BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Padres (51-64) @ Mets (56-57), Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:10pm

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Monday, August 08, 2011

Padres (51-64) @ Mets (56-57), Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:10pm

SDP: Tim Stauffer (29, RHP, 7-8, 2.96)
NYM: Mike Pelfrey (27, RHP, 6-9, 4.48)

The Primer Chimp Posted: August 08, 2011 at 01:00 PM | 53 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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1. Lassus Posted: August 08, 2011 at 06:33 PM (#3895514)

In case anyone hadn't heard, Murphy out for the year.

2. AJM Posted: August 08, 2011 at 10:57 PM (#3895718)

And Reyes is on the DL again. This season has sucked.

3. AJM Posted: August 08, 2011 at 11:23 PM (#3895739)

Down one in the first and I already feel like they can't come back. I was always on the pessimistic side, but the last week has killed any confidence I had left.

4. AJM Posted: August 08, 2011 at 11:24 PM (#3895741)

Ok Angel! We're going to win now!

5. AJM Posted: August 08, 2011 at 11:42 PM (#3895768)

Bay with his 200th career homer!

He's hitting (before that homer) .288/.359/.442 since June 15th.

6. AJM Posted: August 08, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3895777)

Gary mentioned that Murphy told Collins last week that he wanted to work more at second and learn the position better so he can play there next year.

Hopefully he still feels that way. Unlike Keith, I don't think Murphy should be playing the OF.

7. AJM Posted: August 08, 2011 at 11:58 PM (#3895779)

David!

8. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3895793)

Zack Wheeler for St. Lucie yesterday:

6 4 0 0 0 7

Nice. Maybe that return to his old mechanics is working. Or maybe he just had a really nice start. Either way, nice.

9. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:26 AM (#3895794)

That is nice. No runs and 7 Ks is good, but I'm really happy about the no walks.

10. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3895803)

Despite what I said in posts 2 and 3, this season has been encouraging for the young guys. Thole, Murphy, Turner, Duda, Ike (before he got hurt), Niese, Gee have been solid or better in the majors. Plus the promising minor leaguers.

11. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:37 AM (#3895813)

I just got here in time for that Harris play. God, I hate him.

12. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:38 AM (#3895814)

Pelfrey, on the other hand, sucks. Can they trade him for something?

13. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:40 AM (#3895817)

Those were some hard-hit balls. I actually thought Pagan was going to get there.

Boy, I hate to judge, but I didn't like that slide he made, he needed to lay out, not go in halfway.

14. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:41 AM (#3895820)

I can't really agree about Thole. I think he's proved a hell of a lot more about his ceiling and limits than he has about any real ability he has. His combination of a so-so bat and defensive weakness really just don't bode well for his future.

As for the rest, whom do you really see as a major piece of the Mets' future -- someone who would (say) be one of the five best hitters on a contender, or one of the best three starters on a team whose pitching was a key to its success?

I'd say Ike. Otherwise, they've done a good job of finding potential complementary pieces, which is nice. But it's not the tough part of the job.

15. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:48 AM (#3895831)

Well, I just tuned in. Mets are up 4-1 and that abortion of an inning happens.

16. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:53 AM (#3895838)

Well, I just tuned in. Mets are up 4-1 and that abortion of an inning happens.

Cause, say hi to effect.

Ruben Tejada just hit the ball as hard as he can. It went 40 feet.

17. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 12:56 AM (#3895846)

Thole has a OBP heavy 91 OPS+, as a catcher it's hard to complain about that (though I also am concerned about his D). If they have Wright, Reyes, and Ike, filling the rest of the lineup with average or better hitters will make for a good offense. Getting #3 starters can cost a lot of money, producing two from the system is an advantage.

I don't think any of those guys will be stars (except Ike), and wasn't trying to say they were. If they were having bad seasons a)this season would be a lot worse and b) they'd still be looking for those potential complementary pieces.

18. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#3895859)

Hate his bat. Love his glove. Ruben!

19. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:05 AM (#3895860)

Nice play, Ruben!

20. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:17 AM (#3895893)

Tsk. Missed the Tejada play driving some pugs around.

I'll echo AJM, given the general usefulness of catcher's bats. I think you're a little spoiled, Sam.

21. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:21 AM (#3895907)

given the general usefulness of catcher's bats. I think you're a little spoiled, Sam.

I'll be blunt: if Thole could catch, his bat would be fine. As I said, his offense is so-so, and for a catcher, that's fine. But Thole's defense is just plain bad. As in "unacceptable." He's the catching version of Mike Pelfrey: the Mets called him up too soon, before his development was complete because he was needed at the major league level (arguably, anyway). He didn't have time to learn his trade. Mike Pelfrey will never get back the opportunity to learn the way he should have learned in AAA the secondary pitches he now needs, and will never develop. Thole will very likely never be the defensive catcher he might have been, but we'll see. Right now, the overall player is just not good enough.

22. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:26 AM (#3895923)

blah

23. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:27 AM (#3895926)

I still find the idea that players can't learn at the major-league level to be rather counter-intuitive.

24. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:30 AM (#3895934)

############

25. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:35 AM (#3895938)

I still find the idea that players can't learn at the major-league level to be rather counter-intuitive.

It depends. There's no way (for example) that, in the major leagues, Mike Pelfrey can do intensive work on learning a secondary pitch that he will thrown even if he's getting hammered, which he could obviously have done at Binghmaton or Buffalo (or I guess it was Norfolk at the time). Keith Hernandez has always been convinced that Pelfrey was rushed, and I agree, and it has hurt his ultimate destiny as a major leaguer. Or maybe he wasn't going to ever really develop that secondary pitch, but the Mets made sure he wasn't.

That's why I said about Thole "we'll see." I think it's more possible he might pick up the defensive lessons he needs to learn at the major league level than that Pelfrey will ever really become the pitcher he had the physical talent to be. But the responsibility he has to play the games take time away from pure instruction, working with coaches and learning. In the minors, it's ALL about developing. In the majors, it just can't be. The less time he can spend growing, because his job is to just play and try and (prepare to) win that day, the less good he's going to get.

26. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:39 AM (#3895952)

I honestly don't remember what they did with Pelf at this point as well as you, so I can conceivably take your word for that. Honestly, I don't think any more time in the minor leagues would have turned him into less of a headcase, but who knows?

I wonder if Thole is on schedule for winter ball.

27. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:40 AM (#3895955)

Come on, CupacoffeeKid!

28. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:41 AM (#3895957)

That was a Todd Hundley moment out there in LF . . . . Wow, what a terrible play. I'll take it.

29. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:41 AM (#3895958)

Yay guy I never heard of!

30. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:41 AM (#3895959)

HA!

Hilarious.

Shouldn't have been a hit, but there you go.

One more hit, Paulino, we need at least one more.

31. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:42 AM (#3895962)

Boy, that top of the 8th Beato/Iggy meltdown is just killer now, huh?

32. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:42 AM (#3895964)

Come on, Tejada, make the chatterers eat crow!

33. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:42 AM (#3895965)

C'mon, Ruben. Shut me the #### up.

34. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:43 AM (#3895967)

#### - I jinxed it by asking for just one more.

35. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:43 AM (#3895969)

Kid just can't hit. I wish he could, but . . . . just can't hit.

36. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:48 AM (#3895976)

DON'T BREAK YOUR BACK AGAIN, DAVID. Not on some damn foul ball, especially. Geez.

37. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:49 AM (#3895977)

David! Come on, just two runs.

38. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:58 AM (#3895989)

This is getting interesting.

39. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 01:58 AM (#3895990)

Nice hitting, Turner.

Let's go D-Wright!

40. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:00 AM (#3895993)

Do it, Lucas.

41. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:00 AM (#3895994)

Yes!

Come on Duda!

42. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:00 AM (#3895996)

That was kind of a huge wild pitch. Really huge . . . . I hope.

43. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:02 AM (#3895999)

How do you ####### like THAT???? Excellent!!!!!

44. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:02 AM (#3896000)

LUCAS DUDA! WOOOOOOO

45. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:02 AM (#3896001)

HA HA!

Unreal!

I was specifically not commenting during the rally so I wouldn't jinx it.

46. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:03 AM (#3896003)

What a rally that was. No give up, baby. No Ike. No Beltran. No Reyes. No Murphy.

Gotta love this bunch.

47. Lassus Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:04 AM (#3896004)

Fun. That is why you watch baseball.

48. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:07 AM (#3896006)

Turner and Duda with a nice job to compliment the victory!

49. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:34 AM (#3896023)

David Wright since his return:

.368/.377/.619/.996 (15 games, 5 2B, 3 HR, 18 RBI)

He's raised his overall season stats from this, when he went on the DL:

.226/.337/.404/.741

to this:

.271/.355/.458/.813

Welcome back.

50. Banta Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:43 AM (#3896027)

Damn it, I wish I hadn't missed this one!!

And sorry, Sam, I should have been here to back you up on Thole.

51. Banta Posted: August 09, 2011 at 02:48 AM (#3896032)

Thole's arm scares me as much as anything. He's in Piazza territory with that alone, so even if the rest of his game improves, that's still not good enough because a Piazza-arm on a non-Piazza hitter would NOT be a major league catcher. And watching how hard Mike had to work and his arm NEVER improved... I'm not optimistic on Thole.

52. Sam M. Posted: August 09, 2011 at 03:04 AM (#3896044)

That's OK, Banta. And if it was just the arm, and his catching skills were otherwise exemplary, I could live with it. But the combination of not being able to throw and poor technique blocking pitches and framing them and calling the games . . . he just needs so much all-around improvement, IMHO. Maybe he can be coached up, of course, but it's going to take a lot of time and hard work on his part. We'll see.

53. AJM Posted: August 09, 2011 at 03:06 AM (#3896045)

Thole is 30% throwing out runners for his career. Which is about average.

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Monday, August 08, 2011

Padres (51-64) @ Mets (56-57), Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:10pm

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