BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Mets (45-42) @ Dodgers (37-51), Thursday, July 7, 2011, 10:10pm

Reader Comments and Retorts

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1. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:10 AM (#3871492)

I gotta say, a four-game sweep would be nice.

And, I have both of these pitchers starting for my fantasy team.

2. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:24 AM (#3871504)

Wow.

Murphy's defensive skills in the infield are so much the inverse of what we saw in the outfield that it's almost shocking.

3. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:39 AM (#3871515)

Good god what an atrocious call.

4. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:43 AM (#3871521)

I usually defend the umpires, but that was unbelievable.

5. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:44 AM (#3871523)

What happened? I just turned it on to see Collins yelling.

6. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:45 AM (#3871525)

The one thing I'll say is that it's a weird looking play - the throw almost never comes in that high, the slide was weird, and the tag doesn't usually smack the runner's knee while it's flying through the air. But ... it was still atrocious.

7. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:53 AM (#3871529)

And the horrible fundamentals of the Dodgers continues.

8. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 02:56 AM (#3871532)

Haha, Alderson saying no chance in hell K-Rod is here next year. Well, not saying, but that seems to be his implication.

9. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:02 AM (#3871535)

Jesus, the Braves are never gonna lose again.

10. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:03 AM (#3871536)

Murphy ranges well in the infield, but his arm is not legit.

11. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:07 AM (#3871540)

Banta, re: #5 - flyball to medium deep leftfield, Uribe tagging at third, Bay makes a long loopy toss, Paulino catches it on the fly at about waist high, and Uribe runs into Paulino's glove while making a very bouncy dive into the plate. He was clearly out.

12. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:10 AM (#3871542)

I feel sorry for Kemp, by the way. He seems so absurdly superior to his teammates, but he also has this morose attitude. He is surrounded by death.

13. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:14 AM (#3871546)

I must say, I don't think I could stand Vin Scully for 162 games. Sure, he's a treasure, but the incessant storytelling... during Evans' last AB he could barely narrate the action because he was so excited to tell us that Evans grew up somewhat near Clayton Kershaw.

14. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:23 AM (#3871554)

Thanks for the description, PF.

That play seems to be looming pretty large for the moment.

15. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:28 AM (#3871557)

And Uribe reached third after Gee threw what should have been a double play ball into leftfield. Frustrating run to watch score.

16. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:28 AM (#3871558)

I'd be getting frustrated about the offense in this game, but I know that Kershaw is awesome, so it seems about right.

17. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:28 AM (#3871559)

Uh, way to make him work, guys.

18. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:34 AM (#3871564)

I know I was making fun of Thole's arm last night, but Paulino ain't looking too good out there either tonight.

19. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:34 AM (#3871565)

Yuck. What are our opinions on Tejada's defense? He looks reasonable to me, but not particularly impressive.

20. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#3871568)

Tsk. BABIP gods not with us on that one.

Oh, and a bad pitch location, too, a mistake.

21. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#3871569)

I've decided to not have any opinions on Tejada until he hits puberty.

But yeah, he seems solidly above average out there. Any more is unknown.

Ugh. I don't really have a good feeling about this game.

22. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:42 AM (#3871571)

Yuck. What are our opinions on Tejada's defense? He looks reasonable to me, but not particularly impressive.

Really? His defense on hit balls has been excellent. He gets to a lot of grounders even Cohen says only Reyes would possibly have a chance at. Good arm, too.

23. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:44 AM (#3871573)

In fact, I think I'm gonna be a quitter and go to sleep. I could use some anyway. These west coast games are starting to muck with my cycles. And you don't wanna see me uncycled.

Good luck with the comeback.

24. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:44 AM (#3871574)

Lassus: Cool. Hope I'm wrong.

25. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:45 AM (#3871575)

He gets to a lot of grounders even Cohen says only Reyes would possibly have a chance at.

Reyes isn't anymore than solidly above-average either. And that's sort of with my fanboy glasses on, since I think most of the metrics have him averagish the last several years.

26. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:47 AM (#3871576)

I think he is still prone to brainfarts, but he hasn't....

Good lord, WTF was that, Pagan?

27. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:48 AM (#3871577)

I'm so hot and cold on defensive metrics, I don't know what to do with myself. That Jeter thread has mushed my mind.

28. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:50 AM (#3871578)

I hate to be grandpa Simpson onion-on-beltesque, but I have yet to be convinced by a single advanced defensive metric. Not one.

29. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:51 AM (#3871579)

Angel Pagan had 2.2 dWAR last year. This year he has -.5.

And his nickname is "Crazy Horse"???

30. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:51 AM (#3871580)

Well, this is going poorly.

31. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:51 AM (#3871581)

And that triple was Beltran's fault.

32. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:52 AM (#3871583)

I basically ignore defensive metrics. There's a good thread from a few years ago where I complained that UZR had given Roger Cedeno a positive rating in centerfield. That was the year that Art Howe declared that he would never play the position again in early May.

33. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:53 AM (#3871584)

I'm not convinced by any metric either, I tend to average 'em all together, then factor in my eyeballs, throw it all in a bag, spit it in, mix it up, and then forget what I did in the first place.

34. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:55 AM (#3871585)

Was UZR the one that had Murphy as above-average in left field?

35. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:55 AM (#3871586)

HOWEVER, I will say that Pagan has been visibly worse in the outfield this year. He got way old really fast.

36. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:56 AM (#3871587)

I really can't fault the Mets for not completing a four-game sweep against one of the league's best pitchers.

37. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:57 AM (#3871588)

I tend to put players in 3 camps: bad, OK, good.

Only really exceptional players, like Endy Chavez or Todd Hundley (the LFer), will rate above or below that scale.

38. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 03:58 AM (#3871589)

Defense will probably never be able to be measured with any sort of accuracy as the samples will never be large enough. I mean, it's said you need 3 years of data to get any reasonable amount of conclusions without a ton of noise, and over three years, a player's true talent can shift pretty substantially. You're chasing a ghost.

39. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:00 AM (#3871591)

Lassus, I totally agree about Pagan. He looks worse this year.

But, I'm not convinced he was 2+ wins better last year. That seems high to me.

40. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:00 AM (#3871592)

Only really exceptional players, like Endy Chavez or Todd Hundley (the LFer), will rate above or below that scale.

Before Beltran's injury, I'd definitely have to rate him above Endy.

41. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:03 AM (#3871594)

Before Beltran's injury, I'd definitely have to rate him above Endy.

I could not disagree more about that. Beltran was good. Endy was amazing.

And I really don't think THE CATCH is coloring my opinion. He just took perfect routes with really good speed. And his arm wasn't shabby either.

42. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:08 AM (#3871595)

You know, I'll concede that Beltran's such a hard player to evaluate though. His graceful gliding always made it seem like he was covering less ground than he actually was.

Who does Tony Gwynn think he is? Tony Gwynn?

43. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:09 AM (#3871596)

Cohen, almost no one in San Francisco had any guilt over rooting for Bonds. Please shut up.

44. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:10 AM (#3871598)

"And now, Giants fans can root for their team without the guilt." -Cohen, referring to Bonds

What a jackass. I cannot imagine what possesses a person to take cheapshots like that.

45. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:11 AM (#3871599)

Darling's "Yeah... <nervous laughter>" in response to Cohen was pretty good.

46. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:14 AM (#3871602)

It was fun watching Andruw Jones track down a tricky flyball in leftfield last weekend. He's fat and slow but still a gorgeous fielder.

I would rate Endy above Beltran, but it's close, and I'm not terribly confident about it. I personally find it easy to become extremely impressed with players that don't stick that long. Like Pokey Reese, or, heck, Shinjo! Maybe increased exposure leads to boredom which leads to me underrating the veterans like Beltran.

47. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:14 AM (#3871603)

Alright, Lassus, PF, take it easy.

48. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:15 AM (#3871604)

Cohen is like two different announcers. The fun, knowledgeable, excited fan, and then the righteously snappish wordy tool who gets a bug up his ass and refuses to shut up about it. Hit latter persona is basically unlistenable.

49. Banta Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:16 AM (#3871605)

Shinjo!

Yeah, he was good, too. I'd rank 'em Endy, Beltran, then Shinjo though, but wouldn't bet on any of that.

Leaving for real now!

50. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:16 AM (#3871607)

I miss Shinjo, he was fun to root for.

51. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:19 AM (#3871610)

Shinjo was a joy. Did you ever see the video of his last game in Japan? IIRC, he descends from the top of a dome atop a disco ball.

52. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:27 AM (#3871616)

Isn't it about time for Turner to hit a HR?

53. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:29 AM (#3871618)

Turner, WTF are you swinging at? I was kidding about the HR, but that was stupid.

54. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:29 AM (#3871619)

I think Turner was replaced with Emaus at some point in the last month.

55. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:31 AM (#3871620)

Tejada looked out. Bad jump. Stupid play.

56. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:32 AM (#3871622)

I don't understand what Darling was looking at. He claimed to prove himself right by simply ignoring the replay.

57. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:33 AM (#3871624)

The glove was down on the outfield side of Tejada's hand, or maybe on the base. It may have been a stupid decision, but iI think it was a good call.

58. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:35 AM (#3871625)

That would have been nice, but I admit I didn't see it happening.

59. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:37 AM (#3871628)

Well. Kershaw is terrific and 3 out of 4 is a great series. The lack of Reyes has made this team immediately much less interesting though. And just in time for me to see them in person as they make their annual SF trip.

60. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:41 AM (#3871635)

Nice play by Turner.

Let's see if I'm rewarded for staying up with a 7-run miracle.

61. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:49 AM (#3871640)

Yes. The rally is coming.

62. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:53 AM (#3871642)

I don't really like Duda's chances against Kuo, but at least this is kind of interesting.

63. Lassus Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:56 AM (#3871647)

I wish Duda were better.

64. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 04:58 AM (#3871651)

Yes, that would be convenient. I also wish that Ike Davis was not in a wheelchair.

65. PreservedFish Posted: July 08, 2011 at 05:01 AM (#3871654)

Bah.

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