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   101. TheUFactor Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:12 AM (#2529231)
You have to be REALLY bad to give up seven runs to the Nationals "offense," Mets bad.
   102. Joshemy Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:13 AM (#2529235)
I was thinking that myself Sam. I would pull everybody out of the game too.
   103. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:14 AM (#2529236)
Another pitcher who won't throw strikes. Put in the next one, until somebody does.
   104. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:15 AM (#2529239)
Sam, the only reason not to do that is that you could sure use the regulars to try and score three off of the Nats. If it getd more out of hand, that's another story. But 7-4 is doable.
   105. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2529241)
also, in Sosa's defense, this is his third day in a row.
   106. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2529242)
OMG I don't have my eyes anymore because I clawed them out.
   107. Banta Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2529243)
This is not a playoff team.
   108. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2529244)
Still, he should know how to throw home.
   109. Bob Koo Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2529245)
This is beyond embarrassing.
   110. will Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:17 AM (#2529246)
Mets are playing like they think the Nats are the Phillies
   111. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:17 AM (#2529247)
This team is done. The rest is just details.
   112. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:18 AM (#2529248)
Sam, the only reason not to do that is that you could sure use the regulars to try and score three off of the Nats. If it getd more out of hand, that's another story. But 7-4 is doable.

Don't care. Really don't. The "regulars" need to be sent a message.

Sosa is a complete and total airhead. Unreal.
   113. Joshemy Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:18 AM (#2529249)
All that keeps popping in my head is Willie saying... "It happened so fast."
   114. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:18 AM (#2529253)
This is not a playoff team.

Remember the 1999 Mets? Who lost to Joe Grahe? They were also a playoff team.
   115. Banta Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:21 AM (#2529258)
Excellent ####### pitching.
   116. Banta Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:21 AM (#2529261)
Great ####### managing.
   117. Joshemy Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:22 AM (#2529262)
He's not throwing strikes. Pull him.
   118. Banta Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:22 AM (#2529263)
Remember the 1999 Mets? Who lost to Joe Grahe? They were also a playoff team.

This is worse.
   119. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:23 AM (#2529266)
Don't you think Sosa had a good shot at starting the double play, but no one was covering?
   120. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:25 AM (#2529267)
This is worse.

That remains to be seen. That swoon meant they needed a miracle to make the playoffs. This is the fourth game, and they've still got a lead in the division.

I will say I don't remember two uglier games from a mental mistake level. But I plan to go back and check.
   121. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:29 AM (#2529271)
I will say I don't remember two uglier games from a mental mistake level.

Mental mistakes. Physical mistakes. Managerial mistakes. Pitching ineptitude. At bats just given up with a poor (i.e., given up) approach. This has been abysmal, and the worst part is that the manager refuses to hold anyone accountable in any real way.

Something fundamental has to change. Period.
   122. Chris Dial Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:29 AM (#2529273)
Who's job is it to keep the pitching staff together? This is ridiculous. the walks the last week have been absurd.
   123. will Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:30 AM (#2529276)
Phillies 7 Cards 0
   124. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:31 AM (#2529277)
Willie needs to have a tirade. The entire team has been horrible the last two games.
   125. Chris Dial Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:31 AM (#2529278)
You know, dumping a 7 game lead with 17 to play is EPIC.

It's only surpassed by dumping 7 games with 10 to play, but absolutely not "just the players" fault.
   126. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:32 AM (#2529280)
Of course the walks have been absurd. So have the errors. So have the managerial mistakes. There's enough blame to spread all around the clubhouse, that's for sure.
   127. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:33 AM (#2529281)
Willie has to try to use Humber or Pelfrey in the BP.
   128. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:36 AM (#2529289)
Why look -- they took the out. I didn't know fielders could do that. Huh.
   129. Chris Dial Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:38 AM (#2529291)
Do we not coach against walking players? I mean, is this some kind of policy?
   130. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:38 AM (#2529292)
MVP! MVP! MVP!
   131. billyshears Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:39 AM (#2529293)
Willie has to try to use Humber or Pelfrey in the BP.


I was there six hours ago.
   132. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:40 AM (#2529294)
You know, dumping a 7 game lead with 17 to play is EPIC.

You're not quoting our former Core Values are you? Oh wait, that'd be EPPIC.
   133. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:43 AM (#2529295)
Since it's clear that Willie just won't call this team out, it's time for Omar to do so. He ought to talk menacingly about changes and unacceptable approach and demand that the time play up to its ability.
   134. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:45 AM (#2529298)
Would all you whiny Mets fans rather be up 2½ games if you happen to lose, or down 2½ games. It's all about perspective.
   135. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:45 AM (#2529300)
Since it's clear that Willie just won't call this team out, it's time for Omar to do so. He ought to talk menacingly about changes and unacceptable approach and demand that the time play up to its ability.


it's way way way way way way WAY too late for that.
   136. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:46 AM (#2529302)
Would all you whiny Mets fans rather be up 2½ games if you happen to lose, or down 2½ games. It's all about perspective.


I believe we'll have perspective with both here within the next few days.
   137. Joshemy Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:47 AM (#2529303)
Error #3. Sweet!
   138. Sam M. Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:48 AM (#2529307)
Enough is enough.
   139. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:48 AM (#2529308)
it's way way way way way way WAY too late for that.

What? This team was up 7 games before the Phillies series. The time has come to make a statement now but the team had been doing very well relatively recently.
   140. Chris Dial Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:48 AM (#2529309)
Would all you whiny Mets fans rather be up 2½ games if you happen to lose, or down 2½ games. It's all about perspective.

I'd just rather we didn't play like ####.
   141. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:52 AM (#2529312)
Grand Slam Ryan Howard - Phils 11, Cards 0
   142. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:52 AM (#2529313)
Would all you whiny Mets fans rather be up 2½ games if you happen to lose, or down 2½ games. It's all about perspective.

I'd like to see how momentum looks tomorrow, when the Mets start John Maine instead of Brian Lawrence, with a rested bullpen (ie. the pitchers who will actually matter in October) behind him.
   143. will Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:52 AM (#2529314)
TOP OF 6....PHILLIES 11 CARDS 0
   144. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:53 AM (#2529316)
What? This team was up 7 games before the Phillies series. The time has come to make a statement now but the team had been doing very well relatively recently.


does anybody really think omar talking "ominously" is going to save this season with 13 to play?
   145. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:54 AM (#2529320)
mlbtv has really been spotty the past couple days. I lose feed like every 20-30 minutes (and then get to sit through an ad while reloading...grrrrr). Anybody else having problems?
   146. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:55 AM (#2529322)
I'd like to see how momentum looks tomorrow, when the Mets start John Maine instead of Brian Lawrence, with a rested bullpen (ie. the pitchers who will actually matter in October) behind him.

FWIW - the Phils start Cole Hamels against the Cards bullpen tomorrow.
   147. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:58 AM (#2529329)
Does anybody really think omar talking "ominously" is going to save this season with 13 to play?


Good point.
   148. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 01:59 AM (#2529330)
it's like the fall of rome, if rome was built shoddily over the 2006-07 offseason.
   149. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:01 AM (#2529335)
cards showing life - 11-3.
   150. TerpNats Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:03 AM (#2529338)
And with Florida's 11-6 loss at Atlanta, it appears the Nats will go up two games on the Fish in the race to avoid the cellar.
   151. TheOtherHarris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:03 AM (#2529339)
I've been having the same mlbtv problems, Harris. It's incredibly annoying when it blacks out during a key play. Was thinking about sending them an email for having to pay for shitty service...
   152. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:05 AM (#2529340)
uhhh - didn't know you were a subscriber.....
   153. TheOtherHarris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:06 AM (#2529341)
Well, the half price deal just before the ASB was hard to pass up...and that was back when the Braves were slightly more 'worth watching.'
   154. Chris Dial Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:06 AM (#2529342)
The lead was smaller a month ago, so I'm not terribly worried, but I'd rather we not make it exciting - or lose.
   155. Joshemy Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:07 AM (#2529344)
#4!
   156. Amit Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:09 AM (#2529347)
Time to start watching the Padres on the scoreboard?
   157. Harris Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:10 AM (#2529348)
last year the pads couldn't lose during the last 2 wks of the season....
   158. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:20 AM (#2529365)
Time to start watching the Padres on the scoreboard?


only if you're a glutton for punishment
   159. Amit Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:21 AM (#2529366)
Brian ####### Lawrence. Thanks Willie and Omar!!!
   160. Joshemy Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2529368)
Thus ends another game of awful Mets baseball.
   161. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:24 AM (#2529371)
FWIW - the Phils start Cole Hamels against the Cards bullpen tomorrow.

but this isn't about the Phillies. The Mets need to play as they are capable. If they do, no one will stop them in the Nl. If they play like this, it doesn't matter. Does that really seem likely to all of you? Even now?
   162. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:26 AM (#2529374)
The Mets need to play as they are capable.


they. can't. pitch. they don't have the horses right now. it's that simple.

frankly I think they're going to need some miracle staff-wide turnaround to keep from blowing the whole enchilada.
   163. AJMcCringleberry Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:27 AM (#2529379)
I stopped watching once Sele came in. I'm glad I did.
   164. Old Matt Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:37 AM (#2529391)
12-9 Phillies...
   165. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:40 AM (#2529394)
12-9 Phillies...


that's as close as the cards are going to get.
   166. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:40 AM (#2529395)
they. can't. pitch. they don't have the horses right now. it's that simple.

Right. The bullpen that can't pitch includes Billy Wagner (2.38 ERA, 1.50 in September), Aaron Heilman (3.20 ERA, three straight months under 3 ERA, 2.41 since the break) and Pedro Feliciano (2.91 ERA, 2.45 in September after a 3.18 August). The starters include Glavine (no more than 3 ER in any start in roughly three months), Pedro (do I need to cite any numbers here? Really?) and two others, Maine and Perez, with season ERAs of 3.72 and 3.43. But Perez pitched well the start before last, while Maine has had two good starts in his last three. You'd have to figure at least one of them turns it around- the other will be bullpen help come the postseason to go along with the three mentioned above, Jorge Sosa (kills righties) and Scott Schoeneweis (kills lefties).

Who exactly has this many horses? Oh, and this assumes El Duque doesn't come back, which there is no reason to believe.

I think a lot of people are going to feel silly counting this team out.
   167. Barry Gibb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:41 AM (#2529397)
but this isn't about the Phillies. The Mets need to play as they are capable. If they do, no one will stop them in the Nl. If they play like this, it doesn't matter. Does that really seem likely to all of you? Even now?


i believe the mets pythagorean is now something like 81-68. playing as they are capable would have them at 2 more losses, and the braves .5 up, with their pythagorean at 82-68. unfortunately both teams have been plagued by some "spotty" managing, and the mets have been luckier late in games.
   168. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:43 AM (#2529402)
i believe the mets pythagorean is now something like 81-68. playing as they are capable would have them at 2 more losses, and the braves .5 up, with their pythagorean at 82-68.

Ah, and I'm sure that pythag record takes into account a healthy Pedro.
   169. rr Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:48 AM (#2529410)
The Mets will be fine.
   170. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:50 AM (#2529414)
Right. The bullpen that can't pitch includes Billy Wagner (2.38 ERA, 1.50 in September), Aaron Heilman (3.20 ERA, three straight months under 3 ERA, 2.41 since the break) and Pedro Feliciano (2.91 ERA, 2.45 in September after a 3.18 August). The starters include Glavine (no more than 3 ER in any start in roughly three months), Pedro (do I need to cite any numbers here? Really?) and two others, Maine and Perez, with season ERAs of 3.72 and 3.43. But Perez pitched well the start before last, while Maine has had two good starts in his last three. You'd have to figure at least one of them turns it around- the other will be bullpen help come the postseason to go along with the three mentioned above, Jorge Sosa (kills righties) and Scott Schoeneweis (kills lefties).

Who exactly has this many horses? Oh, and this assumes El Duque doesn't come back, which there is no reason to believe.

I think a lot of people are going to feel silly counting this team out.


nobody can pitch the fifth and sixth right now, howard (and in tonight's case, the fourth). heilman, feliciano and wagner are worthless if you can't get to them, and the starters are all worthless if you can't protect the leads they give you. and there's really really really really not that much time for the middle relief to turn it around.
   171. Old Matt Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:58 AM (#2529432)
12-10
   172. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:58 AM (#2529433)
The Phillies are trying to recreate 1964 in one night ...
   173. Old Matt Posted: September 18, 2007 at 02:58 AM (#2529438)
12-11. Pujols up.
   174. Srul Itza Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:02 AM (#2529445)
So exactly why the hell couldn't the Mets score on that bull pen?

Because they were too busy choking, that's why.
   175. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:04 AM (#2529450)
Can't swing the bats with one hand on your neck, eh?

Blah, a walk for Pujols is a bad thing for the Mets.
   176. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:06 AM (#2529458)
Whoa. Rowand nearly let that one get away.

Gordon not available? Cards broadcasters said no one was warming up. If they wouldn't use him there when would they? Did Charlie send him back to the hotel when it was 11-0?
   177. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:06 AM (#2529460)
What was that from Rowand?
   178. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:07 AM (#2529463)
Gordon and Myers pitched in three straight game against the Mets.
   179. Old Matt Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:10 AM (#2529474)
That was one of the most insane catches ever.
   180. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:13 AM (#2529486)
whoa

I missed some kinda game, didn't I?

Can the Cardinals save us?
   181. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:13 AM (#2529488)
nobody can pitch the fifth and sixth right now, howard (and in tonight's case, the fourth). heilman, feliciano and wagner are worthless if you can't get to them, and the starters are all worthless if you can't protect the leads they give you. and there's really really really really not that much time for the middle relief to turn it around.

Well, they'll need pitchers to give them six consistently. fortunately, they have four starters with an ERA under 4, not including Pedro.
   182. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:16 AM (#2529494)
Well, they'll need pitchers to give them six consistently. fortunately, they have four starters with an ERA under 4, not including Pedro.


it's interesting you use that word, given that there's 13 games left and the mets are in freefall. I'd say the team needs pitchers to give them at least six NOW, as in starting tomorrow.
   183. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:16 AM (#2529496)
Well, by "some kinda" I mean "some kinda horrific".

I have to follow this game on yahoo here. It would really rock if the cards can actually win this game in the 9th. Then again, we don't really deserve it.
   184. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:18 AM (#2529502)
Ohhh Aaron Rowand. Why fight it? You're going to lose.
   185. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:22 AM (#2529509)
it's interesting you use that word, given that there's 13 games left and the mets are in freefall.

Four in a row is freefall, eh? Well, it just so happens that tomorrow's starter averages EXACTLY six innings per start this year. And he ended the Mets losing streak two weeks ago.
   186. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:23 AM (#2529510)
I guess I have my answer on Gordon. Francisco Rosario gets the call after the lefty strikes out Ankiel. And Rosario is all over the place on Taguchi.
   187. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:25 AM (#2529511)
Tying runs aboard ...
   188. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:26 AM (#2529516)
Four in a row is freefall, eh?


it is when the team seven losses behind you wins (at least) four in a row at the same time.
   189. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:28 AM (#2529520)
Barden pops up. Two out - it's up to Branyan.
   190. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:28 AM (#2529521)
Russell Branyan is the last hope. A guy who can hit a homer.
   191. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:29 AM (#2529526)
Full count ...
   192. Urban Faber Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:31 AM (#2529528)
Called strike three. Phils hang on.
   193. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:31 AM (#2529532)
the phils are a team of destiny.
   194. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:31 AM (#2529534)
Ah, you can't expect the Cardinals to help the Mets.
   195. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:32 AM (#2529536)
Well, well. We finally found a lead even the Phillies can hold.

Let's see what the season looks like tomorrow.
   196. Lassus Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:33 AM (#2529537)
Wow, what a tease. I really thought the Cards were going to win that one. Watch them destroy us.
   197. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:35 AM (#2529542)
If the Mets win tomorrow with John Maine, and the Phils lose with their ace, leaving the Mets ahead 3.5 with 12 to go, it'd seem about over, no?
   198. HowardMegdal Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:36 AM (#2529543)
Think of it this way, people- now I'll get a chance to cover the game when the Mets clinch.
   199. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:37 AM (#2529544)
If the Mets win tomorrow with John Maine, and the Phils lose with their ace, leaving the Mets ahead 3.5 with 12 to go, it'd seem about over, no?


maybe we can let maine prove he won't be "spaced-out-distracted-by-a-bumblebee-on-the-mound" john maine tomorrow before we crunch numbers?
   200. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 18, 2007 at 03:42 AM (#2529554)
Ha, I just realized something. This is nearly the same situation as the last time the Phils got this close. John Maine making a start with Pelfrey backing him up against a division rival.
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