BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: RedSox (44-44) @ Rays (46-42), Sunday, July 15, 2012, 1:40pm

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Sunday, July 15, 2012

RedSox (44-44) @ Rays (46-42), Sunday, July 15, 2012, 1:40pm

BOS:Josh Beckett (32, RHP, 4-7, 4.43)
TBR:James Shields (30, RHP, 8-5, 4.17)

The Primer Chimp Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:00 AM | 63 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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1. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4183053)

Apparently I'm allergic to poor managing, because after last night's game I broke out in hives and they still haven't gone away.

2. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4183088)

Off to a great start here, Josh.

3. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4183090)

Ace-o-riffic, just like his last start.

4. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4183094)

Legitimate question: why was Theo obsessed with signing #2ish starters for 80% of the money of top flight starters rather than going after the actual frontline guys like Sabathia, Lee, etc.?

5. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4183096)

There's an open base. Why are we letting Beckett face the incredibly dangerous Hideki Matsui?

6. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4183103)

Legitimate question: why was Theo obsessed with signing #2ish starters for 80% of the money of top flight starters rather than going after the actual frontline guys like Sabathia, Lee, etc.?

Maybe Lucchino wanted to preserve in amber the belief that the Red Sox will never, ever be able to spend as much as the Yankees, and letting the top flight guys go for top dollar to other teams accomplishes that.

7. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4183109)

Well that happened quickly.

8. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4183119)

Offense shouldn't have even bothered putting Beckett right back in the game.

9. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4183121)

Looked like that could have been a Jeteresque phantom tag by Aviles. NESN camera angle made it impossible to judge.

10. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4183129)

Just tuned in, and surprise! 3 runs in the first? I feel like Helen Hunt in "As Good As it Gets": "WHY CAN'T I HAVE A NORMAL BOYFRIEND?", with Josh Beckett, and DiceK, and Lester, sometimes, playing the part of Melvin. "WHY CAN'T THE RED SOX HAVE STARTERS WHO CAN GO 5 OR 6 INNINGS WITHOUT GIVING UP MORE THAN A RUN OR 2?"

11. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4183132)

"WHY CAN'T THE RED SOX HAVE STARTERS WHO CAN GO 5 OR 6 INNINGS WITHOUT GIVING UP MORE THAN A RUN OR 2?"

Especially against crap lineups like the one the Rays roll out there these days.

12. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4183133)

And Beckett, DiceK and Lester hear that and say to themselves "Starters? Hmmmm..." and then ask me to go for a walk to get some warm rolls.

Well, #### that, I'm not going anymore.

13. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4183136)

Nova's getting absolutely lit up by the Angels.

14. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4183140)

Weaver not exactly dominating the Yankees, though.

15. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4183143)

Yeah, Weaver's pitching like a Red Sox pitcher, giving back runs in the half inning right after his offense hands him a lead.

16. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:03 PM (#4183152)

Middlebrooks: no longer slumping.

17. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4183154)

Ridiculous that Ciriaco is playing over Punto based on a few lucky singles over the last week.

18. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4183155)

Bunt singles are kinda fun.

19. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4183156)

Ridiculous that Ciriaco is playing over Punto based on a few lucky singles over the last week.

Eh, they both suck, at least Ciraico is fast.

Oh come the #### on Ellsbury.

20. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4183157)

SQUANDER!

21. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4183158)

3-1 count, fastest guy on the team, hits into DP with runner on third. Ugh.

22. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4183159)

"Sometimes the biggest gambles are taken off the tables."

"Ok, NO STD's, come on, NO STD's!"

23. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4183160)

Eh, they both suck, at least Ciraico is fast.

At least Punto knows how to not swing at pitches at his ankles.

24. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4183163)

I just can't get myself into a place where I'm pining for Punto. Won't happen.

25. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4183168)

Weaver just allowed another homer.

26. Textbook Editor Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4183173)

So... Any thoughts on the Edes article re: Youkilis/Valentine?

If Youk was the "snitch" on the chicken/beer thing... and they then get rid of Youkilis... I'm confused--couldn't that be seen as being protective of the chicken/beer brigade... a brigade that has not exactly performed well this year?

27. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4183175)

You won't believe the weird game I just played.

28. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4183176)

I just had the TV muted, as I was on the phone. As I came back in the room with the TV, I saw the score was still 3-3, with Nava up. I said to myself, "if I can un-mute the TV before another run is scored, I will live forever."

I took off the mute, and 5 seconds later, Nava hits the HR.

29. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4183177)

As the Edes article notes, the "Youks was the snitch" story, and the fact he didn't deny being the snitch, was not news.

30. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4183178)

I better make plans. Or, not. I have all of eternity to do things.

31. Dan Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4183182)

Remy is such an #######

32. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4183184)

Remy's definitely right to be mocking that place for its unending artificially generated noise. Another reason it's the most horrible place to ever see a baseball game, even on the dome scale.

33. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4183185)

As the Edes article notes, the "Youks was the snitch" story, and the fact he didn't deny being the snitch, was not news.

Wait, what?

34. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4183188)

Middlebrooks is crazy strong to one-arm a ball off the end of the bat and hit it hard enough to get it through the infield.

I also think a real shortstop plays that ball.

35. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4183189)

This is the April 17 Edes column he references in today's piece. From April:

Josh Beckett complained bitterly about clubhouse "snitches," and it turns out he and other players made some effort to identify who the "snitch" was, the person or persons Beckett and others felt had leaked damning information about things that went on in what the players considered their inner sanctum.

There were reasons to believe Youkilis was one of the players called out by Beckett. Youkilis was asked Monday whether that was true.

"There were tons of things going around where guys had questions," Youkilis said Monday.

36. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4183190)

I had missed that. Huh.

37. Textbook Editor Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4183194)

My point just is: isn't getting rid of the "snitch" a move that seemingly comes down on the side of a "protect Beckett and the chicken/beer guys at all costs!"-type move? And would this explain the supposed hitters v. pitchers divide that's been hinted at for a while now?

If they truly got rid of Youkilis because he, you know, cared about pitchers getting plastered and fat in-season... well, that's one hell of a statement about where the priorities are, right?

38. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4183196)

The "Youks was the snitch" stuff might also helps explain why Youkilis reacted so defensively, and angrily, when presented with the out-of-context Valentine comments at that time.

39. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4183199)

If they truly got rid of Youkilis because he, you know, cared about pitchers getting plastered and fat in-season... well, that's one hell of a statement about where the priorities are, right?

Well, "cared about" is one way of articulating it. "Didn't do anything about it and then made his teammates out as villains in the press" is another way of saying it.

I think the Youkilis trade was pretty well indefensible, but I don't think Youkilis tattling on his teammates was a particularly praiseworthy act.

40. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4183201)

If they truly got rid of Youkilis because he, you know, cared about pitchers getting plastered and fat in-season... well, that's one hell of a statement about where the priorities are, right?

That's one way to spin it. Another way to see it is that Youkilis, already bitter at certain teammates over their lax behavior in September, became more bitter and distant from the rest of the clubhouse when they witchhunted him. Getting hurt and losing playing time because Middlebrooks took off like a house-a-fire only made the situation more combustible with him.

41. Textbook Editor Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4183206)

It's possible Youkilis (just guessing) may have seen the writing on the wall as far as the team coming to his defense/fixing the problem (i.e., that he knew they wouldn't, especially after Francona left)... and for that reason decided not to go public. But I'm just guessing.

I agree Youkilis should have just said what he wanted to say on the record and let the chips fall (certainly you'd think the fans would have been behind him; it's not like the fans had the warm fuzzies toward the starters last year). But it's also possible he did try to address it in-house, met a stone wall/inaction, and felt he had no choice but to go public by leaking... but if he did it publicly, he may have felt (quite rightly, as it turns out) that he's be jettisoned by the F.O... and that maybe he didn't want to leave.

42. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4183207)

Second good thing today, besides Middlebrooks continuing to heat up coming off his HR last night: Ellsbury appears to be getting his timing back.

43. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4183208)

I haven't seen most of his PA, but Ellsbury looks a lot like 2011 Ellsbury so far. He's working the count extremely well, and his swing looks good too.

44. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4183214)

How would he have had "no choice but to go public by leaking"? He couldn't have decided to keep his mouth shut and let the FO deal with it as they saw fit? His job was to play ball, for millions, not to snitch. I like Youkilis, as a player, but if he leaked the info, he was wrong, just a s I think the pitchers were wrong to get out of shape last year (Beckett especially, that ####### pantload).

45. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4183215)

OK, time to break this game open and get a series win, which is imperative against every AL East opponent from hereon.

46. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4183220)

And of course Gonzalez puts up a horrible AB.

47. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4183224)

Well, they haven't blown it open yet, but at least Ross avoids the Super Squander.

48. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4183228)

That's terrible by Ross & Ciriaco both.

49. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4183233)

With a five-run lead, Angels closer Frieri goes walk/HR/walk to start the 9th, and Scioscia has to yank him.

And Downs immediately misplays a rocket up the middle into a single to bring the tying run to the plate.

50. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4183245)

They still haven't told us who threw out Zobrist. The camera didn't show it (or I missed it).

51. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4183246)

It should have been the 2B.

52. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4183247)

Aviles was the cutoff man.

53. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4183248)

Kelly Downs has repeatedly hung curveballs to Granderson in an obvious attempt to give up the game-winning grand slam.

54. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4183252)

And he walks Granderson. Complete Angel bullpen meltdown. Downs out, Jepsen in to face A-Rod.

55. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4183254)

Scott Downs is apparently trying to just completely nuke his ERA over the course of two games.

56. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4183255)

Right, Scott not Kelly.

57. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4183257)

Jepsen gets Rodriguez to pop it up and end it.

58. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:45 PM (#4183262)

Jenny Dell hasn't gotten any better at whatever it is she's doing on NESN.

59. Textbook Editor Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4183287)

IBB MATSUI TO PREVENT THE GRAND SLAM! MANAGERIAL BRILLIANCE!

60. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4183288)

Had to make it interesting, didn't you Alfredo?

61. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4183289)

Lovely.

62. Chip Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4183290)

Ha.

63. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4183291)

They should have swept the series.

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RedSox (44-44) @ Rays (46-42), Sunday, July 15, 2012, 1:40pm

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