BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Boston Red Sox (73-53) @ Baltimore Orioles (60-65), Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 7:05pm

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101. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:42 AM (#2910909)

I don't think he's ever gotten comfortable with the new arm slot they pushed him to use after he got sent down.

It's not as if he had good control with his old arm slot.

102. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:44 AM (#2910915)

It's not as if he had good control with his old arm slot.

Oh sure. But the whole point of the change in the delivery was to improve his fastball command, and yet that appears to be even worse than it was before he got sent down.

103. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:47 AM (#2910919)

As far as I can tell, Bowden has about 138 innings between AA and AAA. He had ~142 IP last year. I doubt they'd let him go much past 175 IP, so he's a possibility, but probably not for long.

104. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:47 AM (#2910920)

I thought the point of the change was to make his fastball not dead straight.

105. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:48 AM (#2910921)

Lopez proving once again how unreliable he is, even as a LOOGY.

106. The Marksist Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:49 AM (#2910923)

twice apparently. Three counting that one.

107. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:51 AM (#2910928)

Jesus the bullpen is just a complete ####### useless turd, and has been, it seems, for more than a month.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Buchholz may have a bit of the ol' Derek Lowe "syndrome" going on as well, so it may be there's something other than arm slot issues going on here.

108. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:52 AM (#2910932)

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Buchholz may have a bit of the ol' Derek Lowe "syndrome" going on as well, so it may be there's something other than arm slot issues going on here.

Yes. His rise from nobody to no-hitter throwing superstar in such a short time contributed to this too, I think.

109. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:53 AM (#2910933)

I thought the point of the change was to make his fastball not dead straight.

This is from a Globe article back in June about his work at Pawtucket:

Although the Red Sox hope that by the time Clay Buchholz reemerges in Boston, he will throw his fastball for strikes more consistently, that doesn't mean he'll be throwing them from a consistent angle.
more stories like this

Buchholz, whose arm angle veered more toward three-quarters than over the top in college, has dropped down a bit to reestablish his fastball command, which seemed to desert him at times in the majors

110. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:57 AM (#2910940)

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Buchholz may have a bit of the ol' Derek Lowe "syndrome" going on as well, so it may be there's something other than arm slot issues going on here.

You mean with his off-the-field exploits:

Erica Ellyson is Clay Buchholz's Penthouse Pet?

111. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:58 AM (#2910946)

Nice game. Was Buchholz as totally pitiful as the box score suggests?

112. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 12:59 AM (#2910947)

Dan, I don't doubt that the no-hitter contributed to it as well. But Buchholz is turning into Lowe v.2004 (aside from the playoffs), that's a big problem, and makes me suspect this will be a flameout situation as opposed to a "potential ace" situation.

And I feel silly even asking this, but since I honestly have no idea about it... could someone explain the Buchholz/laptops thing? Because I've read numerous snide comments regarding this over the past couple of years, but never heard what the actual issue/situation was.

113. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:00 AM (#2910951)

I have no real hope that Buchholz will contribute this year, but hopefully he can come into ST next year and find his mechanics more consistently and work from there.

114. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:01 AM (#2910953)

Clay tried to pull off the same kind of theft that the kid does in The 400 Blows,

but updated for our decade!

115. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:04 AM (#2910958)

Re: #122. Good for him, bad for the Red Sox?

Well, at least we have an ace in Lester. I'm pretty close to writing off Buchholz. And next year we may get to see what Bowden can do. Oh well; they're not all going to pan out.

116. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:05 AM (#2910960)

Nice to see Bay hit another HR, although if it was still a 7 - 4 game it would have felt a lot better.

117. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:06 AM (#2910965)

Bay goes yard.

118. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:08 AM (#2910973)

It has been a long, long time since I saw The 400 Blows, so the reference is a bit lost for me. Wikipedia leads me to this from Edes:

Edes on Sox Prospects, from 2006

Clay Buchholz, a righthander from Angelina Junior College in Texas, was taken last summer with a first-round sandwich pick by the Sox, as other teams passed because Buchholz had been arrested for stealing 29 laptops from his high school and selling them. ''The easiest thing to do is to walk away from a situation like that," Cherington said. ''But Jason McLeod and Jimmy Robinson [the scout who signed him] worked really hard to find out if this was an issue that was endemic, a predictor of future behavior, or an isolated thing. There were still concerns at the end, we still had a decision to make, but so far he's been great. He's the first one on the field in the morning, works his butt off, and asks questions of everybody."

119. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:09 AM (#2910975)

This is the part that stands out to me:

There were still concerns at the end, we still had a decision to make, but so far he's been great.

120. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:11 AM (#2910979)

Maybe Buchholz will follow the Roy Halladay career path...stranger things have happened.

121. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:11 AM (#2910981)

He's very similar to how Halladay was before he remade himself into a groundball pitcher, right?

122. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:22 AM (#2911016)

Love when our supposed sinkerballer can't induce a groundball on 0-2.

123. Marcel Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:22 AM (#2911017)

As far as I can tell, Bowden has about 138 innings between AA and AAA. He had ~142 IP last year. I doubt they'd let him go much past 175 IP, so he's a possibility, but probably not for long.

I don't know that Bowden would be much of an improvement. According to KLaw, his fastball is below-average (both in velocity and his command of it) and he doesn't have the plus off-speed stuff to make up for that.

124. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:25 AM (#2911022)

In The 400 Blows, the kid hero steals a typewriter from his mother's office, and gets caught, IIRC.

Clay ripped off a laptop from his mother's office, no?

125. The Marksist Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:27 AM (#2911026)

According to KLaw, his fastball is below-average (both in velocity and his command of it) and he doesn't have the plus off-speed stuff to make up for that.

Most other sources are more complimentary. I agree Bowden isn't the solution, though.

126. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:28 AM (#2911028)

He may still be an good pitcher. Maddux and Glavine both got knocked around badly as rookies, for instance.

It happens. But maybe not this badly.

127. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:32 AM (#2911033)

Cash is pretty darned awful.

128. The Marksist Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:34 AM (#2911038)

I'm not ready to close the book on Clay. Plenty of pitchers don't succeed right away.

Also, re: KLaw. He saw Bowden on an off day. SSS, you know?

129. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:36 AM (#2911044)

I just saw it was 29 of them, and from his high school. What a moron.

130. plink Posted: August 21, 2008 at 01:41 AM (#2911046)

So, missed the beginning of the game - was there a reason for the seemingly early hook for Buchholz? He had done better than Waters at that point...

131. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:01 AM (#2911065)

So, missed the beginning of the game - was there a reason for the seemingly early hook for Buchholz? He had done better than Waters at that point...

No, actually, he hadn't. And that's a pretty low standard anyway.

132. Answer Guy Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:15 AM (#2911075)

I'm not ready to cut bait on Buchholz either. But it's nothing doing for him this season. I wish the bullpen had kept this one close since the Baltimore pen is highly suspect.

133. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:16 AM (#2911076)

Alex Cora loosening in the bullpen?! Maybe he has a use after all.

134. Answer Guy Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:16 AM (#2911077)

OK...C'mon K-Rod..close this one out. If he does at least we won't drop back even further.

135. Textbook Editor Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:17 AM (#2911078)

I suspect that they were not going to let Buchholz take a beating, to try to save his "confidence," and hence the early hook. Aardsma immediately giving up the HR did not help matters, nor Lopez giving up his own 3-run shot.

136. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:19 AM (#2911080)

I dunno, I still wouldn't mind seeing K-Rod fail.

137. Answer Guy Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:21 AM (#2911081)

There have been too many damn nights when our boys have lost and literally everyone else we're concerned about wins lately.

138. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:22 AM (#2911084)

Cash is a swing-and-miss machine.

139. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:24 AM (#2911086)

Per NESN, Mike Benjamin the last pure position player to pitch. Dave McCarty also did it, but he had actually converted in spring training to being a dual-role guy.

140. Answer Guy Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:24 AM (#2911087)

With semi-competent relief pitching this is still a ballgame. Grrr..

141. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:24 AM (#2911088)

Of course, if Pedroia gets a hit here, we won't be seeing Cora.

142. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:25 AM (#2911089)

That's twice in this game Pedroia has hacked at a pitch that almost hit him and popped it up.

143. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:27 AM (#2911091)

I kind of wanted to see Cora pitch.

144. Answer Guy Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:27 AM (#2911093)

OK, Angels hold on.

I figured it'd be at least 2 more years until we were trailing Tampa Bay by 4 1/2 games at any point in the season.

145. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:28 AM (#2911094)

Cash is exquisitely bad at hitting. He throws well, I guess.

146. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:29 AM (#2911096)

Good for the Angels and us.

Does anybody know if they showed Bolt run the 200 over on NBC yet? I kinda want to catch that.
What a speciman that guy is. Wow.

147. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:33 AM (#2911098)

What about Pauley, BTW? I'd say he has as good a chance to not fail badly as anybody besides
Masterson. Might catch lightnng on a bottle.

That was one hell of a catch by the Midge.

148. Dan Posted: August 21, 2008 at 02:37 AM (#2911101)

I'd rather see Bowden than Pauley. No contest.

149. Chip Posted: August 21, 2008 at 03:16 AM (#2911125)

Buchholz optioned to Portland.

150. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 03:30 AM (#2911130)

That's an upset!

151. tfbg9 Posted: August 21, 2008 at 03:54 AM (#2911148)

Clay after the news, talking about his head-caseness:

"I put too much pressure on myself," he said. "When I put one guy on base it feels like the bases are loaded. Instead of gritting my teeth and saying 'Let's get these guys out' I'm thinking 'Now what's going to happen.' I don't have a very high confidence level and something has to change."

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