BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: BTF GC Game of the Night: Red Sox at Yankees

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1. . . . . . . Posted: September 09, 2005 at 02:06 PM (#1607110)

I'm going to be there tonight.

Knock that fat POS all over the box, fellas.

And in the grand Yankee tradition of Eddie Lopat, kick some ass, Aaron.

2. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 09, 2005 at 02:44 PM (#1607186)

What the #### has happened to the Yankees offense? It's really disgusting.

3. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:02 PM (#1607222)

Where you sitting, Left Man-###?

4. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:06 PM (#1607229)

Besides their remaining ballgames against the World Champions, the Roidin' Torres have zero on the schedule facing squads with winning records. Let me be the first to welcome our New AL East Overlords! Same as our Old AL east Overlords! Hail Steroids! HAIL STEROIDS!!!

5. The Original SJ Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:18 PM (#1607248)

Don't the Sox and Yankee play nearly identical schedules over the course of the year?

6. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:30 PM (#1607272)

Yes. But the Sox have yet to get their OAK games out of the way, I guess.

HAIL PED'S!!! HAIL STEROIDS!!

7. Sean McNally Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:42 PM (#1607306)

No they don't SJ. It's one of the added awful features of interleague play.

Boston got: Atlanta (3 games), St. Louis (3 games), Chicago (3 games), Cincinnati (3 games), Pittsburgh (3 games) and Philadelphia (3 games).

New York got: New York (six games), Milwaukee (3 games), St. Louis (3 games), Pittsburgh (3 games) and Chicago (3 games).

The combined record of the Sox interleague opponents is 432-407 (.514%) and the Yanks opponents are just about equal at 353-347 (.504%).

I believe, without looking at the schedule there's some home and away and number of game foolishness that goes on with the intraleague, interdivisonal games.

8. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:48 PM (#1607321)

I'd like to say tonight is the night Aaron Small gets revealed for what he really is, but the Red Sox tend to struggle against pitchers they face for the first time...

9. Sean McNally Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:52 PM (#1607328)

I’d like to say tonight is the night Aaron Small gets revealed for what he really is, but the Red Sox tend to struggle against pitchers they face for the first time…

A former power hitting outfielder who's meteoric rise to fame was cut short by a mysterious woman dressed in black who shot him in a Chicago hotel??

Now, after years of wandering he has come back to the majors, this time as an unheralded pitcher. Too old to be a prospect, but yearning to have people walk by him on the street and say: "There goes the best to ever play this game."

10. bibigon Posted: September 09, 2005 at 03:56 PM (#1607340)

but the Red Sox tend to struggle against pitchers they face for the first time…

Does any team in baseball not seemingly have this issue?

From reading game threads and various message boards, after "Why does <team X> always kill us, but bend over for our division opponents", it seems to be that this might be the single most ubiquitous complaint that fans have about their team.

Which is all to say, I question whether there really is such an effect for the Red Sox.

11. nickm Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:02 PM (#1607361)

I'd like to say that anything other than a Yankees' sweep is great in my book. 2 of 3 seem to be a little too weak for Yanks, with 20 games remaining.

BTW, it would be extatic for the game to enter the last NYY/Sox series with Sox being 3 games up, and CLE/WEST clinching the WC: that will be an exact opposite of the last years ALCS, with Yanks being down to their last LOSS.

12. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:05 PM (#1607372)

You're making 2 different arguments, bibigon. The first one says that, say, Baltimore gives the Red Sox a lot of trouble, but team X handles Baltimore easily.

The second says that any team's rookie pitcher Y will usually have success against team Z his first time against them.

13. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:08 PM (#1607384)

Someone here posted a stat a while back about the ERA of pitchers facing the Sox for the first time. I think it was pretty low but I can't recall exactly

14. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:21 PM (#1607430)

It would seem that "patient" hitting teams like the Sox and Yanks might be more vulnerable to unseen starters than hackatastic teams like, say, the 'Rays and the Angels.

15. villageidiom Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:38 PM (#1607477)

The ST crowd is used to (fed up with?) my predictions at the start of each Sox series. I'll bring the Yankee GC crowd up to speed.

Way back on 6/14 I'd predicted the rest of the Sox season, series by series. It wasn't rocket science: splits against good teams, series wins against middle teams, series sweeps against bad teams. Give or take some for home/road, and that's it.

As of now they're right where they were predicted to be; if they continue meeting expectations, they'll enter the final series of the year with 92 wins. And end with 94. ;-)

A few days ago I also completed the same exercise with the Yankees, and also projected them to 92 wins entering the final series. (I'd also projected Cleveland to 93 wins by the end of the season.)

But in the Yankees projection I'd expected them to sweep Tampa in the series ending last night. Instead they went 1-2, two games under the projection. As a result, if they meet my expectations the rest of the way, they'd enter the final weekend with only 90 wins, and need to sweep the Sox in Boston to make the playoffs.

SM has it right in his intro: A sweep or 2-1 in this series keeps the Yankees in it. Anything less, and it's pretty much over.

OK, enough of that. My old prediction from 6/14 was that the Sox would win only 1 of 3 in this series. I'm sticking with it.

16. bibigon Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:46 PM (#1607494)

You’re making 2 different arguments, bibigon. The first one says that, say, Baltimore gives the Red Sox a lot of trouble, but team X handles Baltimore easily.

The second says that any team’s rookie pitcher Y will usually have success against team Z his first time against them.

Obviously I'm referencing two different arguments. That's the whole point.

I was saying that there are a few things that fans of every team complain about. After the one about "Baltimore gives the Sox a lot of trouble...", the one about rookie pitchers seems to be the most common one I've seen.

These two comments aren't related in any way other than that fans complain about both.

And both complaints I suspect are without merit.

17. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 09, 2005 at 04:58 PM (#1607528)

And both complaints I suspect are without merit.

Really? Does Tampa Bay have an 11-5 record against anyone else this year?

18. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 05:22 PM (#1607605)

The Pantload will get shelled tonight. No question about it.

LET'S GIVE STEROIDS A BIG CURTAIN CALL!!!

19. Halofan Posted: September 09, 2005 at 05:45 PM (#1607681)

Whorish Plug for my blog:

Vote for your LEAST Favorite Red Sock:

http://www.halosheaven.com/?op=poll_vote;qid=1126065684_YXwWkPNX

20. Mattbert Posted: September 09, 2005 at 05:51 PM (#1607702)

halosheaven.com

I have a strange desire to see if the domain shavenhalo.com is still available. But it just doesn't seem as funny as I want it to be.

21. covelli chris p Posted: September 09, 2005 at 05:54 PM (#1607713)

you left out millar. i voted for schilling though.

22. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 06:24 PM (#1607793)

Boy, Schilling is run away with that, isn't he?

23. VG Posted: September 09, 2005 at 06:52 PM (#1607877)

Go Yankees.

24. RobertMachemer Posted: September 09, 2005 at 07:17 PM (#1607931)

For the curious...


           dERA  dERA
Wells      3.76  4.33  Small
Schilling  3.83  4.55  Chacon
Wakefield  4.74  3.95  Johnson

RED SOX    4.29  4.35  YANKEES

The difference between the two pitching staffs seems likely to be defense and park-effects. And I have no idea why Schilling is so exceptional -- probably been working out with Kevin Brown or something.

25. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 07:20 PM (#1607938)

Schilling seems so funny because he went through a peroid where he was giving up nothing but ringing line drives.

26. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:05 PM (#1608061)

“Why does <team X> always kill us, but bend over for our division opponents”

Hey, I completely agree that this is retarded.

<i>you left out millar. i voted for schilling though.</i.

Screw that if Millar is left out.

Is it wrong of me to still dream of the Red Sox passing the White Sox for best record in the AL?

27. villageidiom Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:05 PM (#1608065)

Same with Johnson. That period is referred to as "2005".

28. villageidiom Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:09 PM (#1608075)

Is it wrong of me to still dream of the Red Sox passing the White Sox for best record in the AL?

They didn't need home field in 2004. Why start now?

29. VG Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:09 PM (#1608077)

Is it wrong of me to still dream of the Red Sox passing the White Sox for best record in the AL?

As I said, Go Yankees.

30. Larry Bowa Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:15 PM (#1608091)

So do Yank fans feel they NEED a sweep to win the AL East? Can they make do with 2 of 3? If they only win 1, do most Yank fans think the AL East is out of reach?

Just wondering what the consensus is.

31. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:15 PM (#1608092)

Heh.

32. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:25 PM (#1608124)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees lost four in a row to the Sox.

33. Danny Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:27 PM (#1608134)

It sucks having to root for my least favorite team against my second least favorite team.

34. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:32 PM (#1608151)

2 of 3 leaves them with a chance, but they gotta start beating the Devil Rays.

35. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:42 PM (#1608185)

I think buries is a little strong, but I don't think they win the division even with a sweep

36. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:46 PM (#1608194)

I think buries is a little strong, but I don’t think they win the division even with a sweep

Neither do I, but a sweep will certainly incite some sort of panic among Red Sox fans...

37. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:47 PM (#1608198)

Incidentally, despite the 4 run lead in the standings, the Sox have the same W3/L3 record as the Yankees, namely 79-60. The Sox have D3 of +3, the Yankees of -1. I remember last year when the Yankees were winning the division while outperforming their pythag, and Sox fans were using that to show the Sox were indeed the better team. [Looking at W1/L1 tho, the Sox go have a two game advantage... Also, CLE has the best W3 in AL]

BP adjusted standings...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php

38. Danny Posted: September 09, 2005 at 08:53 PM (#1608216)

It could be worse, googleboy.

Found any German language steroid articles lately?

You could be having to root for your least favorite team against your second favorite team.

I can't imagine a situation in which I'd be rooting for the Red Sox against the Giants.

39. nickm Posted: September 09, 2005 at 09:03 PM (#1608244)

“The one thing is the Red Sox have to avoid being swept and put the Yanks right back in it. One thing that troubles me is that the Sox have not hit pitchers they don’t know and have trouble with guys that pound the strike zone (like Small)… it’s (the series) is so important for the Yankees.” – 9.9, ESPN’s Peter Gammons on WEEI’s Big Show

Hehe. Gammons reads my posts (see #11).

40. nickm Posted: September 09, 2005 at 09:19 PM (#1608298)

Larry, what is your take on this series?

41. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 09, 2005 at 09:48 PM (#1608410)

Always fun to play the Yankees.

Here's to an entertaining series, something we can all agree on.

42. nickm Posted: September 09, 2005 at 09:51 PM (#1608422)

BTW, this is kind of an obvious point, but given that it is just dawned on me, maybe some of you did not look at it quite this way:

Fans of any contender in the AL, other than the Yankees, should root for the Sox in this series, as the chances of their team to make the playoffs increase with every Sox win, and decrease with every Yankees win in this series.

Go Sox!

43. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:00 PM (#1608464)

Is this game on NESN?

44. villageidiom Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:03 PM (#1608478)

Hehe. Gammons reads my posts (see #11).

And Biff's posts. (#8)

45. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:04 PM (#1608481)

Weekly: "Channel 38" in Boston....aka the local UPN affiliate. As well as ESPN, of course.

nickm - good point, you're right. The only possible exception I suppose would be the White Sox, who should be considered the only "lock" at this point, and only really have home field advantage vs. Boston (which, if you think about it, *could* potentially become important) to worry about the rest of the way. I don't blame Vince for rooting against us.

Everyone else in contention though should be praying for a Red Sox sweep, or at least 2 out of 3.

46. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:16 PM (#1608509)

espn sportsnation



1) Do the Red Sox and Yankees own the best rivalry in sports?



75.6%Yes

24.4%No



2) Has the rivalry between the Red Sox and Yankees lost any luster this season?



48.3%A little

37.1%None

14.6%A lot



3) Which team do you root for when the Red Sox and Yankees play?



58.3%Boston Red Sox

24.7%New York Yankees

17.0�n they both lose?



4) Which weekend series between contenders deserves the most attention?



70.0%Red Sox at Yankees

11.7%Marlins at Phillies

7.3%Angels at White Sox

5.6%Twins at Indians

2.3%Braves at Nationals

1.8%Mets at Cardinals

1.3%Padres at Dodgers



5) What will be the result of this weekend's series in New York?



54.1%Red Sox win two

23.1%Yankees win two

11.7%Red Sox win three

11.0%Yankees win three



6) What is the best pitching matchup of the series?



58.3%Tim Wakefield vs. Randy Johnson

22.6�vid Wells vs. Aaron Small

19.1%Curt Schilling vs. Shawn Chacon



7) Which team has the more dangerous lineup?



73.6%Red Sox

26.4%Yankees



8) Which team is better on defense?



64.0%Red Sox

36.0%Yankees



9) Which team has a better bullpen?



72.9%Yankees

27.1%Red Sox



10) Which team will win the AL East?



81.7%Red Sox

18.3%Yankees



11) Will the wild card come from the AL East?



61.4%No

38.6%Yes



12) Which AL team will advance to the World Series?



46.1%Red Sox

34.7%Someone else

19.2%Yankees



Total Votes: 4,171

47. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:20 PM (#1608519)

I'm out. Enjoy the game, fellas.

(god damn it why isn't bellhorn playing uewagjalkwgj)

48. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:20 PM (#1608520)

This is the interesting part

10) Which team will win the AL East?

81.7%Red Sox
18.3%Yankees

BPro's odds of winning the divisio

BOS: 83.67%
NYY: 16.32%

11) Will the wild card come from the AL East?

61.4%No
38.6%Yes

Bpro's odds of wild card coming from:

AL east: ~24%
AL cent: ~71%
AL west: ~5%

[I think ESPN is trying to put Bpro out of business]

49. Шĥy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:20 PM (#1608521)

10) Which team will win the AL East?

81.7%Red Sox
18.3%Yankees

BPro's AL East Division Odds:

83.67300
16.32330

Not bad for the common folk.

50. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:21 PM (#1608524)

Why, why oh why? :) lol

51. Шĥy Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:22 PM (#1608528)

What are the odds?

52. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:23 PM (#1608531)

What are the odds?

I don't think BPro has published them yet...

53. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:26 PM (#1608537)

Where does Joe get these line-ups? What compells him to play Cano aganist a lefty sometimes but not others? Argh

54. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:39 PM (#1608557)

Torre likes that Cano has hit .257/.303/.330 vs LHP
Lawton is hitting .216/.308/.331 vs. LHP in 2005

Jeter should have many runners to drive in today

55. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:42 PM (#1608563)

And Lawton! Good god, the horror!

56. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 10:43 PM (#1608567)

Crosby isn't proven enough to start for Torre.

57. 1k5v3L

Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:01 PM (#1608586)

The only opportunity for GIDP that Jeter cares about is bottom of the 9th, down by a run, 1 out.

58. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:06 PM (#1608597)

What was Sutcliffe talking about? There must be guys with one hundred scored the last two seasons and at least 164 runs driven in. A-Rod is one I'm sure, Manny and Jeter probably too.

59. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:09 PM (#1608605)

Maybe Sutcliffe meant leadoff men?

Nah, he probably just didn't know what he was talking about.

60. Foster Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:11 PM (#1608612)

I just got Boston ay +145 to win the series. I figured that was worth a few bucks.

61. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:12 PM (#1608613)

Who knows? There's a lot of good things to say about Damon, just seemed bizarre to say something so plainly untrue

62. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:13 PM (#1608617)

What's the Yankee arm patch?

63. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:15 PM (#1608619)

I think it's the Salvation Army.

64. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:17 PM (#1608622)

I guess that's Katrina relief, makes sense. God, I forgot how bad Sutcliffe is

65. covelli chris p Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:18 PM (#1608626)

what an amazing catch!

66. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:19 PM (#1608629)

Small crowd tonight, I guess the Sox fans think--correctly--they have this wrapped up and the Yankee fans can't stand any more of this team

67. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:22 PM (#1608631)

I think Wells is even fatter than he used to be. That's amazing

68. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:23 PM (#1608633)

I think Wells is even fatter than he used to be. That’s amazing

A lot of us can say that

69. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:24 PM (#1608638)

That's small crowd here by the way, not at the Stadium.

According to Sutcliffe, Varitek is to baseball as Secretariat is to horse racing. We have an earliest contender for stupidest comment of the night

70. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:25 PM (#1608639)

Millar is to horse racing what Secretariat was to horse racing. Both should be out to pasture.

71. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:26 PM (#1608640)

geez......I meant....ahhh, you know what I meant

72. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:28 PM (#1608645)

One good thing going for Wells is that he's pitching against the Yankees.

73. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:30 PM (#1608650)

That's proof that Alex isn't a True Yankee, he didn't ground out.

74. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:31 PM (#1608651)

This is probably pretty close to the Yankee's righty pitcher lineup. Which explains why it's being employed now.

75. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:32 PM (#1608654)

Next hit will be Giambi's 100th of the season.

76. Phil Coorey. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:33 PM (#1608656)

What the ####### that Graff.

77. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:33 PM (#1608657)

Next walk will be his 90th of the season.

78. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:34 PM (#1608660)

How did Graffanino do nothing wrong? Millar was late covering, but Tony threw the ball to the Yankee dugout

79. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:34 PM (#1608661)

Sutcliffe thinks Graffanino "did absolutely nothing wrong". Tony's throw missed by 10-15 feet.

80. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:35 PM (#1608663)

(Sutcliffe, by the way, said Graffanino did nothing wrong and didn't deserve an error)

81. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:36 PM (#1608664)

I mean, we are unfair sometimes in these parts when it comes to announcers...but Sutcliffe is just horrendous.

82. Phil Coorey. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:36 PM (#1608666)

Wasting pitches now. This is annoying

83. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:36 PM (#1608667)

Is Wells still fat?

84. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:37 PM (#1608668)

Solid AB, Ruben. Real ####### solid

85. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:37 PM (#1608672)

Ruben Sierra. Wow.

86. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:39 PM (#1608676)

Santana and the Twins are rolling over for the Indians.

87. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:39 PM (#1608677)

Millar went after a batted ball that was 20 feet to his right. That's why the play screwed up in the first place. Crack YES annoucer squad failed to recognize this.

88. Phil Coorey. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:41 PM (#1608684)

Millar is a total dumbass there. Did he not even realise there was a little shift on??

89. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:41 PM (#1608685)

This is a freakin' joke. We all know Small stinks. And he's 34 years old or whatever.

90. Flynn Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:42 PM (#1608686)

"Small could have a no hitter so far tonight"

By Rick Sutcliffe. In the second inning.

How did this guy ever win a Cy?

91. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:43 PM (#1608689)

Millar should be getting zero AB's in road games. HE CAN'T HIT ON HR ROAD TITO!

92. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:43 PM (#1608690)

Well, if Sutcliffe's point is that none of the Sox hits have been smacked, he has a better-than-avergae, for him, point. Of course, I doubt that's what he means

93. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:44 PM (#1608692)

Here comes the at 'em ball. Count on it.

94. villainx Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:44 PM (#1608693)

“Small could have a no hitter so far tonight”

Cool, that means Small had no hit stuff in the first inning too, right?

95. tfbg9 Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:45 PM (#1608696)

Saunders.

96. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:46 PM (#1608698)

Damn you Bernie Williams' rag arm

97. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:47 PM (#1608702)

This is the strangest looking no-hitter I have ever seen.

98. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:47 PM (#1608703)

And Matt Lawton's incompetant outfield defense

99. Phil Coorey. Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:47 PM (#1608704)

I love it when Renteria goes the opposite way

100. covelli chris p Posted: September 09, 2005 at 11:47 PM (#1608706)

matt lawton looks real good out in right field.

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