Michael Corleonesque.

292. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:23 PM (#2884951)

Ethier! That can't be!

I mean, it can't be. Dealing Manny for a guy with a ton of potential but who (a) isn't close to Manny right now, even current and (b) makes the Sox more lefty is just bizarre

293. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:23 PM (#2884952)

Manny Ramirez and Buchholz for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones?

294. Chip Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:23 PM (#2884953)

Edes reporting it; meanwhile Cafardo is giving his best Elmer Fudd impression on NESN: can't tell us how many teams are involved, can't tell us which teams are involved. "It's very confusing."

295. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:24 PM (#2884956)

Jennifer Langosch, MLB.com reports Bay to the Dodgers. WTF?

296. Dan Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:25 PM (#2884962)

My guess is that the Dodgers became the third part instead of Florida, with Bay still going to Boston.

297. Chip Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:26 PM (#2884964)

Cafardo now says Bay is coming to Boston, but doesn't know any of the other details.

298. The Marksist Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:27 PM (#2884966)

*cerebral hemorrhage*

299. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:27 PM (#2884970)

MAKE UP YOUR FRAKKING MINDS DAMMIT

300. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 31, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2884975)

My guess is that the Dodgers became the third part instead of Florida, with Bay still going to Boston.

That makes more sense.

If Theo pulled this off while cutting out Florida as a big FU, that's just...Michael Corleonesque.

Sounds like Theo might've ultimately saved Florida from themselves

Page 3 of 5 pages < 1 2 3 4 5 >

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

<< Back to main

Reader Comments and Retorts

Support BBTF

Bookmarks

Hot Topics

Syndicate