BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Rays (4-5) @ RedSox (4-5), Monday, April 16, 2012, 11:05am

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Monday, April 16, 2012

Rays (4-5) @ RedSox (4-5), Monday, April 16, 2012, 11:05am

TBR:James Shields (30, RHP, 1-0, 5.54)
BOS:Daniel Bard (27, RHP, 0-1, 9.00)

The Primer Chimp Posted: April 16, 2012 at 10:00 AM | 250 comment(s)
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101. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4107793)

It's not a good sign that Remy and Orsillo are bored like this in mid-April during a pitcher's duel on a beautiful day at home against a great club.

Not only that, but Bard's second career start! If they can't even feign interest in Bard as a starting pitcher matchup up pitch for pitch with Shields on a good day, they need to be replaced with some people who actually give a #### about baseball and enjoy watching it/calling games.

102. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4107797)

Salty jammed on a 79 MPH changeup?

He doesn't seem to have a plan when he goes to the plate, unless the plan is, I'll just swing at everything.

103. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4107798)

I mean can you imagine how much Eckersley would add to this broadcast, talking about Bard's mechanics, Bard's grips, his pitch selection, and the transition between the bullpen and the rotation? Instead we get Jerry yucking it up and not even watching the game.

104. Answer Guy Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4107799)

But yeah this seems like a AAA lineup outside of AGon, Pedroia, and Ortiz.

105. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4107800)

Nice change.

106. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4107802)

If the outfield is going to be so short on bats, they need to at least get a better glove in center to keep Ross in a corner.

107. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4107803)

The game is on HD TV here, but it's getting bad enough that I'm thinking of switching to the Laptop so I can watch it with Trup and Obie.

I think that's perhaps the biggest insult I can give to a broadcaster: I switched to inferior TV quality because of you!

108. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4107805)

Quote from Don, "This is good TV" as the camera focuses on the empty chair where Tom Carron will sit at the ballpark. This was part of a 2 minute discussion about how long it would take TC to get to Fenway. I hate these guys.

109. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4107806)

Bard's had a great day, and he really hasn't even looked sharp.

110. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4107807)

That was a 10 pitch inning for Bard. He's at 87 through 6.

111. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4107810)

OK, I'm done, laptop is going on.

112. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4107813)

I never for a second thought that Aviles' ball wouldn't drop for a hit. ####### Rays and their defensive positioning.

113. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4107816)

Extreme pull shift, Gonzalez rolls over a fastball and grounds to Peña. Brilliant hitting, Adrian.

114. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4107817)

This one is breezing right along.

115. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4107824)

Bard seems pretty gassed. I'd pull him after Jennings no matter what the outcome is and go to Morales for Peña.

116. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4107825)

"Scout" tells me Bard may be running out of gas. So glad I have "Scout" to be my eyes and ears at the ballpark--he catches things I never would have guessed myself.

[/sarcasm]

117. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4107826)

Thomas and Albers warming?

118. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4107827)

I mean can you imagine how much Eckersley would add to this broadcast, talking about Bard's mechanics, Bard's grips, his pitch selection, and the transition between the bullpen and the rotation? Instead we get Jerry yucking it up and not even watching the game.

I would kill myself if I had to listen to Eck for a full season. Yes, I think a game like this he could bring a lot to the broadcast but I also think that 140-150 games of Eck would be an overwhelming helping of "moss" "cheese" and assorted other Eck-isms that would be worse than Remy.

119. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4107828)

"Scout" tells me Bard may be running out of gas. So glad I have "Scout" to be my eyes and ears at the ballpark--he catches things I never would have guessed myself.

Yeah, that's a new thing this year isn't it? Not exactly dazzled by it so far.

120. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4107829)

Thomas? Ugh.

121. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4107831)

Who was the catcher from Toronto that filled in a few games? He was great.

122. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4107832)

Thomas and Albers warming?

Ugh. Albers is fine but Thomas just shouldn't be anywhere near this roster.

123. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4107833)

Ross in CF is a ####### joke.

124. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4107834)

You know, if this ump would call high strikes Bard wouldn't have 5 walks and might be cruising here.

125. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4107835)

Ross does not seem to position himself well.

126. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4107836)

Ross is practically playing on the warning track in CF. If he were positioned like a real CF who they weren't afraid of having balls sail over his head, that ball from Jennings is an out.

127. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4107839)

I like that Bobby is letting Bard try and get it done here. Give the guy a chance to see what he can pull out of his reserves in the 7th. Probably not the right move for this game but long term it is a good call from Bard's development.

128. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4107840)

BV better understand that *this* is the big LHB for the next 3 innings, and thus your best LHP should face him... and he won't be, because he'll go to the "6th/7th inning LOOGY" instead.

[bangs head]

...or he'll just let Bard gas himself...

[sigh]

129. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4107841)

And Bard's giving up a 3 run shot to Pena here even though he has no business still being in this game. He ptiched great, he's out of gas. Where's the ####### bullpen?

130. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4107843)

So, it's gonna be Albers v. Longoria. Blerk.

Bard went bad crazy quick there.

131. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4107844)

I don't know if Morales is available - he's pitched back to back days.

132. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4107845)

Well, hell, might as well let him pitch to Longoria, because Longoria will beat the #### out of Albers if Albers comes in.

133. Good cripple hitter Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4107846)

Who was the catcher from Toronto that filled in a few games? He was great.

I'm pretty sure that was Gregg Zaun.

134. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4107848)

I don't get this. It's early in the season and he's gassed.

135. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4107849)

I'm done defending Valentine. This is ridiculous.

136. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4107850)

Ugh, is there any feature that works less often than MLB's audio overlay? It's such a great idea, yet at the first hiccup NexDef will revert back to the TV audio. I've taken to watching the game while listening to WEEI on my phone.

137. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4107853)

Remember when Frank Catalonatto used to kill the Red Sox? #randombaseballmemory

138. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4107854)

Just ####### fire Valentine now.

139. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4107855)

So, it's gonna be Albers v. Longoria. Blerk.

Was it Longoria or Upton who made Albers his ##### in September?

Holy crap is he really letting Bard face Longoria? Development is one thing, but if he's done he's done.

140. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4107856)

I wouldn't take the bat off my shoulder until I get to 2 strikes.

141. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4107858)

I really don't get having the guy who can't throw strikes pitch to Longoria with the bases loaded. If Matt Albers is all you've got - shouldn't Padilla have been available - he has to pitch.

142. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4107860)

That was absolutely stupid and unnecessary.

143. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4107861)

Ugh. Terrible move. Bard wasn't even close on any of those.

144. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4107862)

I'm shocked, shocked that Bard was gassed with that many pitches. Shocked.

145. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4107863)

Terrible tactical managing there, right? But maybe good long term thinking as Jose suggests.

146. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4107864)

Serious. Get Valentine the #### out of here.

147. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4107865)

That was Gump-esque managing there.

148. Lassus Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4107866)

Odd.

149. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4107867)

Yeah, that's a new thing this year isn't it? Not exactly dazzled by it so far.

Hey, earlier it told me that Bard was trying to keep Jennings clos... after Jennings had stolen second.

Also, no idea why Bard was pitching to Longoria there. Or Pena for that matter...

150. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4107868)

It was good nothing. The guy was clearly gassed, and now you've taken what was a good start and ended it on a ####### awful note.

Go #### yourself, Valentine.

151. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4107869)

This one's on you BV. Especially when Albers gives up the GS here.

A lobotomized cockroach could have managed this inning better.

152. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4107870)

I don't get this even from the perspective of stretching him out. 100 pitches and nearly 7 IP is great for a start in April. He should have pulled the trigger much earlier.

153. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4107872)

hey, that was a good pitch by Thomas!

154. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4107873)

Or Thomas walks in two more runs.

Madness. Utter madness. Long-term development my ass. 6.2 IP with 0/1 runs would have been a fine, fine outing. It's his 2nd start in the big leagues for god's sake.

155. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4107874)

I hope the fans booed BV when he popped his head out of the dugout.

156. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4107876)

Thomas does not look horrible through 3 pitches.

157. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4107877)

Seriously, Thomas again? At this point BV is really just trying to ### with Bard's ERA.

158. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4107879)

Valentine was audibly booed as he went to the mound to lift Bard.

159. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4107881)

I hope the fans booed BV when he popped his head out of the dugout.

They did boo Valentine. Quite lustily.

160. Textbook Editor Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4107882)

#158--Good. And I hope they cheered Bard like hell when he walked off. This is a hell of an outing. So far Bard/Dubront have been way, way better than I think a lot of folks thought they'd be.

161. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4107885)

I love that there is figuratively nothing we would put past Bobby V. If Tito bought in Thomas we might think it was dumb, but now it's a grand conspiracy to show up Cherington and get Bard in the pen (and possibly Oswalt in the rotation?).

162. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4107886)

Scout is telling me 'Thomas showed faith in Salty by throwing the slider in the dirt with a runner on 3rd'. Me, I think he just showed a lack of command.

163. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4107887)

I really hate God Bless America.

164. karlmagnus Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4107888)

I always thought Bard would be good. making him a starter was the ONLY good move the management made over the winter.

165. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4107889)

Bard did get cheered. I hope Bobby V got booed as much for the slow hook as for Youkilis. He deserves a boo for both.

166. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4107893)

Karl is like the Spanish Inquisition, you never expect him. I mean, you know what's coming when he shows up but he does it well. It's not like Yankee Redneck who is as predictable as the tides, karl sneaks his shots in there with nice timing. I don't think I fully appreciate his genius.

167. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4107894)

I love that there is figuratively nothing we would put past Bobby V. If Tito bought in Thomas we might think it was dumb, but now it's a grand conspiracy to show up Cherington and get Bard in the pen (and possibly Oswalt in the rotation?).

You got a turd in your pocket? Who's this we? :)

I don't think that's a likely explanation. More likely, I think BV just wanted to stretch him out, but it was a bad decision.

168. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4107896)

Nothing I hate more than swinging at the first pitch to start an inning.

169. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4107898)

Leaving him in to face Peña was stupid. Leaving him to face Longoria was unconscionably irresponsible.

170. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4107900)

For that matter, putting Ross in CF instead of McDonald or Sweeney could possibly have cost the Sox this game, since a faster guy in CF catches that "single" that Jennings hit before the deluge of walks.

171. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4107901)

Really need to drive up Shields' pitch count and get to the Rays awful bullpen while it's still a 1 run game.

172. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4107902)

Good at bat so far by Ross.

173. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4107903)

Ross is not good so far in the OF. Positioning is off.

174. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4107904)

If Ross follows up this long AB with a long bat-flipping homer, all will be forgiven.

A single makes me feel somewhat better.

175. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4107905)

Great at bat by Ross, though.

176. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4107906)

You got a turd in your pocket? Who's this we? :)

I don't think that's a likely explanation. More likely, I think BV just wanted to stretch him out, but it was a bad decision.

I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying that even people who like Bobby V think he's slimy as hell. If anybody was going to pull that, it would be him.

I think he wanted to win too, but Bard was obviously gassed. He was so gassed it would have passed the "my mom is screaming at the TV to take him out" test.

177. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4107909)

I don't get this even from the perspective of stretching him out. 100 pitches and nearly 7 IP is great for a start in April. He should have pulled the trigger much earlier.

I don't think it's an issue of stretching him out. I think it's an issue of letting him learn how to make pitches when he is fatigued. I'm fine with letting him have Pena, but Longoria is one too many.

178. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4107912)

It's also ####### ridiculous that Albers and Thomas were the 2 arms warming in a tie ballgame in the 7th inning.

179. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4107913)

Valentine seems to have no understanding of leverage.

180. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4107917)

I think it's an issue of letting him learn how to make pitches when he is fatigued.

I don't get how that's sound reasoning. As he approaches 100 pitches, he's fatigued. He's probably starting to feel tired after 90 pitches. When he's well over 100 and not throwing even a single strike, then you just have to recognize that it's no longer "development." You still have to win ballgames too.

181. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4107918)

Also: is Melancon now behind Albers on the depth chart? So glad we traded Lowrie for a guy who is apparently now considered worse than Fat Matt Albers.

182. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4107919)

inning killer there

183. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4107920)

Good job Valentine running the team into 2 outs with the starting pitcher's pitch count on the rise and a factor. ####### brilliant.

184. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4107922)

So glad we traded Lowrie for a guy who is apparently now considered worse than Fat Matt Albers.

The Sox traded a DL spot for a pitcher that they can actually use in a ballgame, when they want to lose that ballgame.

185. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4107923)

Shields at 93 pitches is really a ####### fantastic time to give away outs on the bases.

186. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4107924)

Jesus Christ on a popscicle.

187. Joel W Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4107925)

It's also a recipe for an injury to have him out there when he's fatigued like that.

188. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4107926)

The Rays don't go a single game without spending 30 minutes of their TV broadcast talking about Game 162.

189. The Marksist Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4107927)

And it's not like Ross is much of a base stealer. 28 in his MLB career.

190. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4107928)

The Rays don't go a single game without spending 30 minutes of their TV broadcast talking about Game 162.

I'm willing to bet that in April, 2005 you heard a hell of a lot about October, 2004 on NESN.

191. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4107929)

The Sox traded a DL spot for a pitcher that they can actually use in a ballgame, when they want to lose that ballgame.

The thing is, during the time when he's healthy, Lowrie is a useful ballplayer. That has more value than a reliever who is only used for mopup.

Punto's defense has ####### sucked ass for a glove first utility guy.

192. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4107930)

I'm willing to bet that in April, 2005 you heard a hell of a lot about October, 2004 on NESN.

Winning the world series is a bit more worthy of extended replay than winning a wild card berth.

193. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4107931)

The Rays don't go a single game without spending 30 minutes of their TV broadcast talking about Game 162.

Well, they didn't get a chance to talk about it on air much after that. :)

194. Dan Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4107932)

What rule prevents him from letting that drop? That's ########.

195. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4107935)

PUT ONE IN HIS EAR!

196. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4107936)

What rule prevents him from letting that drop? That's ########.

It's well-known that you can't do that. You can't do it in little league either.

197. Chip Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4107937)

The kindest interpretation I can give to that managerial half inning is that it was a Titoesque attempt to let Bard get that third out and still be in line for a win after his excellent outing, if the offense could do something in the bottom of the 7th.

198. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4107938)

It's also ####### ridiculous that Albers and Thomas were the 2 arms warming in a tie ballgame in the 7th inning.

Aceves and Morales have both pitched back-to-back days. My guess is they want to rest the pen.

I really don't see the evidence that they're generally unwilling to bring good relievers into high leverage situations before the 8th.

That doesn't constitute a defense of leaving Bard in, but I don't think that using Albers/Thomas is inexplicable. I just think he should have used them.

199. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4107939)

nice throw...

200. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole)

Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4107940)

Inning should be over. All 4 of Thomas's pitches to Brignac have been strikes.

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