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Sunday, September 11, 2011

RedSox (85-60) @ Rays (80-64), Sunday, September 11, 2011, 1:40pm

BOS: Jon Lester (27, LHP, 15-6, 2.93)
TBR: James Shields (29, RHP, 14-10, 2.77)

The Primer Chimp Posted: September 11, 2011 at 01:00 PM | 106 comment(s)
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   1. Textbook Editor Posted: September 11, 2011 at 05:34 PM (#3921808)
I'm going to be an optimist: if the Red Sox win today and split this week with the Rays at Fenway, I think the danger may have passed. Heck, if they lose today and split at Fenway the danger may have passed. At least the key 4 games are at home. [/grasping at straws]
   2. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 05:45 PM (#3921815)
Gonzalez looked like Carl Crawford there. Just awful.
   3. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 05:50 PM (#3921819)
Great ####### job, Scutaro.
   4. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: September 11, 2011 at 05:54 PM (#3921821)
Not good.
   5. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 05:56 PM (#3921825)
Down 2-0 with no outs in the first against Shields at home? Might as well just shut it off now.
   6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#3921829)
I don't know why I'm upset, the season is over. No chance. They're done.
   7. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:04 PM (#3921830)
Lester's pitching like he think's he's Daisuke Matsuzaka here. This is painful to watch.
   8. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:05 PM (#3921831)
And not turning 2 on the Damon grounder costs them at least a run.
   9. RJ in TO Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:07 PM (#3921834)
Granted, I'm not an expert on these things, and I can be a bit fuzzy on the rules, but aren't there at least another 8 innings in this game?

This seems a bit early to begin the rending of garments, the beating of brows, and the gnashing of teeth.
   10. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:11 PM (#3921840)
Granted, I'm not an expert on these things, and I can be a bit fuzzy on the rules, but aren't there at least another 8 innings in this game?

This seems a bit early to begin the rending of garments, the beating of brows, and the gnashing of teeth.


Shields has a 2.47 ERA at home, and the Red Sox are down 3-0 in the first. What do you think the chances are that the Red Sox win this game? The Red Sox bullpen is a complete mess, and Lester will be lucky to go 5 innings with how he is pitching.
   11. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:17 PM (#3921844)
I don't know why I'm upset, the season is over. No chance. They're done.


Because you probably thought there was a fair chance Lester wouldn't #### diamonds in the first gd inning. *I* know Lester generally isn't a 'The line must be drawn here!' kind of guy, but I certainly didn't think he'd do a Tim Wakefield impression.
   12. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:30 PM (#3921854)
The only reasons for the Sox not to start booking golf outings in October are:
1. Seven games left with the Orioles.
2. The Yankees and Rays play each other six more times. The Yankees could be playing the B-squad full time in some of those...but they're cold too right now so they may not have the cushion.
3. Beckett and Bedard are supposed to be back before long.
   13. Jim Wisinski Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:31 PM (#3921856)
It's hard to make any real judgement from one play but it seems almost like Crawford has lost a step defensively, that foul ball is something I'm used to seeing him either run down or come very close to getting; maybe he was shaded to the right but his closing speed didn't seem quite as good.
   14. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:33 PM (#3921861)
It's hard to make any real judgement from one play but it seems almost like Crawford has lost a step defensively, that foul ball is something I'm used to seeing him either run down or come very close to getting; maybe he was shaded to the right but his closing speed didn't seem quite as good.


We wish he had lost a step defensively. Try something more like 5 steps. His defense has been average at best, worse if you account for his lollipop throwing arm that he tries to compensate for by arcing throws over the cutoff man.
   15. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:35 PM (#3921863)
It's really hard to overstate just how disappointing Crawford's play has been in all facets of the game.
   16. Jim Wisinski Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:35 PM (#3921865)
2. The Yankees and Rays play each other six more times. The Yankees could be playing the B-squad full time in some of those...but they're cold too right now so they may not have the cushion.


Other than needing to win nearly all the games against the Red Sox this is the biggest problem for the Rays right now. If they play well enough to be threatening for a playoff spot then unless the Yankees go on a nice win streak soon then they're also going to be playing well enough to be a theoretical threat to the Yankees. The final series it's likely the Yankees will be coasting but the first four games I expect them to be playing hard (and it's in New York).
   17. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:37 PM (#3921866)
Crawford seems like he's been playing a cloud all year. Every single aspect of his game has gone from good/very good to lousy, from hitting to fielding to his mental game. It's Alomar-esque.
   18. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:41 PM (#3921868)
This was a good game for Lester to #### the bed.
   19. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:43 PM (#3921869)
Well, if they're gonna get to Shields, now's their chance.
   20. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:46 PM (#3921870)
The Crawford contract might actually be worse than Jayson Werth's Nationals contract in the end.
   21. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:47 PM (#3921871)
The only reasons for the Sox not to start booking golf outings in October are:
1. Seven games left with the Orioles.
2. The Yankees and Rays play each other six more times. The Yankees could be playing the B-squad full time in some of those...but they're cold too right now so they may not have the cushion.
3. Beckett and Bedard are supposed to be back before long.


1. In which they still field Wake, Lackey, Miller and Weiland. Sox can't even get out 8 and 9 hitters now.

3. I'll believe it when I see it, and it's not like Bedard is Pedro Martinez to begin with.
   22. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:51 PM (#3921873)
What has also gone unmentioned is that 'one of the best line-ups in baseball and even with replacement level pitching should win a few games by clubbing teams around' is fielding Scutaro, Aviles, Varitek, and Crawford. And if a leftie even stands up to scratch his nuts, Tito will take Redddick out.
   23. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:51 PM (#3921874)
Bedard has a 120 ERA+ over his career. No, he's not Pedro Martinez, but that's not really a useful point of comparison. Jon Lester isn't Pedro Martinez. Josh Beckett isn't Pedro Martinez. James Shields isn't Pedro Martinez. CC Sabathia isn't Pedro Martinez. What the hell does that illustrate?
   24. Jim Wisinski Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:52 PM (#3921875)
Probably at least once every two games Shields hits a random spot where he completely loses control and walks a batter on four or five pitches. It's something that has occured his whole career with consistency.
   25. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:52 PM (#3921876)
Crawford playing every day and batting 6th is just killing the lineup. Especially against lefties.
   26. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:53 PM (#3921877)
####### seriously Ortiz?
   27. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:56 PM (#3921878)
Couldn't even get a single ####### run in with the bases loaded and 1 out. ####### pathetic.
   28. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 06:59 PM (#3921880)
And now the Rays are going to break this game open.
   29. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:01 PM (#3921882)
the hell does that illustrate?


Seriously?
   30. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:03 PM (#3921884)
Jon Lester go #### yourself.
   31. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:04 PM (#3921885)
Seriously?


Erik Bedard clearly can't help this team because he isn't a historically great pitcher. That's basically what you said.
   32. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:05 PM (#3921887)
What has also gone unmentioned is that 'one of the best line-ups in baseball and even with replacement level pitching should win a few games by clubbing teams around' is fielding Scutaro, Aviles, Varitek, and Crawford.


This team has been top heavy all year. If Pedroia/Gonzalez/Youk/Ortiz aren't raking they can't score.
   33. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:05 PM (#3921888)
I'll bet that Crawford gets MVP votes in 2012. He'll start hitting right away and not stop all year.
   34. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:06 PM (#3921889)
Bedard has a 120 ERA+ over his career. No, he's not Pedro Martinez


He only has to be better than Miller, Wakefield, or Weiland to be useful. But he's really fragile and hasn't been able to go especially deep into games. As such, he's not really a savior.
   35. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:10 PM (#3921890)
Bedard and Beckett will help but today is yet another example of what I was raging about last night. This team does not pick each other up. I'm not saying it's a matter of "guts" or "desire" or any of that crap, it's just that for whatever reason they have an amazing ability to find that player that bends them over and ##### them each night.

Basically the 2011 Boston Red Sox are bullies. If they get on you early and start pounding away you have no chance. But if you smack 'em in the mouth, they can't pick themselves up. Last night was a perfect example. Great comeback in the ninth but once Ortiz hit into the DP they were done. 0 for 7 from there on out against the ass end of the Tampa bullpen and then crappy defense toasted them. Give them a chance to #### it up and they will.
   36. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:12 PM (#3921892)
#35 does seem accurate. Some teams find a way to win even on bad days, this team instead finds a way to lose even when things are going well. The team hasn't had many games all year where they came back and won a game that looked out of reach, but they've choked away at least 10 games that they were easily in a position to win.
   37. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:13 PM (#3921894)
Put another way:

I haven't seen a team as loaded with talent as this one perform so poorly since the 2002 squad.
   38. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:14 PM (#3921895)
I think I may have to take a break from Chatter until they win a game. There's too much anger and depression in here these days.
   39. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:16 PM (#3921897)
The 11 shutouts is the most by a Red Sox team since the 1992 squad.

I've said it before, this is the anti-2007 team. That team just had #### go right all year, someone would #### up, someone else would get the job done. Pedroia starts the year hitting .140, Alex Cora has the month of his life, Josh Beckett goes on the DL, Kason Gabbard throws a shutout.

The funny thing about this is for some stupid reason I think if they can make the playoffs (which I don't think they will) I think they can be great when they get there. Get to October and the top heavy nature of this team swings from a weakness to a strength in my opinion.
   40. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:19 PM (#3921899)
Get to October and the top heavy nature of this team swings from a weakness to a strength in my opinion.


That's probably true. Whether the hitters are hot or not will ultimately determine their fate if they do get there though. When 1-5 are hitting, this team wins. When they aren't, they lose.
   41. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:22 PM (#3921900)

The funny thing about this is for some stupid reason I think if they can make the playoffs (which I don't think they will) I think they can be great when they get there. Get to October and the top heavy nature of this team swings from a weakness to a strength in my opinion.


That is a good point. And they are talented enough to go on a hot streak, though the poor pitching makes that difficult.

The worrying thing going forward is that they're wasting great seasons by Beckett, Papelbon, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz, and Reddick. I wouldn't be surprised if none of them ever had as good a year as they're having 2011 again.
   42. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:25 PM (#3921902)
Another potential DP not turned.
   43. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:27 PM (#3921903)
5-4-3 is tough.
   44. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:29 PM (#3921905)
I should have posted it before the game but I was trying to be positive: Lester had gotten his ERA down below 3.00--that's when he has his blowup games. He cannot tolerate his ERA getting too low.

Of course, he's done worse than pitch badly today. He's pitched badlly AND he's thrown way too many pitches early, meaning they will have to go to their middle relief by the 5th. Really terrible showing today by the one guy in the rotation we should be able to depend on. (Of course, I don't expect him to be perfect.)

Then again, the offense really sucks right now. Pedroia in particular looks like he has no chance up there.


Any talk of this team not being able to come back reflects a rather short memory, I'd say.
   45. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:30 PM (#3921906)
How many other things can you ######## find to #### up today?
   46. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:30 PM (#3921907)
Holy ####, how do you get picked off?
   47. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:31 PM (#3921909)
Hilaripus. It's like they're constantly daring us to think it can't get worse.
   48. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3921911)
If the Sox miss the playoffs this year, does Theo or Tito or both get fired?
   49. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3921912)
How many other things can you ######## find to #### up today?


You talking about #43? Sorry about that.
   50. Swedish Chef Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3921913)
If the Red Sox come back here, do they send out Lester to get the win? Or is that too old school?
   51. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3921914)
Pedroia cannot pull the trigger on pitches over the plate.
   52. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3921915)
By a great pickoff move?

Aviles wasn't even taking a big lead, Shields just perfectly timed a great move with Aviles' hop to take his average lead.

Sometimes, you tip your cap ...
   53. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3921916)
Pedroia down 0-2? Shocking.
   54. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#3921918)
If the Sox miss the playoffs this year, does Theo or Tito or both get fired?


Neither. We can argue if one of those things should happen, but nothing will happen.
   55. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#3921919)
By a great pickoff move?

Aviles wasn't even taking a big lead, Shields just perfectly timed a great move with Aviles' hop to take his average lead.

Sometimes, you tip your cap ...


You're right. I'm sure that if someone on your team did this down by 3, you'd say, "Oh golly what a good move. Kudos to you, sir."
   56. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#3921920)
Even when Pedroia hits a ball well, it's an out.
   57. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#3921921)
If the Sox miss the playoffs this year, does Theo or Tito or both get fired?


Not a chance, not after '04 and '07. But it's interesting to think about in the event of a second straight deeply disappointing season. A third season like that would definitely get people talking.
   58. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#3921923)

Neither. We can argue if one of those things should happen, but nothing will happen.


Okay, let's. I say, from the outside, there's a good argument for firing Theo if they miss the playoffs.
   59. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:37 PM (#3921924)
Not a chance, not after '04 and '07.


When do those wear off?
   60. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:38 PM (#3921925)
Darren - as a Jays fan let me tell you. They wear off sooner than people think.
   61. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:41 PM (#3921926)
The injuries are kind of out of Theo's control.

The Crawford deal is looking horrible, but Adrian Gonzalez has made up for it. It looks like catcher was a serious problem, but that's turned out decently for them. The Bedard deal hasn't worked out yet, but it may yet do so.

There's a case for not having Youkilis play 3B for durability reasons, but that means either passing on Adrian Gonzalez or trading Youkilis away at a discount.
   62. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:42 PM (#3921928)
You're right. I'm sure that if someone on your team did this down by 3, you'd say, "Oh golly what a good move. Kudos to you, sir."


Actually, I'd say something along the lines of \"####! But that *was* a great ####### move."

Sometimes you lose, sometimes you get beat.

I try to differentiate between the two.

BTW, that's Shields' 12th pickoff this year, for a RHP, he's got a GREAT pickoff move.

That play really wasn't on Aviles ...
   63. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:42 PM (#3921929)
You're right. I'm sure that if someone on your team did this down by 3, you'd say, "Oh golly what a good move. Kudos to you, sir."


Note also: Aviles got picked off to end a loss to Toronto a few days ago.
   64. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:43 PM (#3921930)
He wasn't picked off, he was thrown out stealilng (by a lot, but still)
   65. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:43 PM (#3921931)
To me, they go down in Red Sox history and nothing can take that away. The bulletproof job security doesn't last through two seasons like 10 and the theoretical 11.

Can anyone on the Steelers catch a ball? Ray Rice is great for me and all, but Roethleeefhsifburger is undoing all that goodness.
   66. Dr. Vaux Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:43 PM (#3921932)
Darren - as a Jays fan let me tell you. They wear off sooner than people think.


I don't think it's '04 and '07 so much as a matter of there not being anyone better to replace them. Who would be a better GM for the Red Sox than Theo Epstein? I certainly can't think of anybody.

What they need is a new training staff. They're the anti-White Sox as far as keeping pitchers healthy and/or pitching the way they did before they came to the Red Sox. It's been incredible.
   67. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:46 PM (#3921933)
I feel like of the two this is more on Theo than Tito but ultimately it's the guys on the field that are pissing me off. There are moves Tito could have made, there are things Theo could have done but ultimately they are playing like #### and I have a hard time seeing how that is either Theo or Tito's doing. Jon Lester knew what his job was today (and two starts ago against the Yankees) and he spit the bit.

Tito should have gone to Papelbon Wednesday night but it was Bard's fault for loading the bases with no outs.

Dustin Pedroia is 3 for his last 34, that's unacceptable.

#### happens, I get that but the players are the ones that I'm pissed at. This is a veteran team with in my opinion the most talent of any AL team and they are failing miserably. You gotta get the job done.
   68. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:47 PM (#3921934)
When do those wear off?


Well, a collapse like this is a second straight "bad" year by the standard of expectations. The case could be made that a third such year is probably where the calls start to get noticed.
   69. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:47 PM (#3921935)
It was a great move and he has a great move. But Aviles has to know that. He has to know that he simply cannot get picked off with the top of the lineup coming up. There's every reason to be upset with the stupidity of that play.
   70. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:49 PM (#3921936)
It was a great move and he has a great move. But Aviles has to know that. He has to know that he simply cannot get picked off with the top of the lineup coming up. There's every reason to be upset with the stupidity of that play.


This is exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, Shields has a great move, but Aviles should adjust how he's leading off to compensate for that, especially with no outs and the top of the order coming up behind him. He turned a potential big inning into nothing by trying to get an extra step or two when he wasn't even stealing.
   71. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:52 PM (#3921937)
firing Theo if they miss the playoffs.


Theo? as far as I can tell...IE:my hair-brained tin-foil hat theories...Theo has done everything instructed of him by Henry.

2009: Get me the best pitcher available. No more of this 'bridge talk'. we have the money, let's spend it.

2010: Get me the best OF available. Money is no object.

Back in the times of yore..3 weeks ago...I was praising Theo because our no. 7 and 8 SP's were winning games. Seems to me that a lot of this season is on Tito for little things, his usual long hooks, thinking a DMac is better against lefties than Reddick is (which may be true, but I have a hard time believing it) not finding innings for his best reliever....etc..etc..and finally:

If the team is lacking in 'guts', 'desire' and all that non-qualitative stuff we laugh at, then whose job is it to find that?
   72. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:52 PM (#3921938)
In other words, while I think they have earned a free pass, that's getting spent up right now. There's no excuse good enough for a third consecutive failure to make the postseason given the core of talent and resources that this franchise currently enjoys. Once could be a fluke, twice could be an unfortunate coincidence, three times suggest an approach that's simply not working.
   73. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:53 PM (#3921939)
Varitek is absolutely worthless as a defensive catcher. They can't start him behind the plate if they make the playoffs, not even as Beckett's binky.
   74. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:54 PM (#3921940)
In other words, while I think they have earned a free pass, that's getting spent up right now. There's no excuse good enough for a third consecutive failure to make the postseason given the core of talent and resources that this franchise currently enjoys. Once could be a fluke, twice could be an unfortunate coincidence, three times suggest an approach that's simply not working.


Does getting swept out of the first round in 2009 not also count as a failure? If it does, you have 3 consecutive failures already in the situation where they cough up the playoff spot this season.
   75. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#3921941)
AG, I think you meant third consecutive year to fail to win a playoff game.

Flipping incredible to me that the last time the Sox won a playoff game was in October, 2008.
   76. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:56 PM (#3921942)
It was a great move and he has a great move. But Aviles has to know that. He has to know that he simply cannot get picked off with the top of the lineup coming up. There's every reason to be upset with the stupidity of that play.


I guess I don't know what was so stupid about that play. Honestly. Did he take his lead "perfectly"? No. He shouldn't have made his last step a hop. That was a mistake. Obviously. But, frankly, it's a pretty thin mistake. He wasn't trying to stretch his lead beyond a reasonable point, he wasn't not paying attention, he was just moving into an average lead with a little bit of movement.

He made the slight mistake of adding a bit of flair into taking a reasonable, non-aggressive lead and Shields made a great play to catch him out on it.

Aviles' made a mistake, but it was a slight one, and, at least for me, overshadowed by the quality of play that Shields' had to make to take advantage of it ...
   77. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 07:59 PM (#3921944)
Now...I know that no manager in the world would bring in his closer here (and Im sure he is available despite two innings last night) but the illogic of letting your best reliever sit for an inning that will probably never arrive while Albers takes the mound,...it will never fail to annoy me. Sorry I ##### about that so much.
   78. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:00 PM (#3921945)
I posted #77 before the GS by the way.
   79. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:00 PM (#3921946)
Done.

This team can go #### themselves. Jon Lester, nice ####### job today you piece of ####. Way to come through.
   80. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:02 PM (#3921947)
Now...I know that no manager in the world would bring in his closer here (and Im sure he is available despite two innings last night) but the illogic of letting your best reliever sit for an inning that will probably never arrive while Albers takes the mound,...it will never fail to annoy me. Sorry I ##### about that so much.


I'm with you. The save rule costs teams all over baseball games every day. It's really mind boggling that teams can't figure that out.
   81. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:02 PM (#3921948)
This is exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, Shields has a great move, but Aviles should adjust how he's leading off to compensate for that, especially with no outs and the top of the order coming up behind him. He turned a potential big inning into nothing by trying to get an extra step or two when he wasn't even stealing.


As I wrote above, I guess I just didn't see the lead that Aviles' took as being anything other than appropriate for the situation. I didn't see it as being aggressive in the least. If a pitcher has a GREAT pitch, let's say a cutter, for example, and the batter guesses CUTTER ... and STILL gets beaten by the quality of the pitch, is it on the batter, or is it the greatness of the pitcher?

Was it the lead, or the move?

I don't know that there's a single answer ...
   82. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:03 PM (#3921949)
CoB - The issue is that Aviles can NOT get picked off there. That is 100% unacceptable. if that means he has to stand on the base until Shields starts his motion that's fine but he just cannot do that.
   83. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:03 PM (#3921950)
Does getting swept out of the first round in 2009 not also count as a failure? If it does, you have 3 consecutive failures already in the situation where they cough up the playoff spot this season.


The playoffs are enough of a crapshoot that I don't quite think of it that same way. It's not on the same plane as last year's disaster or this year's collapse would be assuming it comes to pass.
   84. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:05 PM (#3921952)
I'm sorry, CoB, but I cannot fathom how you don't understand that a player making a completely unnecessary risk for an impossibly small gain, in that situation, is the kind of thing that causes fans to curse him.
   85. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:06 PM (#3921953)
Yeah, you're looking at another 2007 Mets here. Much less doubt after today.
   86. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:08 PM (#3921957)
Jon Lester, nice ####### job today you piece of ####. Way to come through.


I shouldn't take Game Chatter talk seriously, but let's see you go out there and pitch. It's not like he's Hal ####### Chase and tanking g games.

These guys one two titles in the past decade and this negativity would be appropriate for a Cubs or Pirates fan. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I consider myself a fortunate sports fan this past decade.
   87. Dan Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:08 PM (#3921958)
This team is toast.
   88. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:09 PM (#3921959)
I shouldn't take Game Chatter talk seriously, but let's see you go out there and pitch. It's not like he's Hal ####### Chase and tanking g games.


You shouldn't take chatter talk seriously.
   89. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:11 PM (#3921963)
[84] And I guess I can't fathom your insistence on calling what Aviles' did as a "completely unnecessary risk for an impossibly small gain" when all I saw was someone establishing a completely ordinary and acceptable lead, given the situation.

Shrug, agree to disagree and that sort of thing ...
   90. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:11 PM (#3921964)
These guys one two titles in the past decade and this negativity would be appropriate for a Cubs or Pirates fan. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I consider myself a fortunate sports fan this past decade.


I too consider myself fortunate, incredibly so (and I'm not even a Patriot fan). That doesn't mean I'm still not rooting desperately for this team day in and day out, year in and year out. I love the Red Sox but this team right now is playing woefully below its ability. Last year was disappointing but I was proud of that team, given the injuries I thought they got the most out of what they had, I do not feel like that is true of this team.
   91. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:12 PM (#3921965)
I consider myself a fortunate sports fan this past decade.


(sigh) I wish I were a BB/NFL/Hockey fan. I can't even enjoy other Baseball games today with all this 9/11 stuff.
   92. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:14 PM (#3921968)
The Albers thing would be funny if it wasn't a repeat of Gagne. They seem hellbent on proving that they do not care at all about winning or losing.
   93. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:15 PM (#3921971)
You know, I actually feel bad for Matt Albers. This guy did above and beyond what could be expected for four months and really saved this team's bacon when Wheeler and Jenks went down and his season is going to be remembered for the way he has completely thrown up on himself the last two weeks.
   94. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:16 PM (#3921973)
I wonder if there will be another CG by a Tampa Bay pitcher today.
   95. Answer Guy Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:17 PM (#3921975)
You know, I actually feel bad for Matt Albers. This guy did above and beyond what could be expected for four months and really saved this team's bacon when Wheeler and Jenks went down and his season is going to be remembered for the way he has completely thrown up on himself the last two weeks.


I blame Tito. Albers sucking would be no big deal if he were moved to mopup duty after the KC debacle, which was far from the first incidence of him being awful in a critical juncture in a game.
   96. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:18 PM (#3921976)
Sorry about that. I guess I just look at sports differently. I sometimes feel like a bad fan because I don't take it as seriously as some of the rest of you.
   97. Darren Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:18 PM (#3921977)
Thank goodness there is no chance whatsoever that Boston blows this. That's what I find comforting.
   98. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:24 PM (#3921984)
Sorry about that. I guess I just look at sports differently. I sometimes feel like a bad fan because I don't take it as seriously as some of the rest of you.


No no, it was a valid point. like Dale I'm not a basketball fan or a football fan in any meaning and to the extent I care about the NFL I'm a Dolphins fan which eliminates any enjoyment there.

I saw the Sox win two World Series titles and that was wonderful. I'm popping in 2004 Game Four tomorrow night and I'll love every minute of it.
   99. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:36 PM (#3921997)
The Yankees are losing again in Anaheim - this is getting ridiculous. If NY and BOS lose, here are the standings:

NY 87-58
BOS 85-61
TB 81-64

TEX 83-64 (let's say TEX wins today, for argument's sake...)
LAA 81-65

DET 84-62

If Tampa can take care of business against NY, doesn't this whole playoff lineup start looking like a clusterf###? Boston talk radio fans have been speculating all summer about whether winning the division, but getting Verlander twice, is better than taking on Texas without homefield advantage. Besides being a bit presumptuous, who is to say what the order of seedings will be? Or who will win the AL West? Or the AL East? Or the wildcard?

BOS, this week, has 6 home games: Tor (2), TB (4)
NY has six road games: SEA (3), TOR (3)
TB has seven road games: BAL (3), BOS (4)
DET has seven road games: CHI (3), OAK (4)
ANA has six road games: BAL (3), OAK (3)
TEX has six games: 3 hosting CLE, 3 at SEA

Boston certainly seems to have the scheduling advantage. Tampa starts an 11-game road trip tomorrow.

Last thing: Doug Fister, a little-mentioned deadline pickup in late July for Detroit from Seattle, has been amazing, and could be a difference maker for the Tigers, if they win the whole thing. He pitched 7 shutout innings to get the win today. Since being traded to Detroit, his line:

8 GS, 5-1, 51.1 IP, 41 Ks, 5 BBs, ERA of 2.28. He had two clunkers in there, by the way. In his last five starts: 36.2 IP, 36 Ks, 4 BBs, ERA of - ready for this - 0.74. He's been every bit as good as Verlander since being traded, and he's a lefty. Pretty unreal. Imagine if the Red Sox or Yankees had acquired him for nothing much...
   100. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 11, 2011 at 08:37 PM (#3922000)
No, I'm not a good fan. I only watch about a couple of games a week and I'm not sure why Youkilis is out. I know a lot about baseball history, but I can't tell you how to build a team and my knowledge of the rulebook is spotty.
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