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Piecing together the Starlin Castro thread deletion
Posted: 20 February 2012 09:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 151 ]

Sorry, Jim, but Dan did the absolute minimum. It read like pure CYA stuff and was as genuine as the pleather on my $10 sneakers.

- cmon boy
what do you expect, him to fall on his sword or something?
it’s a hell of a lot more apology than i have seen from 99.9% of males on this here site who needed to apologise and wouldn’t

it looked real to me

That people are interested in reviewing what happened after hours of their work and thought was deleted shouldn’t surprise you in the least.

- they are because too damm many people can’t accept an apology, go click on googlecache and let it go
holding grudges is self defeating

Common sense suggests you let people air their grievances without clapping your hands after 130 posts and saying ‘that’s enough you spoiled brats. Time for bed!

- the grievances were aired
the person responsible took responsibility and apologised

there is a time that enough is enough

there is a time to let things go. before even more things get said that can’t be unsaid

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i’m a man, yes i am and i can’t help but love it so

Posted: 20 February 2012 09:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 152 ]
Avatar
base ball chick - 20 February 2012 09:20 PM
Jim Furtado - 20 February 2012 12:54 PM

With the site and CMS changes it really doesn’t matter whether the Lounge is in the Forum or within the main part of the site. I can now more easily hide content from Google and non-members than I could before. With the better server setup and advances in caching that I am integrating into the new site design, it really doesn’t matter to me where/how the Lounge is set up. As a matter of fact, I probably could better blend the Lounge and the rest of the site if it was moved back within the main CMS.

If someone wants to make this a Feature Request/discussion, I invite you to create a thread about it in the appropriate forum. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter to me. If people want it to change, however, they need to tell me fairly soon.

- if it is possible to move the lounge out of the forums, PLEASE PLEASE do it. it is incredibly hard for some of us - especially with reading problems - to follow the lounge in the forum format

For what it’s worth, a number of lounges have commented on this, and so far they’re all against moving the lounge.

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Everybody’s doing it…

My retirement plan

Posted: 20 February 2012 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 153 ]
Paul D (AKA The Other Canadian) - 20 February 2012 09:44 PM
base ball chick - 20 February 2012 09:20 PM
Jim Furtado - 20 February 2012 12:54 PM

With the site and CMS changes it really doesn’t matter whether the Lounge is in the Forum or within the main part of the site. I can now more easily hide content from Google and non-members than I could before. With the better server setup and advances in caching that I am integrating into the new site design, it really doesn’t matter to me where/how the Lounge is set up. As a matter of fact, I probably could better blend the Lounge and the rest of the site if it was moved back within the main CMS.

If someone wants to make this a Feature Request/discussion, I invite you to create a thread about it in the appropriate forum. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter to me. If people want it to change, however, they need to tell me fairly soon.

- if it is possible to move the lounge out of the forums, PLEASE PLEASE do it. it is incredibly hard for some of us - especially with reading problems - to follow the lounge in the forum format

For what it’s worth, a number of lounges have commented on this, and so far they’re all against moving the lounge.

WHY???????????

the forum setup SUX

is it because of the google thingy or just wanting to keep me out

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i’m a man, yes i am and i can’t help but love it so

Posted: 20 February 2012 10:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 154 ]
Avatar
Designated Sitter (GGC) - 20 February 2012 08:41 PM
Dan Szymborski - 20 February 2012 12:57 PM
Justin T contains indigenous nudity - 20 February 2012 12:42 PM
Jim Furtado - 20 February 2012 12:40 PM

And again, some of the most popular content on the site have *no* discussion.

Can you send GGC an email saying this?

I’ve been telling him this for years but I don’t think he believes me.  Comment counts and responses correlate very poorly with readership count and interest and that’s not just here.

What really stinks is that he tends to get discouraged by the lack of arguments over his work.

Nah, what was really discouraging was applying for Notgraphs and not hearing back.  I wouldn’t expect BPro to come calling,  Larry Granillo fills my niche, and Grantland isn’t looking for new writers.  But I figure my stuff would be perfect for Carson Cistulli and company.  At least tell me “Thanks, but no thanks.”  Also, Designated Sitter didn’t seem to get too many visitors. 

Anyways, time has become tighter for me over the past couple of years.  When I have been writing lately, I’ve been working on a war memoir.

You expected Dave Cameron to make a good decision?

What the hell were you smoking?

Posted: 20 February 2012 10:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 155 ]
Avatar
base ball chick - 20 February 2012 10:19 PM
Paul D (AKA The Other Canadian) - 20 February 2012 09:44 PM
base ball chick - 20 February 2012 09:20 PM
Jim Furtado - 20 February 2012 12:54 PM

With the site and CMS changes it really doesn’t matter whether the Lounge is in the Forum or within the main part of the site. I can now more easily hide content from Google and non-members than I could before. With the better server setup and advances in caching that I am integrating into the new site design, it really doesn’t matter to me where/how the Lounge is set up. As a matter of fact, I probably could better blend the Lounge and the rest of the site if it was moved back within the main CMS.

If someone wants to make this a Feature Request/discussion, I invite you to create a thread about it in the appropriate forum. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter to me. If people want it to change, however, they need to tell me fairly soon.

- if it is possible to move the lounge out of the forums, PLEASE PLEASE do it. it is incredibly hard for some of us - especially with reading problems - to follow the lounge in the forum format

For what it’s worth, a number of lounges have commented on this, and so far they’re all against moving the lounge.

WHY???????????

the forum setup SUX

is it because of the google thingy or just wanting to keep me out

I"m sure it’s not to keep you out.  It’s more the google thing and the format that people like.

 Signature 

Everybody’s doing it…

My retirement plan

Posted: 21 February 2012 03:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 156 ]

 

Posted: 21 February 2012 03:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 157 ]
Something Other - 21 February 2012 03:05 AM

@something other, really? I have known Dan for 15 years. I also directly discussed this matter with him. When he apologized, he meant it. For you to dismiss it out of hand says something about you.

Please stop. An authentic apology for throwing out people’s work reads entirely differently from the thoroughly generic fluff Dan put out.

Please accept Dan’s apology at face value, take responsibility for your own culpability, and move on.

Yes, my lone post (#140) in 24 hours on this thread and only post since Dan’s apology, giving my opinion of it and of your imperious reply—and your continuing insinuations that this was anything other than a moderator run amok—is the very definition of obsessive madness.

Sigh.

there is a time to let things go. before even more things get said that can’t be unsaid

As I noted, I posted once in 24 hours, giving my opinion and expressing my sincere disappointment. Somehow, that was worth you and Jim getting upset about, wagging your metaphorical fingers, and carrying on about it while deploring the continuation of the thread.

Sigh.

Posted: 21 February 2012 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 158 ]
Administrator

@something other: You should review our Terms of Service. As a reminder I take no role in individual conflict resolution. In this particular case, I have intervened because a site moderator took an action, deleting a thread he was involved in, which was against my editorial policy. I spoke with him and he clearly understands my feelings. Our discussion satisfied my concerns as the owner of the site. He then took the step of apologizing to the members of the site. This wasn’t something I required of him. He did it because he’s a good guy and felt it was the right thing to do. Ultimately, I am satisfied that an appropriate resolution of this has been found. I don’t believe we’ll see a repeat of the problem.

Now, you are asking me to somehow address your hurt feelings. I don’t get involved in those types of issues. There are literally thousands of members of the site and I neither have the time or desire to get involved in the personal interactions between users. As I said, that’s between you and Dan. If you too can find some common ground to work out your differences, that’s great for you and Dan, but it doesn’t really concern me *as long as the two of you let it go and don’t bother other users by continuing to snipe at each other in other threads on the site.* If that happens, however, I will take addition steps.

Posted: 21 February 2012 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 159 ]
Jim Furtado - 21 February 2012 08:30 AM

@something other: You should review our Terms of Service. As a reminder I take no role in individual conflict resolution. In this particular case, I have intervened because a site moderator took an action, deleting a thread he was involved in, which was against my editorial policy. I spoke with him and he clearly understands my feelings. Our discussion satisfied my concerns as the owner of the site. He then took the step of apologizing to the members of the site. This wasn’t something I required of him. He did it because he’s a good guy and felt it was the right thing to do. Ultimately, I am satisfied that an appropriate resolution of this has been found. I don’t believe we’ll see a repeat of the problem.

Jim, since this is hardly the first time that this has happened, wouldn’t one obvious way of ensuring that it won’t happen again be to take the shutdown button out of Dan’s hands?  Or at the very least, require him to get your permission to shut down a thread?  Why is someone who’s repeatedly abused his power given the power to do it even one more time? 

If you want to believe promises, I admire your faith in your friend, and perhaps in your place I’d do the same thing.  But if you want to believe the clear evidence of past behavior, then leaving a unilateral shutdown switch in the hands of someone like this is just asking for a repeat performance at some point down the road.

One further point of inquiry about the new format.  On many past occasions, a political thread that has been going on peacefully and civilly for many pages will be interrupted by a claim that it was “hijacked” from whatever the ostensible point of the thread was when it began.  Often it’s the same few people who voice these complaints, even as they also interject their own political opinions into the mix.  (Lovely irony.)

My question is this:  Are people like that going to be given the power (by complaining) to force a thread off everyone’s Hot Topics page and into the Forums, no matter that they’ve always had the power to ignore the thread?  Or is the new setup merely going to allow these complainers the power to remove the thread from their own Hot Topics column?  The latter option moves the site in a positive direction, whereas the former option is downright poisonous, as it gives a veto power to a small group of determined people. 

I apologize in advance if I’ve misinterpreted anything you’ve written about this, but I would appreciate a clarification.  I come to BTF to participate in free flowing discussions on the main page, on all sorts of topics.  I don’t come to BTF to be told to “take it to the Forum” because a handful of anonymous grouches don’t want certain topics to be discussed anywhere else.

 

Posted: 21 February 2012 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 160 ]
Avatar
Paul D (AKA The Other Canadian) - 20 February 2012 09:44 PM
base ball chick - 20 February 2012 09:20 PM
Jim Furtado - 20 February 2012 12:54 PM

With the site and CMS changes it really doesn’t matter whether the Lounge is in the Forum or within the main part of the site. I can now more easily hide content from Google and non-members than I could before. With the better server setup and advances in caching that I am integrating into the new site design, it really doesn’t matter to me where/how the Lounge is set up. As a matter of fact, I probably could better blend the Lounge and the rest of the site if it was moved back within the main CMS.

If someone wants to make this a Feature Request/discussion, I invite you to create a thread about it in the appropriate forum. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter to me. If people want it to change, however, they need to tell me fairly soon.

- if it is possible to move the lounge out of the forums, PLEASE PLEASE do it. it is incredibly hard for some of us - especially with reading problems - to follow the lounge in the forum format

For what it’s worth, a number of lounges have commented on this, and so far they’re all against moving the lounge.

If you are referring to the thread CrosbyBird set up, this is not true. I think it would be better to integrate the Lounge with the Main Site so that, for example, it appeared in Hot-Topics-with-Ignore-Capability. However, I would not want to lose the non-searchability, nor the Forum-style approach to attributed quotes, which is far superior to the Main Site non-attributed method. These two elements are more important to me than the integration. And it seems they are to you, too.

From time to time, the Lounge starts muttering about the absence of new blood. I don’t take these whines seriously, because an influx of new blood would upset too many people round there. (“Nobody goes there any more; it’s too crowded.”) But some kind of integration would be better, in that respect.

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cupiditas radix omnium malorum est

simili ulisse JLAC domi est

Libera JLACem nunc!

Posted: 21 February 2012 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 161 ]

Forums like this are going to wind up being grist for historians in the future.(*)  We don’t keep diaries anymore and we don’t write letters anymore—places like this are where we communicate.

That should be kept in mind.  It’s disconcerting to see our thoughts and writings vanished.

(*) If you’re looking for evidence of the fissures in American politics among the educated and literate demographic in the early 21st century—how people essentially spoke a different language and partisanship ascended, you can do a helluva lot worse than some of the threads here. 

Posted: 21 February 2012 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 162 ]

Vlad, Im glad you liked my stuff.  Its too bad I wasn’t able to impress someone in a position to pay me.. Studes was an exception. bless his heart.  I suppose it might be because my stuff wont help people win games.  some guys are able to write in that niche, but spots are limited at the paying sites.

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Designated Sitter: Occasionally brilliant, always astigamatic.

Posted: 21 February 2012 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 163 ]
Administrator

@SugarBear, it has always been my policy not to delete threads. At times when the discussion gets out of hand I prefer to close the thread to future comments. Of course, I reserve the right to remove threads from view (closing, not deleting from the database) if I find the content is offensive to a majority of members of the site (linking of porn, graphic discussions of sex, etc.) or to me personally. I also reserve the right to temporarily close threads if an issue gets brought to light that I believe requires investigation. Lastly, I reserve the right to allow other moderators to temporarily close threads when I am not available and to keep them closed until I get a chance to review them. I know that my decisions have not and will not always be agreeable to every member of the site. Ultimately, though, I have responsibility for what happens on the site and will do what I think best.

@Jolly, I don’t recall a thread ever being deleted. Yes, threads have been closed, but not deleted. As I said in the prior paragraph, moderators have my permission to use their judgement to temporarily close threads when necessary. They don’t have my permission to delete threads. I consider the recent thread closing an isolated incident. If I am proven wrong (and I don’t believe I will be), I will address any change in circumstance when it happens.

My track record is clear in not wanting to give “a veto power to a small group of determined people” for anything. People will be able to mark a thread as off-topic. At a certain threshold, the thread will come to the attention of editors, who may flag it as off-topic so that it won’t be displayed *to members who don’t choose to include off-topic material in their Hot Topics.* The thread will continue to appear in the Hot Topics of members to choose to view off-topic threads.

Once the redesign is in place, the practice of moving threads to the forums will be discontinued. I’ll also be increasing the number of catch-all off-topic threads. The basketball, football, and soccer catch-all threads seem to work out well. A political catch-all thread should work out as well.

In the second phase of my re-design, I will test the ability to post basketball, football, and political news. The content will not be available on the front page but will available in a dedicated off-topic area of the site. Members will also be able to subscribe to this content and view it on their personalized homepage. 

Posted: 21 February 2012 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 164 ]

The content will not be available on the front page but will available in a dedicated off-topic area of the site. Members will also be able to subscribe to this content and view it on their personalized homepage.

As long as it’s on the main page architecture and not the forum architecture, this is an okay solution.


Btw:  threads have been deleted before.

Posted: 21 February 2012 11:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 165 ]
tshipman - 21 February 2012 11:02 AM

Btw:  threads have been deleted before.

Absolutely.  And when questioned about the deletions, Dan took the same stance he took at the start of this conversation—“who are you to question my decisions, you have no rights here!”  The fact that Dan seems to delight in unexplained deletions (expressed not just in this thread but in the past) only adds fuel to the fire.  In the past, I suggested that my posts are valuable to me, and I’d like some notice if they’re going to be erased.  This concern was just mocked and dismissed outright . 

Jim, I understand if you didn’t know that Dan has done this in the past, but perhaps knowing that will help you see why so many of us reacted so strongly, and why we don’t have confidence that this’ll be the last time there’ll be a hissy-fit inspired deletion when a conversation takes a turn that doesn’t suit him.

   
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