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Tuesday, May 08, 2012

RedSox (12-16) @ Royals (9-19), Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 8:10pm

BOS:Daniel Bard (27, RHP, 2-3, 4.38)
KCR:Danny Duffy (23, LHP, 2-2, 3.57)

The Primer Chimp Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:00 AM | 79 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4126852)
No chatterers?
   2. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4126853)
Turned on the game just in time to see Ortiz fly out with the bases loaded.

Red Sox baseball!
   3. UnclePab Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4126854)
I was going to say something about getting a 2-out, run scoring hit and consecutive batters reaching base, but didn't want to jinx it.
   4. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4126855)
And Middlebrooks leaves with an injury, looked like he tweaked his hammy.
   5. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4126856)
Wow. Middlebrooks injured.

What a season.
   6. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4126859)
Bard's really missing his spots here.
   7. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4126860)
Back up to 95, though. I do like to see that.

Bard deserves a DP here for all the balls that have gotten through.
   8. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:50 PM (#4126861)
Throwing strikes is fun.
   9. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4126862)
Moose Tacos does us a solid there, he wasn't driving that pitch on 3-1.
   10. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4126864)
Stop arguing and top being stupid. Even if he stepped why make hte move? What's the urgency?
   11. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4126867)
From Extra Bases;

Middlebrooks was a third baseman in high school and has played only third base professionally. Could he play the outfield?

“I don’t know,” Bobby Valentine said. “It’s been tossed around in some quarters."

Generally speaking, Valentine said third baseman do not make good corner outfielders...

"It hasn't been a table discussion yet. So I don't think it even has to enter his domain. That being said, I think he's a pretty — small sample, my being around him — he's a pretty mature baseball guy. He's not going to be flustered by a lot of things."
   12. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4126869)
What the ####? It's Mike Moustakos, not Willie Wilson.
   13. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4126870)
Bard. Keep it together, man.
   14. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4126871)
If I'm the Royals I send Getz, no reason to wait.
   15. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4126872)
This inning feels like a microcosm of the Red Sox season thus far.
   16. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 08:58 PM (#4126873)
He's coming unglued nicely here.
   17. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:01 PM (#4126875)
Wow that was right down the middle.
   18. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4126877)
Thanks, for bailing Bard out there, Royals!
   19. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4126883)
Going from Will Middlebrooks to Nick Punto in the lineup is a touch disappointing.
   20. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4126884)
Ugh.
   21. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4126885)
Manager to Duffy: Throw strikes. That is Nick Punto up there.
   22. Mattbert Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4126891)
Watching some of the kids get a chance to play and develop was shaping up to be one of the few enjoyable aspects of this season. Figures that would get ruined as well.
   23. Textbook Editor Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4126904)
Josh Hamilton ht 4 HRs in tonight's game.
   24. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4126905)
Nice to see Bard get it back together after losing the plot there. His changeup can be pretty nasty when he's got it going.
   25. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4126907)
Wow, not bad.
   26. Darren Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4126926)
0 Ks for bard
   27. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4126937)
Similar to Doubront last night. Pitching well enough against a weak lineup do far. Doubront didn't get his first k until the sixth I don't think. Other than the brain fart second he's been good.
   28. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4126955)
Hamilton had a 1.138 OPS before this outburst.
   29. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4126958)
Bard is extremely efficient tonight.
   30. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4126966)
Middlebrooks down? I'm not sure whether I'm glad to be missing so much baseball lately or not.


(Tonight's movie: White Stillman's Damsels in Distress. There's something wrong with the film industry when it takes Stillman 15 years to get a new movie made.)
   31. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4126971)
In other good news - the Mo Rivera strike zone is alive and well for the Robertson....
   32. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4126974)
This is the part of the night where I say... " here we go again"
   33. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4126982)
Whew.
   34. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4126983)
Hell of a play on both ends. Shoppach with a serious block.
   35. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4126985)
One more out - c'mon Sox - that last play was great
   36. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4126986)
In other good news - the Mo Rivera strike zone is alive and well for the Robertson....
Well, the umpires want to honor Mo somehow.
   37. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4126987)
Runners can't go into the plate head first, you aren't moving a catcher doing that and you're just going to break your hand.
   38. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4126989)
Ok, Timlin in the eighth, Williamson in the ninth and let's go to bed.
   39. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4126992)
Marlon Byrd not exactly cementing his place on this roster.
   40. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4126995)
As well as he has pitched I'm not excited about Brd in the eighth here. He was up with a lot last inning.
   41. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4126998)
Uh, Bobby, it might be time to get Bard out of there.
   42. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4127000)
Yup, he's tired. Everything up, can't find the plate.
   43. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4127001)
Fire.

Him.
   44. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4127002)
Albers?
   45. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4127004)
here we go again ....
   46. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4127006)
This better be one and done for Albers. Hill for Hosmer, right?
   47. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4127007)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhh!!!!!!
   48. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4127008)
Wow, what a surprise.
   49. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4127009)
Not even surprised
   50. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4127011)
Goodnight all - take care as always
   51. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4127012)
I like that Valentine doesn't go looking for the reliever who's got nothing, but he has a Grady-Gump-level of awareness of when a starter is gassed.
   52. Textbook Editor Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4127015)
See, here's the thing Bobby V... Albers just isn't as good as his gleaming ERA would lead you to believe. If you asked around, you'd find out he wasn't very good last year, and maybe you'd realize a few innings of pixie dust don't make a season.

   53. Textbook Editor Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4127018)
The "scout" is telling me Albers may prefer to go after Hosmer... Um, no you idiot. He'd prefer to have not given up the f-ing HR.
   54. Textbook Editor Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4127022)
I like that Valentine doesn't go looking for the reliever who's got nothing, but he has a Grady-Gump-level of awareness of when a starter is gassed.


Yup. I'm starting to think the brilliant tactician some of us (incl. me) imagined we'd be getting in BV ain't walking through that door. Instead... Grady Gump II.
   55. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4127026)
BV was saying stupid stupid stuff on ESPN last year - it's carried over - he clearly is not fit for the job. It was a stupid publicity stunt from the start - ####### disgraceful effort from the FO.
   56. Dan Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4127027)
So last night I was crazy for saying Bobby V...and tonight everyone in chatter is saying it :P
   57. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4127029)
Hey, I was with ya'!
   58. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: May 08, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4127032)
No, it's still batshit insane to say it. You people have lost all perspective.
   59. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4127034)
No, it's still batshit insane to say it. You people have lost all perspective.


I really freaking hate BV - he's shown me jack ####### #### so far - the guy is not fit for the job - this team can only beat crappy central teams on a good day.

So - yeah - no perspective from me - I think he is a freaking moron
   60. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4127035)
So last night I was crazy for saying Bobby V...and tonight everyone in chatter is saying it :P


I fully support your thoughts now - I hate looking at the guy - he ####### sux
   61. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4127036)
Right. This place is less a thinking man's site and more SOSH every day.
   62. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4127037)
No, it's still batshit insane to say it. You people have lost all perspective.
This. FCS people.
   63. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4127038)
Well, crap. That stings a little bit.
   64. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4127039)
Right. This place is less a thinking man's site and more SOSH every day.


Oh for ##### sake - they have just thrown another game away - can't we be ####### angry ? #### - should have left when I said I would
   65. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4127041)
How many games is Valentine going to blow before we are allowed to criticize him? Fine, don't fire him yet. But can we at least acknowledge that he has been AWFUL so far?
   66. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4127044)
Look, no one is disputing that the starting pitching remains the primary problem but Bobby Valentine is doing a wretched job.
   67. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4127047)
I just can't believe opinions or emotion are not allowed here - I'm a total loss with this season - it's just mind boggling the games they are losing - surely we are allowed to show that

...and I agree with 65 and 66 with all my heart
   68. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:14 PM (#4127051)
Look, no one is disputing that the starting pitching remains the primary problem...
along with the injuries to Ellsbury, Crawford, Youkilis, and Bailey.

I won't speak for anyone else, but it's not the emotion, it's the seeming knee-jerk search for who to point the finger at. "I know the starters haven't been good at all, and [wave hands] injuries...but IT'S VALENTINE'S FAULT!! AAAAHHHHHHH! FIRE HIM!!!!"
   69. Jay Seaver Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4127058)
I'm not in the "fire him" brigade, but seeing the same thing happen so many times makes me a bit worried.
   70. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4127059)
If the Sox were leading the league in runs and Mike Aviles were hitting .147 wouldn't we be screaming to replace him? I think it is an apt analogy.

Bard and Albers have to get the job done in the 8th but Bard was clearly fatigued (read my post #40) and Albers is Albers. With three lefties out of four to start the inning why not go to Hill or Morales to start the inning?

Bobby Valentine has done an awful job so far, awful. Do you dispute that? No one has said it's all Valentine's fault. What HAS been said is that he's been terrible. I think if you read through the threads you will see a lot of comments about Clay Buchholz, Mark Melancon, Vicente Padilla, Marlon Byrd and others who have failed to do their jobs this year. Bobby is on that list and he has impacted the last couple of close losses in a pretty clear and negative manner.
   71. Dan Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:29 PM (#4127060)
I never said everything or even a plurality of the blame was on Valentine, just that he's been a net negative. He's probably at most 5-10% of what's wrong with the team. The point is simply that he's not part of the solution, so why not get someone in there who is? And shake things up before they're completely out of the race?
   72. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4127062)
You can express your emotions. I just don't understand why anyone would keep watching the game when it makes them so angry.

That is a separate issue from the "fire Valentine" contingent. I think the premise of the site is BaseballTHINKFactory. I wasn't aware that "fire Valentine" was a thinking man's thought. I see nothing wrong with bringing in Albers tonight. You have to bring in someone. Albers is a perfectly acceptable choice. He's a guy who can get K's. It's a free-swinging lineup. But whatever. I think MCoA was right last night. The tone is wrong here. And it's quickly becoming not fun to listen to the ########. Watching the games is still fun. Bard was really efficient tonight. Adrian mashed a ball to the gap. Bird got some nice swings and struck out on a 99 MPH fastball that Pedroia also whiffed on. Those were good things to see.

It's like hell has become other Red Sox fans.
   73. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:41 PM (#4127067)
He's probably at most 5-10% of what's wrong with the team.


Wrong. If you just do some basic math you can see that this is wrong, wrong, WRONG. So, over the course of the season, Valentine is responsible for 5-10% of the team's ERA? 5-10% of RISP? 5-10% of errors? You people want to blame someone or something so badly for losing that you pick out the easy scapegoat. And if you really believed it was just that 5-10%, you'd know that there were other fish to fry.

And hey, guess what? 5-10% is 8 to 16 wins or losses over the course of the season. This is, to reverse course from what I said in Sox Therapy, plainly stupid. No manager contributes that much to the success of a team.

It's like you're all on crazy pills.
   74. Dan Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4127070)
DId I say he's responsible for 5-10% of the team's entire results? Did I say at least? Unless you're suggesting everything this team does is wrong, I don't see how you get that derivation.
   75. Dan Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:48 PM (#4127072)
If the team were to finish 20 games below expectations, that 5-10% would have him causing 1 or 2 of those losses.
   76. Dan Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4127074)
And I don't think the team will finish 20 games below expectations, that was just an "as far out that as reasonably conceivable" example.
   77. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: May 08, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4127079)
Speaking of Marlon Byrd, he's really terrible and we should stop running him out there.
   78. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 09, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4127094)
You can express your emotions. I just don't understand why anyone would keep watching the game when it makes them so angry.

That is a separate issue from the "fire Valentine" contingent. I think the premise of the site is BaseballTHINKFactory. I wasn't aware that "fire Valentine" was a thinking man's thought. I see nothing wrong with bringing in Albers tonight. You have to bring in someone. Albers is a perfectly acceptable choice. He's a guy who can get K's. It's a free-swinging lineup. But whatever. I think MCoA was right last night. The tone is wrong here. And it's quickly becoming not fun to listen to the ########. Watching the games is still fun. Bard was really efficient tonight. Adrian mashed a ball to the gap. Bird got some nice swings and struck out on a 99 MPH fastball that Pedroia also whiffed on. Those were good things to see.

It's like hell has become other Red Sox fans.


I'm an emotional person - and yep there was some good stuff today - it's been a very frustrating season - see you on the other side
   79. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4127407)
I never said everything or even a plurality of the blame was on Valentine, just that he's been a net negative. He's probably at most 5-10% of what's wrong with the team. The point is simply that he's not part of the solution, so why not get someone in there who is? And shake things up before they're completely out of the race?
You don't fire a high-profile, highly paid baseball manager 29 games into his tenure for being a small part of the problem with a team with several larger, much more obvious problems. If you can't see that you're just not being rational.

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