BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Blue Jays (37-35) @ RedSox (38-34), Monday, June 25, 2012, 7:10pm

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Monday, June 25, 2012

Blue Jays (37-35) @ RedSox (38-34), Monday, June 25, 2012, 7:10pm

TOR:Henderson Alvarez (22, RHP, 3-6, 4.30)
BOS:Felix Doubront (24, LHP, 8-3, 4.31)

The Primer Chimp Posted: June 25, 2012 at 10:00 AM | 136 comment(s)
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1. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4166011)

Ah, nuts. Was hoping ESPN or MLBN would have the other Sox' game.

I see Lind is back up - I forget; is he the one with the really unfortunate inability to grow facial hair?

2. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4166016)

No that's Snider.

3. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:15 PM (#4166021)

Nice start Felix.

4. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4166022)

Down 2-0 after 2 batters. Could be worse, right?

Oh.

5. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4166024)

Middlebrooks makes the error and some noticeable "Yooooouk"chants from the crowd.

6. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4166025)

Boy Middlebrooks is making me forget Youkilis already!

7. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:20 PM (#4166027)

What is. The casual fan/sports radio response to the deal? Is it "Youk was a cancer, good riddance" or is it "no, not Youk!"

8. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4166028)

This return to earth by Doubront is not well-timed.

9. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4166029)

I just don't see how keeping Youkilis as depth and a PH option and backup at 1B/3B/DH wasn't better than paying for him to play for another team. If Middlebrooks, Gonzalez, or Ortiz gets hurt, Cherington is going to look mighty stupid.

10. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4166030)

Way to show some confidence in the kid Bobby.

11. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4166031)

And knowing this team, one of them WILL get hurt, it's just a matter of when.

12. Chip Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4166032)

I thought the point of the pitching and fiielding part of thei inning was to record outs, but maybe I'm wrong.

13. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:23 PM (#4166035)

I just don't see how keeping Youkilis as depth and a PH option and backup at 1B/3B/DH wasn't better than paying for him to play for another team. If Middlebrooks, Gonzalez, or Ortiz gets hurt, Cherington is going to look mighty stupid.

That's interesting. I haven't quite figured out how to articulate it but you get me closer, how do the Sox win this deal? This really is a zero upside trade.

14. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4166037)

Even if Youkilis outhits Middlebrooks and everyone stays healthy it'll look bad. If the White Sox win the 2nd wild card spot, it'll look bad. The downside seems to massively outweigh any possible upside.

If you're going to give him away and send a check for basically everything owed to him, why wouldn't you make sure you send him to the NL?

15. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:28 PM (#4166040)

It really seems to be based on the idea that "unhappy Youk == problem", whether in terms of being less effective or being a pain in the clubhouse or going on the radio and souring the listeners on the team. I don't tend to give that much credence, but maybe Ben, Bobby & co. know something we don't.

...

The heck, Felix? You're the good one!

16. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:30 PM (#4166041)

If Youkilis couldn't be a piece of a winning team as a sometimes starter between those 3 positions, that's a poor reflection on Valentine's ability to manage his players. Period.

Joe Maddon or TLR or 2003-2007 era Francona would have no issues getting Youkilis and Middlebrooks and Gonzalez and Ortiz all into the lineup enough to make them all succeed and make the team win. It's a sign of a bad manager if he needs to get the GM to dump a useful player.

17. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4166042)

Obviously that should say 2004-2007. Fat fingers = fail.

18. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:32 PM (#4166043)

Didn't Francona basically demand Theo get rid of someone a couple years ago? An outfielder with a downright poisonous attitude (and, admittedly, not nearly Youk's upside), IIRC.

19. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:33 PM (#4166045)

More than a few years ago but Jay Payton was booted in similar fashion if I recall.

20. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4166049)

That's the Dustin Pedroia we love.

21. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4166051)

Papi could get a cheap RBI with a bunt here, if he were so inclined.

Or he could do that.

22. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4166052)

Day off helped Papi I suppose.

23. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:37 PM (#4166053)

Jay Payton is the type of player you unceremoniously dump. I don't think Kevin Youkilis is, even if he might be diminished.

Runs!

24. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:37 PM (#4166054)

So how are we all going to feel when Rizzo outproduces Gonzalez while making the major league minimum over the remainder of the season?

25. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4166055)

Does Alvarez do anything besides trying to throw his fastball past batters?

26. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4166056)

I don't think that will happen Dan.

Even if it does I think you have to make that trade. Prospects bust too often. Gonzalez wasn't a 33 year old on the decline, he was 29 and at his peak. You go get guys like that as often as possible.

27. Chip Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4166057)

"Youks, obviously with Middllebrooks playing well ever since the beginning of the year (first at Pawtucket, with no falloff when you got hurt and we had to call him up to the majors) there's little to no chance we're picking up your option for next year. We've also decided to limit your ABs and therefore your free agent value by using you as a bench player. You know, just like we ###### with your potential compensation at the beginning of your career by burying you behind the corpse of Kevin Millar (remember all those statheads at BTF screaming "Free Youks!" back in '05?). You'll be OK with that, right?"

28. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4166059)

Alternatively, you could say he was 29 and a year of minor decline past his peak, caused by a bum shoulder. Just playing Devil's Advocate.

29. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4166060)

I like Saltalamacchia a lot, but having him hitting in front of Gonzalez is an acknowledgment that something is wrong with the universe.

30. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4166062)

Glad to see that Gonzalez has gone back to rolling over the outside pitch to ground out to 2nd after the encouraging opposite field homer.

31. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4166063)

Wonder if he's pressing a bit. Wouldn't be surprised if he woke up this morning and thought "if I suck I'm really going to hear it."

32. Chip Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4166064)

Thinking Terry Francona would have automatically handled this situation properly is truly hilarious when you remember how he handled the Millar//Mueller/Youkilis rotation in '05. The one guy who should have been playing the most is the one who was buried.

33. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:48 PM (#4166066)

Lillibridge is one goofy ass ugly ############.

34. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4166068)

Am I being overly critical or did Middlebrooks seem a bit casual in getting rid of that ball?

35. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4166069)

So that's 3 chances for Middlebrooks, and 0 cleanly handled. I'm feeling good about this.

36. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4166072)

Felix ain't got his "A" game today

37. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4166073)

Am I being overly critical or did Middlebrooks seem a bit casual in getting rid of that ball?

He played it far too casually for the speed of the runner.

38. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4166077)

Let's put up some more runs!

I hope the acquisition of Lillibridge means the end of Darnell McDonald on the roster after we get more healthy OFers back from the DL.

39. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 07:56 PM (#4166081)

Brett Lillibridge looks like Phil from Better Off Ted.

40. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4166083)

It's Brent, just an FYI.

41. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4166084)

I've got White Sox - Twins on my 2nd screen now. We'll see how Youk does. Gonna be weird as hell to see him in another uni.

42. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4166085)

This game's just going to find every way it can to annoy me, it seems.

43. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4166086)

Oops, thought it was Brett. Spelling Lillibridge has been a challenge all day.

44. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4166087)

Why even both sliding if you're out by the much. And he adds injury to insult, apparently.

45. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4166088)

Get your uniform dirty so your mom has to do the laundry?

46. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4166090)

Really should just pull Doubront. Even most of the outs have been well hit. He's not fooling anybody tonight.

47. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4166091)

Punto is not as speedy as one would think.

48. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4166092)

Youk at bat on MLBN

49. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4166093)

Youkilis up now in Minnesota.

50. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4166094)

Grounds out awkwardly to SS. Liriano looks pretty sharp, surprisingly.

51. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4166096)

Pedroia starting to swing the bat well.

Why is the BlueJay trainer taking so long to visit?

52. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4166098)

He was probabily in the clubhouse working on Encarnacion?

53. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4166100)

Prom dresses for poor girls seems like the stupidest charity ever. But maybe I just don't understand because I was never a teenage girl?

54. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4166101)

Prom dresses and make up for the underprivileged. I guess it's a nice cause but when Clay Buchholz' Barbie of a wife very perkily explains it it sounds like the sort of thing you'd see on a sitcom.

55. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4166103)

Dan, you and I are in sync today.

That was messed up.

56. Good cripple hitter Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4166104)

Why is the BlueJay trainer taking so long to visit?

He was having traumatic flashbacks to other Jays starters falling to injury.

(52): the Jays broadcast showed him in the dugout talking to Farrell when the injury happened. They were talking for a long time before he finally headed out to talk to Alvarez.

57. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4166105)

(Cue yakkety sax)

58. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4166106)

That was a weird ass play.

59. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4166107)

Especially considering Pedroia was out.

60. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4166108)

Free run!

61. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4166109)

Well that works.

62. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4166110)

Zoinks

63. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4166111)

Kelly Johnson is not having a good inning.

64. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4166113)

Johnson probably should have made the play but that was a rocket.

65. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4166114)

What the everliving ####?

66. Chip Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4166116)

Kelly Johnson is not distinguishing himself.

67. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4166117)

Alright Middlebrooks, time to atone for your #### defense earlier.

68. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4166118)

Shifting on WMB? That seems bizarre

69. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4166119)

Seems like he popped up an awfully hittable pitch there.

70. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4166123)

Nice recovery by Gonzo there.

71. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4166126)

That's the weird thing with Middlebrooks, he doesn't flail about at the plate, he just misses a lot of pitches.

One nice aspect of the Youk deal is it returns Gonzo to 1st full time.

72. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4166127)

Wow. I didn't think he had a chance on Lawrie there.

73. Chip Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4166132)

Don Orsillo, "brats" does not rhyme with "rats."

74. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4166135)

Kalish! Woo!

75. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4166136)

Now steal second!

76. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4166137)

Alvarez is very concerned that Kalish will listen to me.

77. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4166138)

Brett Lillibridge looks like Phil from Better Off Ted.

That show deserved a better fate than it got. I blame the stupid title.

78. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4166139)

Are you ####### shitting me, Punto?

79. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4166140)

I don't think I've ever seen this much time wasted on a runner at first in the 4th inning. Not even by Buchholz.

80. Phil Coorey. Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4166143)

Are you ####### shitting me, Punto?

And Remy justified it...

Better off Ted was great - concur

81. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4166144)

Brett Lillibridge looks like Phil from Better Off Ted.

That show deserved a better fate than it got. I blame the stupid title.

Amen brother.

82. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4166145)

Hey Phil.

83. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4166146)

I don't think I know what Better Off Ted was. Probably never watched it because of the dumb title.

84. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4166147)

"I'm so happy I made a sign."

My kinda kid

85. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4166148)

Workplace comedy, sheer genius.

86. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4166149)

n+1-ing the love for Better off Ted.

I'm kind of saving the unaired episodes on Amazon Prime for a rainy day.

87. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4166152)

Doubront really went after Bautista there.

88. Phil Coorey. Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4166153)

Hey Phil.

Jose, hope you are well.

Workplace comedy, sheer genius.

This times by a thousand - that and Party Down are two of my favourite recent comedies that only lasted a few seasons.

89. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4166156)

If Ortiz can get to 500 homers, will that punch his HOF ticket (in addition to the postseason heroics and clutch reputation)?

90. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4166157)

The way he's going tonight I don't think Kelly Johnson should be doing the glove flip to first base.

91. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4166158)

I think it will Dan.

92. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4166160)

Add another run to Lawrie's DRS!

93. Jay Seaver Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4166163)

After the first inning or two, Doubront only throwing 68 pitches through five seems impossible.

It is nice to have Adrian back at first full-time.

94. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4166164)

In all seriousness, with DRS's ###### up methodology, that routine grounder Lawrie just fielded gave him something like +.99 plays made above average, which means something like .6 runs, I believe?

95. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4166165)

So Mr. Inefficient has allowed five runs but only thrown 68 pitches in five innings.

96. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4166168)

Punto throws from the hole with the same technique as Jed Lowrie. It makes me pine for Jed :(

97. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4166171)

How did Francosco not get a triple on that?

98. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4166172)

Damn. Kalish almost ####### caught that.

99. Dan Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4166173)

If he had known he could go back another step before jumping at the wall, I think he could've made that play.

100. Chip Posted: June 25, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4166175)

Agreed Dan.

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