BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Tigers (23-25) @ RedSox (24-24), Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 7:10pm

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Tuesday, May 29, 2012

Tigers (23-25) @ RedSox (24-24), Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 7:10pm

DET:Justin Verlander (29, RHP, 5-2, 2.15)
BOS:Daniel Bard (27, RHP, 4-5, 4.69)

The Primer Chimp Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:00 AM | 225 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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101. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4142556)

Cabrera's gonna tie it up.

102. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4142557)

I guess you get that coke back, Chip.

103. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4142558)

Bobby V. sure noticing the velocity drop, and getting Albers up in the pen.

104. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4142560)

As Remy notes, drops arm angle down to throw 94 for strike two to Cabrera.

105. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4142561)

And we're back to 94 again. Bard's mechanics are so ####### inconsistent.

106. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4142562)

The 4 pitch walks to the #9 guy are an indicator to me that it's in his head.

0-2, let's see him blow this.

107. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4142564)

Now 95 MPH in the 2-2 count, and Cabrera very late.

108. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:47 PM (#4142565)

Thanks for chasing Miggy.

109. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:47 PM (#4142566)

Nasty slider to get him.

110. Jay Seaver Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:47 PM (#4142567)

Escape!

111. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4142572)

Wow, he stole second before Mariano even threw a pitch!

112. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4142573)

MC, why is Gonzalez going to be okay? I'm pretty worried about him.

113. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4142574)

Hmmmm...nice base running by Gonzo, not so nice by Papi.

114. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4142575)

Dumb Papi, dumb.

115. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4142576)

Making the first out at third. Brilliant.

White Sox take a 3-2 lead over the Rays, and still have runners on the corners with 1 out.

116. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4142577)

HORRIBLE baserunning. No outs, you're slow, and you go for it?!

117. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4142578)

Now we need some rain.

118. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4142579)

MC, why is Gonzalez going to be okay? I'm pretty worried about him.

Also, this.

119. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4142580)

Cabrera looking light on his feet there.

120. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4142581)

I'd love to believe Gonzalez will be okay, but objectively I don't see it right now.

121. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4142582)

Does anyone relate to the 1800 ads at all?

122. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4142583)

It's sad that it's exciting that Bard has 3 Ks.

123. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:01 PM (#4142585)

Does anyone relate to the 1800 ads at all?

Not only do I not relate to them, but they're ####### retarded. Tequila in a glass is not a cocktail.

124. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4142586)

Christ that was an awful mistake.

125. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4142587)

Nice 2 strike pitch, Bardo.

Tonight is progress, but he's still not right.

126. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4142589)

I give up.

127. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:05 PM (#4142590)

Good time to lift Bard, I thin, with 2 lefties due up.

128. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:06 PM (#4142591)

Having sat three rows off the field down near third base the other night, I can attest that way too many people in the close sits pay little or no attention to the game. Don't know if it was a factor in that person getting hit. Just one example among many: I sure feared for the lives in the clueless mother and the two young children she and her husband had in the first row seats in front of us to our right on Saturday. That woman had her head turned away from the field more than she was facing it most of the night. She could have easily been felled by a liner in the back of the skull and never known it was coming.

129. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4142593)

I'm not sure how much progress it is. In the end, he gave up 2 HRs and walked 2 while only K'ing 4 in 5.1 IP. That's a pretty poor outing.

130. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4142594)

Gonzalez really needs to stop pursuing balls that are hit to the second baseman.

131. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4142596)

I'm not sure how much progress it is. In the end, he gave up 2 HRs and walked 2 while only K'ing 4 in 5.1 IP. That's a pretty poor outing.

His velocity was better, his walks were down, and his Ks were up. That's progress.

132. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4142598)

His velocity was better, his walks were down, and his Ks were up. That's progress.

His BBs and Ks were offset by the HRs he gave up.

133. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:13 PM (#4142599)

Gonzalez really needs to stop pursuing balls that are hit to the second baseman.

I think Millar taught him this.

134. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:13 PM (#4142600)

Yes, a 2:1 K:BB ratio is a dramatic improvement on his recent outings.

Nice job walking the second lefty on nothing close, Rich Hill. You looked like Javier Lopez doing that.

135. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4142602)

I'm really not that worried about the homers. They're only the 4th and 5th home runs he's allowed all season.

136. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4142603)

...and that's how you pitch to Ramon Santiago.

137. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4142604)

MC, why is Gonzalez going to be okay?

200 PA with league average hitting stats happen to good hitters reasonably frequently. He looks to me like he's pressing, leading to more swings at pitches out of the zone. The observational evidence for the injury seems limited to "he's not hitting home runs", which isn't really observational evidence at all.

138. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4142606)

Podsednik's deal with satan is paying off for us.

139. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4142607)

And the Scott Podsednik Experience continues.

Punto made hard contact!

140. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4142608)

Dont dive into first base.

141. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:23 PM (#4142609)

Gonzalez had a 104 OPS+ over 213 PA in Jul-Aug 2008. He was under 100 from mid-June to mid-August 2009.

142. veer bender Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:23 PM (#4142610)

He's been getting that outside curve to LHH all night.

And he just figured it out, tried to throw one even further out there and found the ump's limit.

143. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:23 PM (#4142611)

I'm really not that worried about the homers. They're only the 4th and 5th home runs he's allowed all season.

And one of thmem was to Prince Fielder. ##### happens.

144. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4142612)

May 2010, 115 PA at 105 OPS+.

145. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:25 PM (#4142615)

I'd feel better if Gonzo's HRs had at least turned into doubles instead of singles/nothing.

146. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:25 PM (#4142616)

200 PA with league average hitting stats happen to good hitters reasonably frequently. He looks to me like he's pressing, leading to more swings at pitches out of the zone. The observational evidence for the injury seems limited to "he's not hitting home runs", which isn't really observational evidence at all.

He isn't driving the ball to LF with authority at all though. He isn't just "not hitting home runs" he's not hiting the ball hard.

147. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4142619)

Reddick would have homered there!

148. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4142620)

Or, what Chip said.

149. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4142621)

He isn't just "not hitting home runs" he's not hiting the ball hard.

That's still mostly a results observation. All hitters make mostly weak to medium contact - otherwise they'd all hit .400. Gonzalez has of course made lots of hard contact - the line single tonight off Verlander, the homer this weekend, and so on.

Do you see something different in his swing? Is he compensating for a shoulder injury in a way that can be seen and described?

150. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4142622)

I'd feel better if Gonzo's HRs had at least turned into doubles instead of singles/nothing.

That's what happens when you're in a slump. You get fewer hits and fewer homers and fewer walks. Slumps are a part of baseball, they've been a part of Adrian Gonzalez's career for years, as I showed.

151. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4142623)

Now Salty is possibly hurt?

152. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4142624)

Miller is not going to be an easy guy to bunt. He throws hard and he's wild.

153. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4142625)

Oh good, our hottest hitter is also hurt.

154. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4142626)

What is the deal with Andrew Miller, good pitcher who throws strikes?

155. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4142627)

"Feeling ill." And Remy points out he needed an IV for dehydration over the weekend.

156. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4142629)

Sick is better than injured. If this is the way he hits when he's sick let him hang around emergency rooms.

157. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4142630)

So, hangover?

158. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4142632)

Apparently Bob McClure told him to forget the last seven years of his life and go back to his college mechanics.

159. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4142633)

Apparently Bob McClure told him to forget the last seven years of his life and go back to his college mechanics.

Seriously?

160. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4142634)

If you stay drunk you never get hung over.

161. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4142635)

You showed that he's had periods of league averagish hitting. You didn't really address the shape of that performance. Were those slumps bad BABIP luck with singles not falling in, or did they involve not hitting for power or walking like the current slump?

162. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4142636)

From Extra Bases today;

Andrew Miller: Credit his inexplicable rise to pitching coach Bob McClure, who advised Miller to return to the mechanics he used in college. But credit Valentine for putting Miller in positions to succeed. That was something no other manager figured out. That the tall lefty has a 0.62 WHIP is astounding given his history.

163. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4142637)

Third straight inning with the tie run up and the Tigers inch closer. This game feels like it should be more comfortable.

164. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4142638)

Were those slumps bad BABIP luck with singles not falling in, or did they involve not hitting for power or walking like the current slump?

All three are the latter. You can look it up.

165. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4142639)

Gonzalez walked at a reasonable rate in 2008 and 2010, but not in summer 2009.

166. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4142640)

You jinxed Miller into throwing a shitting hanging curve on 1-2 to Fielder.

167. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4142643)

Rays and Orioles are both trailing late. If the Sox can hang on they'll make up more ground tonight.

168. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4142644)

Thanks to Padilla getting Young, they can end the game without allowing Cabrera or Fielder to the plate again. Please, please make this happen.

169. veer bender Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4142645)

So, hangover?

Even by the hopefully high standards of pro athletes, catchers really shouldn't ever be hungover on start days. They get regular days off, and there's all that book-learnin' to keep your brain busy. Never mind the risk involved in not being able to see (or remember) the number of fingers in front of you.

170. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4142646)

The cover's off the tarp, so a rain-shortened ending would also help.

171. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4142648)

Damn David.

172. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4142649)

Huge insurance run. We love Papi Who Goes to Left.

173. Jay Seaver Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4142650)

David Ortiz: Still good, even against lefties.

174. veer bender Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4142651)

So, the way BV is tearing through the pen for matchups (generally, I'm quite in favor), I assume that means Aceves is available?

175. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4142652)

400 career HRs by the ASB for Papi? Certainly possible.

176. Jay Seaver Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:51 PM (#4142653)

Shut up, Youk. There's no bench.

177. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4142654)

Middlebrooks is available.

178. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4142656)

Just looking at the graphic and I wouldn't have thought Aviles' OBP was .288. I didnt think it was .350 or anythingbut I would have guessed in the .310-.320 range.

179. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4142657)

I didn't realize Smyly had hit a wall like that. Thought he was still pitching well.

180. Darren

Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4142658)

On Bard, it's not so much I'm worried about the homers. It's just that when you improve your K/BB ratio at the cost of giving up 2 HRs you haven't really done any better.

Ortiz has been great and I'm glad we have him. But it's funny that Beltran's kept right up with him.

181. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4142662)

Eephus success.

182. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4142663)

Rays loss final. Orioles trail 8-4 after 8.

183. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4142665)

They're really going to waste time reviewing that?

184. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4142666)

DO they have 0 understanding of how a ball bounces? If that was over the wall it wouldn't have bounced back like that, it would've fall more straight down from hitting the net.

185. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4142667)

Bending over backwards to accomodate Leyland after yesterday's problems.

186. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4142669)

Good god, what a waste of time

187. Jay Seaver Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4142670)

Nice play on both ends there.

188. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4142671)

That's a he'll of a scoop by Gonzalez.

189. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4142673)

Just had lightning in Tewksbury.

190. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4142674)

I think Padilla could throw 50 consecutive shutout innings and I wouldn't feel comfortable with him.

191. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4142679)

It's raining! Call it Tschida!

192. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4142681)

Wow it's pouring. Don't see the stands empty that quickly too often.

193. Jay Seaver Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4142682)

And here comes the tarp. Time for part 2 of Hatfields & McCoys, methinks.

194. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:15 PM (#4142683)

Toronto trying to blow its lead in the 9th. Reynolds is the tying run at the plate with 1 out.

195. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4142686)

Goddamned Blue Jays trying to hand their game to the O's.

196. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4142687)

And Janssen walks Reynolds, bringing up Davis, who has already homered, as the go ahead run.

197. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4142689)

Wow great running play by Paul Lawrie to catch a foul pop up despite playing way off the line in the shift.

198. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4142690)

Wow. Lawrie just made a fantastic sliding catch in foul ground on a ball that didn't spend too terribly long in the air.

199. Chip Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4142691)

Game over. Sox can still close to 3 in the loss column.

200. Dan Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4142692)

It's Brett Lawrie, not Paul, Chip.

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