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   1. Spahn Insane Posted: July 20, 2010 at 07:21 PM (#3594331)
Moses beat me to my posting this in the newsblog, and pretty much echoed my thoughts on the matter. (Well, on Piniella; I didn't say anything about Hendry or Sandberg.)
   2. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 20, 2010 at 07:31 PM (#3594348)
So, let's hear those thoughts about Hendry and Ryno.

Not that Lou wasn't a good manager, but his time with the Cubs wasn't really that great or anything. So him being the best is a little sad, I guess.
   3. Spahn Insane Posted: July 20, 2010 at 07:48 PM (#3594374)
So, let's hear those thoughts about Hendry and Ryno.

If you can't say nothin' nice...

So him being the best is a little sad, I guess.


Yeah, like I said in my intro, low bar to clear.
   4. McCoy Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:01 PM (#3594395)
Lou did everything you want a manager to do and he did it well. He got the most out of his vets, he worked in the youth, let the players who were performing play, sat those who were not performing down, and was constantly trying to get every win he could out of this team. They didn't win it all but I think there are very very few managers that could have gotten more out of this team.
   5. Dan The Mediocre Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:07 PM (#3594401)
They didn't win it all but I think there are very very few managers that could have gotten more out of this team.


He certainly got more out of them in 2007 than anyone else could have gotten.
   6. Spahn Insane Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:14 PM (#3594411)
He certainly got more out of them in 2007 than anyone else could have gotten.

Lou gets the 2004 Cubs to the playoffs easily. Dusty does not get the 2007 Cubs to the playoffs. Evens out, I guess, sort of.
   7. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:18 PM (#3594415)
I think the 2004 team was better than the 2008 team on paper. I think 2008 is more impressive than 2007 for Lou.

What I'd really like to have seen though was Lou in the 2003 playoffs.
   8. McCoy Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:18 PM (#3594416)
That isn't an even out. With Lou you get one more playoff season and with Dusty you get one less.
   9. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:24 PM (#3594421)
1-1=0.

EDIT: That's a dig at Mr. Blanston.
   10. AndrewJ Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:30 PM (#3594424)
If the '08 Cubs had beaten the Dodgers in the NLDS, they could have very easily taken the Phillies in the NLCS and Tampa Bay in the Series.
   11. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: July 20, 2010 at 08:41 PM (#3594434)
They also could've very easily lost to the Phillies and/or the Rays.
   12. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 20, 2010 at 09:59 PM (#3594507)
I've seen nothing that indicates to me that Sandberg would be a good manager. I'm glad he's paying his dues and getting experience rather than just being anointed, but I've never heard him say anything other than the sorts of tough-guy/things were better in my day stuff that we tend to make fun of. Personality-wise, I'm not seeing the leadership, but I don't know the guy. Maybe he'd be great.

What they need to do is fire Hendry, hire someone who can revamp the team, and let that guy pick the manager.
   13. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 20, 2010 at 10:09 PM (#3594516)
Just to play devil's advocate - nothing about that indicates that he'd be a bad manager. Obviously, that's not the best way to choose a manager.

He seems to have committed to getting the job, and the org has treated him as a manager in training. At this point, I guess I'd be shocked if he isn't named the manager. I don't want another retread, and I don't think a big name is necessarily the answer either. I don't see them contending in the near future - I could be wrong about that. But if he's developed a good rapport with the young talent, it might not be a bad choice.
   14. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 20, 2010 at 10:19 PM (#3594522)
I want Hendry gone, too, but sounds like his job is safe:

Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts thanked Piniella for his service and confirmed that general manager Jim Hendry would remain in his role and be in charge of finding a successor.

"We had some great runs, some great teams," Ricketts said. "It's incumbent upon us to move forward, and as of today, Jim will be leading the search for a new manager for this team for next season.

"Jim is our general manager full stop and will be our general manager going into next year," said Ricketts, adding that president Crane Kenney also will be involved in the search. "We have a good organization"

Hendry said Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg, who's managing at Triple-A Iowa and told the Tribune he would be "delighted" to be considered, will be a candidate.
   15. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 20, 2010 at 10:34 PM (#3594530)
I want Hendry gone, too, but sounds like his job is safe

Well, so much for the Ricketts.

Seriously though, this might not be a bad time to have Hendry as GM, iff it means aggressively pillaging other organizations for young talent, and not going after the first shiny bauble he finds on the FA market. I think it's important at this point to wipe the slate clean and I think the Ricketts are fools for not doing so, but it could turn out okay in the next year or so.
   16. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 20, 2010 at 10:37 PM (#3594531)
And the "we had...some great teams" line pisses me the #### off. One team that won 97 games and then #### its pants in the playoffs. No other team that won 90 games. That's some high standards there, Tom. Have fun checking out the Cardinals asses for the next ten years.
   17. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: July 20, 2010 at 10:44 PM (#3594533)
Anybody think he'll be back in the dugout by th e spring of 2012?

Not sayin' it'll be so, but sure wouldn't be surprised.
   18. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 20, 2010 at 11:22 PM (#3594562)
I want Hendry gone, too, but sounds like his job is safe:

Blargh. If the Cubs wanted to go in a different direction, now would be the time. The new guy should have the opportunity to hire his own manager. The team needs somebody to pilot the ship in a rebuild and a farm system makeover should be priority one and, obviously, the incumbent is not the one to do it.

Of course, the scariest possibility is that Hendry's contract is too much for ownership to eat...
   19. Brian C Posted: July 21, 2010 at 05:00 AM (#3594816)
I don't think any of us have any idea what kind of manager Sandberg would be. We don't know how he'd handle a pitching staff, or how his personality would wear as manager in a major league clubhouse, or whether he'd be overly deferential to veterans on the team when filling out a lineup card, or anything else. And it seems like this would be true even if any of us actually watched him consistently in the minors, since managing a minor league team is presumably a much different job than managing the big club.

But the same would be true of any other first-time head coach in any sport. You're always taking a chance by hiring someone who hasn't done it before. Some organizations are OK with taking risks like that, and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. Under Hendry, of course, the Cubs have gone in the complete opposite direction, for better and worse hiring big names with long track records.

I think the Cubs have put themselves in the position where the public expectation is that Sandberg deserves his shot. At the same time, it would be quite a departure from Hendry's m.o. the last couple times out, so Sandberg has to be considered an underdog in that respect.

But who knows. Hendry ought to consider himself lucky, though, since not a lot of GMs get a chance to hire three managers without a pennant to their names.
   20. Dag Nabbit is a cornucopia of errors Posted: July 21, 2010 at 06:35 AM (#3594848)
Anybody think he'll be back in the dugout by th e spring of 2012?

Really doubt it. He just seems worn out. He's maintained for years that this is the last job he'll ever have. He's already five years older than Sparky Anderson was when he stepped down.

To put in perspective: Lou Piniella was Rookie of the Year 41 years ago. 41 years after John McGraw's rookie season, he stepped down - early in the season, at that.

Managers gone before their age-66 season: John McGraw, Bucky Harris, Sparky Anderson, Walter Alston, Bill McKechnie, Joe McCarthy, Gene Mauch, Dick Williams, Miller Huggins, Al Lopez, Earl Weaver, Ned Hanlon, Whitey Herzog, Frank Selee, Harry Wright . . .and those are just the Hall of Famers.

Manager HIRED by a new team in their age-67 season (which Piniella will be next year) or later: Casey Stengel, Joe Torre, Paul Richards, Jack McKeon, and Felipe Alou. And two of those guys badly embarrassed themselves in their last stints.
   21. McCoy Posted: July 21, 2010 at 08:59 AM (#3594859)
I don't think you can call Dusty Baker a Hendry hire and I don't even know if Lou was a Hendry hire. This hire might actually be the first time Hendry gets a major say in who the manager will be. If it ends up being Ryno I seriously doubt that he would be a Hendry pick.
   22. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 21, 2010 at 11:21 AM (#3594871)
Whenever I bumped into Lou on the road he was always dressed like a slob. Casual pants and some shirt hanging out with an undershirt that looked like he slept in it

Great conversationalist.
   23. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 21, 2010 at 01:15 PM (#3594919)
I don't think you can call Dusty Baker a Hendry hire and I don't even know if Lou was a Hendry hire. This hire might actually be the first time Hendry gets a major say in who the manager will be. If it ends up being Ryno I seriously doubt that he would be a Hendry pick.

Yeah, I completely disagree with this. He without a doubt made the push for these guys. Yes, he caves to public pressure. And he got to fire Don Baylor, too.

Whenever I bumped into Lou on the road he was always dressed like a slob. Casual pants and some shirt hanging out with an undershirt that looked like he slept in it

He would have fit in great on the Brewers team the last couple of years...
   24. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 21, 2010 at 01:26 PM (#3594927)
Would there be any public pressure to hire Sandberg as manager? I kind of doubt it.
   25. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 21, 2010 at 01:35 PM (#3594931)
There already is. Within an hour of the Lou announcement, there were already stories up about Sandberg and he had reporters asking him about the job. It was one of the big topics on sports radio (not the best gauge for this, but still).
   26. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 21, 2010 at 01:39 PM (#3594935)
Some of the other names people are talking about are Joe Torre and Joe Girardi. I see both as huge long shots. The next level is Bob Brenly and Alan Trammell.
   27. Brian C Posted: July 21, 2010 at 03:09 PM (#3595065)
Brenly ... please no.

That's all I really have to say about that.
   28. SteveM. Posted: July 21, 2010 at 04:01 PM (#3595127)
I would lobby for Ryno but I am biased as I named my son after hm. But if the Cubs try to go with a semi-youth movement, I would think he would be the perfect manager. I don't worry so much about the handling of the pitching staff as I expect they would name an experienced pitching coach.
   29. Brian C Posted: July 21, 2010 at 04:24 PM (#3595169)
I don't worry so much about the handling of the pitching staff as I expect they would name an experienced pitching coach.

Larry Rothschild will never die.
   30. Weeks T. Olive Posted: July 21, 2010 at 04:42 PM (#3595186)
I think Sandberg and Trammell have to be the front runners at this point. I'd put it at something like 80% that the next manager will be one of them (and the one that is not will be gone to a coaching or managerial job with another team).

I actually give Trammell higher odds than Sandberg, though, if the decision belongs solely to Hendry - I really think that Hendry has no interest in Sandberg as a manager and that he only offered Sandberg the job at Peoria to placate him, thinking there was no way he'd take it (and then had little choice but to let him move up in the organization because he wasn't really displacing anyone and Hendry would look like an ####### if he didn't).

If Hendry views managerial candidates as he does players, then I would not at all be surprised to see him want to hire Torre. It just depends if Torre wants to retire; I definitely don't see him returning to the Dodgers.
   31. Weeks T. Olive Posted: July 21, 2010 at 04:44 PM (#3595192)
And yes, I fully assume that Rothschild will remain no matter who the next manager is, assuming he wants to stay.
   32. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: July 21, 2010 at 08:07 PM (#3595450)
Would there be any public pressure to hire Sandberg as manager? I kind of doubt it.

I think there is huge public pressure to hire Sandberg. Whether Hendry (or Ricketts) bow to it is an open question.

First, of course, there is the fact that Sandberg was one of the more popular Cubs in an era where WGN was one of the few superstations around and millions of folks were cutting their teeth as Cubs fans. Add that to his HoF speech, full of sanctimony that the public lapped up (and I abhorred) and he became a true folk hero -- even before his number was retired.

That's past history, of course, but at the time the team rightfully told him to get some minor league experience. He can now say that he's done that.

Frankly, I don't really want him as manager but I think it would take some fairly large cohones at this point to tell the '80s version of Mr. Cub that "we appreciate your efforts and sacrifices but are going in a different direction." How would the front office look when Sandberg then leaves the organization forever to manage in Baltimore (or elsewhere)?

Of course, this isn't an endorsement of him -- I have know clue if he'd be any good and refuse to follow the lead of others who insist he's the best candidate. I do think he's the most likely candidate, though.
   33. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 21, 2010 at 08:50 PM (#3595499)
And yes, I fully assume that Rothschild will remain no matter who the next manager is, assuming he wants to stay.


This along with Jaramillo likely staying is good news.
   34. McCoy Posted: July 21, 2010 at 09:10 PM (#3595529)
He without a doubt made the push for these guys

You really think Hendry made a push for Baker? I'm betting pretty heavily that he was an Andy pick. I'm also betting pretty heavily that Lou was a corporate pick. I'd say ever since Dallas Green left the GM position the Cubs/Tribune has made the GM position a pretty weak position within their organization. It was so weak that at one point Andy just said "screw the pretense I'll just tack the title onto my door". I seriously doubt Hendry was the one pushing for Dusty and it looked like for the first couple years of Dusty's tenure that Hendry's hands were tied when it came to player acquisitions.
   35. McCoy Posted: July 21, 2010 at 09:19 PM (#3595542)
I don't think Hendry would want Ryno as his manager because it would jeopardize Hendry's employment status.

Right now Hendry has a year to do something before he is on the extreme hot seat. If they win next year he buys himself the last year of his contract. If he wins in the last year of his contract then in all likelihood he gets a contract extension or at the very least has a good chance of getting another GM job rather quickly. Hiring Ryne jeopardizes that for a few reasons. First if Ryne tanks and takes the team with him then Hendry it gone by the end of next year. Secondly because Ryno is a HoF'er, a big legend in town, and a bit unknown in his tendencies he is a loose cannon at the major league level. Will he take the bullet for the front office like a good little soldier or will he try to protect his legacy by calling out those above him or even those below him?

Unfortunately for us Hendry is in a win now mode. He has to be because that is the only way he can stay employed and has any chance of getting an extension. This approach is also why I think is also partly the reason why he isn't being an active trader. He can't trade Carlos Silva because a player that might be good three years from now or even two years from now is useless to Hendry who needs to win today and tomorrow and the Cubs with their budget constraints are unlikely to make big moves this offseason.
   36. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 22, 2010 at 03:40 AM (#3595891)
I think you're giving Hendry way too much credit McCoy. I fully believe both Baker and Piniella were his choices. He's a scout at heart, and believes in goofiness like the veteran manager guiding the team. If Hendry had his hands tied the first couple of years, maybe we should go back to that and have less Maddux for Izturis, "I decided I like guys who can catch the ball", and "we need more balance so I signed Aaron ####### Miles." I have no doubt that Baker was making suggestions as was Piniella, but if Hendry is going to do whatever the dumbass manager he hires wants, then I want him gone now.
   37. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 22, 2010 at 12:35 PM (#3596071)
It wasn't so much that his hands were tied in those moves, it's that he did what Dusty wanted *and* agreed with Dusty. And I don't think the GM position is that weak - look how much salary Hendry has taken on in his tenure. They opened the purse strings, and while he was on a tighter budget during the sale, I can't think of a move that he wanted to make that was shot down or overruled.
   38. McCoy Posted: July 22, 2010 at 01:47 PM (#3596124)
I don't think Hendry agreed with Dusty and I think Dusty was given a lot of power in putting together his team. Which is why he got Goodwins and Neifi's on his team. I think Andy was for the most part pulling the strings from up high. The Tribune opened up the purse strings at the end when they thought they were going to be selling the team and not having to pay the salaries. If you look a bunch of those contracts had really cheap first year or two in them before jumping up in pay. The Tribune didn't really open up the purse strings until the 2007 offseason because they thought they would sell the team by the end of the season and because it was becoming a bit of a fad to write about all the no shows at Wrigley the year before.
   39. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 22, 2010 at 06:21 PM (#3596420)
Cubs salary, and rank in MLB, by year

1998: $49mil, 10th
1999: $55mil, 10th
2000: $62mil, 12th
2001: $65mil, 15th
2002: $76mil, 12th
2003: $80mil, 11th
2004: $91mil, 7th
2005: $87mil, 9th
2006: $94mil, 7th
2007: $100mil, 8th
2008: $118mil, 8th
2009: $135mil, 3rd.

Kept posting those, just cause I found it interesting. They seemed to hover in about the same place, increasing at about the same rate as the entire league. The previous 2 offseasons were huge jumps. I probably thought of them spending more money with Hendry because of the jump from 03 to 04.

Anyway, you really have no way of knowing who was pushing the buttons between Andy and Jim. Unless you have something to back up your opinions, why should we doubt that Hendry was making the moves? In fact, Jim usually got credit for some of the moves that happened before he was officially GM.
   40. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 22, 2010 at 06:23 PM (#3596422)
But go back and pull quotes from Hendry during the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He sure sounded like he was on the same page as Dusty. Doesn't matter who Dusty wanted, it was up to Jim to put them on the roster. If it were up to Dusty, they wouldn't have waived Lenny Harris during the 03 season. The differences seemed to become more obvious later, but I don't see why that's a reason to say Andy was the puppetmaster.
   41. Brian C Posted: July 22, 2010 at 08:09 PM (#3596539)
You know, all I want from the new manager is to not say, "Oh man, not this crap again." The main appeal with Sandberg for me is that I don't know what he'll be like, which will actually allow me to have some hope. Don't get me wrong, Piniella has turned out OK but his hire was extremely uninspiring, as was Dusty's before him, as was Baylor's before him, etc. I just want a clean slate, to be able to think that things might just turn out for the best.

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