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I laughed.
I'm punchy as hell.
No, YOU come on!
From *shudder* Fox Sports.
Or very bad.
Because probably the players in the Dodgers minor league system had no idea they were about to be traded. It's really just common courtesy, I would guess.
"A whole bunch of #### is going to happen next year, and OMG WE GOT MANNY WHO CARES!"
There's no way you can do that without knowing who the prospects are. Bay > Manny, straight up. If LA is giving up the best of the prospects, this is a win for both Boston and Pittsburgh.
Magnum. My god, it's beautiful.
Big if, though.
I am now laughing.
Ah, they did get LaRoche! Hey, a good major league player! Let me look up these other guys...
Cafardo has the same names as Robo.
Lou Merloni, showing his lack of baseball expertise, thinks the Red Sox gave up too much and the Dodgers gave up nothing.
The point I was making is there are people (Kay and some folks here) who believe that Manny is clearly superior to Bay. Kay went as far as to say that this deal sinks the Sox' chances.
Who will pitch the 8th?
Based on how often Kay gets it right, I'd feel real good about Boston's chances now.
and the salary difference, I am assuming.
I know Mike Mussina is dancing the jig right now.
Sure, but Manny seems to be in uber-idiot mode now, and there's no guarantee he was going to come out of it as long as he was with the Sox.
Aside from picking on Kay, don't you think that Manny (when he's not being an idiot) is a better hitter than Bay?
He *was*, certainly, better than Bay will likely ever be. (EDIT: And was so for a long time)
I think whether he *is*, right now, is very open to question.
Better hitter than Bay? Yes, but not by much and I think Bay's overall value as a player is probably about the same maybe better.
Agree Dan - especially over the next few months.
Exactly what I was thinking. When you take the $$$$ for 2009 into account, it's almost no contest. Bay is super cheap for his production level, you get a year to try to extend him if you want or use the savings (from not having to pick up Manny's option) to reload without having to replace.
Come on, that's a *bit* rosy, no? Manny is still capable of being amazing at the plate, and it's not like he hasn't spouted off before, gone in a funk, and then come back perfectly fine.
Craig Hansen: 24 year old reliever that can't pitch in the AL but I suppose might survive as a middle reliever in the NL. Worthless.
Well, b-ref is pretty much down thanks to the blitz of everyone looking up these same guys right now, so there's not much I can do. I'll check back later. I'm pretty sure Brandon Moss will make a nice fourth outfielder and nothing more, yet another of the kind of player the Pirates don't need. Presumably he'll slot in to start in LF straight away. They'd be better off putting a Brian Bocock type out there and losing as many games as possible, IMO.
Look at the year Manny had last year. Look at his K rate. Try again.
He had a busted knee.
Look closely at Manny's slash stats for the past two seasons. He's capable of spurts of the old Manny, but he's no longer anything close to the .300/.400/.600+ beast he was for a while.
What what they said about David Murphy. And Brandon Moss has much better power than Murphy.
This doesn't make the Red Sox better, per se, but it shakes things up and moves Manny without hurting the team on the field. Well done, Theo.
Manny may be fantastic for the next two months, but he might not.
Agreed
Better? Not buying it. As good as? Sure, not better though.
Andy LaRoche: Good major league third baseman.
Craig Hansen: Middle reliever that can't pitch in the AL but might hold a job in the NL if everything goes right.
Brandon Moss: Fourth outfielder that's pretty much done developing. He'll provide value in LF to help the Pirates lose only 94 games instead of 96, and that's about all he'll ever do for them.
Bryan Morris: 21 years old, in A ball, already lost one entire season to injury, 72 K and 31 BB in 81 innings. Not a prospect.
It's kind of underwhelming, but I don't doubt this was the best offer on the table for Bay. Morris and Hansen are totally pointless, but the Pirates are stockpiling mediocre relievers that will never be anything more than mediocre relievers, so clearly the two things they wanted in this deal were that, and a plausible guy to play in LF in Bay's place. They got that, so they're satisfied. I'm just pretty skeptical this trade is going to help the Pirates field a winning team in 2011.
Really? I find your evaluations of minor leaguers to be quite entertaining.
Still, though, this is a tough situation to go into.
I was wrong. I did not think it would happen.
Give me a break. He's not that far off it this year. He's at .400 and .530 in a "down" year and was at that in 2006. And, his K rate has never been as bad as Bay's. The guy's a monster hitter, which is why for years Sox fans have been rationalizing his LF D. The only question, and it's an enormously significant one, was whether his relationship w/the team was reparable. Obviously, the team determined it wasn't. I agree this is a good deal in that context, but I remain of the view that Boston w/Bay in the lineup is a significantly less frightening team than w/Manny there.
Why? This situation is tailor-made for spending all that excess revenue. Much better use of it than overpaying for a past-his-prime FA.
I guess that's OK for them
all I can say, as a Yankees fan, is that the Sox might be just as good this year and going forward, but holy #### am I glad not to see Manny 15 times every year.
Manny's OPS+ over the last two seasons is about 133. Since when is that a monster hitter?
What?! The site is down. Oh ####!
Yeah, he played through a knee injury. It damn near crippled him in the field. At the time he claimed it didn't affect his batting, but given his bounceback this year that seems to be the most likely explanation.
Bay seems to be completely fine. The only statistical marker that's even slightly troubling is that HitTracker claims he's hit a lot of lucky homers, but I think that's just a byproduct of the way he hits them -- they're almost all towering fly balls that just keep carrying. The man is strong.
I don't see how paying two prorated months of Manny's contract hurts this deal. Particularly when two months of Bay's contract is about $2 million.
I guess you could look at it as paying an extra two mill, but getting a guy off your team that didn't want to be there and only taking a slight downgrade in LF (offensively, that is).
take out appearances against Mussina and Pettite, and he is a subreplacement player.
Papi took a holiday in April hitting 3 for 1000, then Manny went crazy trying to hit 500, then as he hit 500 , Papi decided to get hurt.
I think this trade gives the team (which the last few weeks is looking like a train wreck) a chance to wake up and make a move to the playoffs. I think this is the shake up they needed...
Not sure I agree, but at least he's a prospect. Very weird though to take LaRoche when they just drafted Alvarez.
Exactly. I don't understand the point of him in this deal except to add bulk, which is ridiculous.
It's not clear to me that he's even as good as Steven Pearce. Moss is probably 4th on the Pirate depth chart for OF behind McLouth, Pearce and McCutchen right now, and if Tabata pans out, Moss drops to *5th*.
To sum up, the Pirates traded for a middle reliever, a 5th OF and a guy who plays the same position as their future star 1st round draft pick (and blocks the path of their FORMER 1st round draft pick catcher-turned-third baseman AND leaves them in a weird position as to what do with Jose Bautista, who has not had a terrible year).
Reading around a bit, Morris looks like a very good prospect and live arm, but he only has like 35-40 starts in professional baseball after missing last year to injury.
I would have rather had Niemann and Brainiac.
Boston with Bay in the outfield is also significantly less frightening.
Dodgers could make run at NL West
Red Sox no change still fighting TB/NYY for AL East or Wild Card
Pirates could reach .500 record next year or not.
My AL only fantasy team - decimated.
Likewise Morris, he was a first-round draft pick, throws in the mid-90s with a hammer curve rated plus by BA. He may not pan out, but he has upside.
And of course, LaRoche, who is already a major league quality 3B, has some of the best power potential in all of the minor leagues. Moss is the only one who probably won't be more than a bit above average, but he's also pretty likely to be a competent major leaguer.
Upside is what the Littlefield Pirates didn't understand, and Huntington clearly does. I'd be really happy about this trade if I were a Pirates fan.
It's Magnum and it's beautiful. Moss and Hansen are very fungible.
I don't disagree with this, but I guess this means the end of the "Manny's a great LFer in Boston's quirky LF" stuff and the beginning of the historical revision of his D.
What is wrong with you, man? I realize that you've already decided that the Pirates are trying to lose, but try to be objective. Hansen and Moss are pretty useless, I agree, though I think coming into the season Moss and Nady were not far apart in long term value. Morris is a high-ceiling first round pick who appears to have recovered almost completely from TJ surgery; he is a groundball machine, and his other peripherals should improve as he shakes the rust off.
Well, it's a good thing you aren't the Pirates GM then.
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