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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Tuesday, August 31, 2004

1933 Election Results - It’s Unanimous for “Barney,” while “Buck” is Also a First Year Inductee!

As expected, pitching legend Walter Johnson chugged into the Hall Of Merit in his first year of eligibility. Recording the highest point total of any inductee so far (1,296), the “Big Train” was the #1 choice for all 54 voters. He follows in the footsteps of previous unanimous selections Cy Young and Honus Wagner.

In second place was Brooklyn Robins star Zack Wheat. The leftfielder won the second spot for HoM immortality easily in also his first year of eligibility with 997 pts and was left off only one ballot.

“Bottle bat” great Heinie Groh, another newbie, was a fairly strong presence in third place and outpointed #4 returnee Lip Pike (who moved up one spot) by 130 pts.

Other carry over candidates in the top ten were George Van Haltren (down 2 spots), Jake Beckley, Clark Griffith (down 3), Hughie Jennings (down 1), Rube Waddell (down 1) and Mickey Welch (up 1).

RK   LY  Player             PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1  n/e  Walter Johnson    1296   54  54                                          
 2  n/e  Zack Wheat         997   53     25 11  3  2  1  1  3  4     1     1  1   
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3  n/e  Heinie Groh        608   46         6  7  1  4  6  5  5  2     4     2  4
 4    5  Lip Pike           478   32      5  4  4  1  5  2  1  3        3  2     2
 5    3  George Van Haltren 467   34         7  5  2  1  4  2  2  1  7  1     1  1
 6    6  Jake Beckley       467   32      2  2  9  3  1  1  3  3  5  1  1        1
 7    4  Clark Griffith     463   36      1  2  4  5  2  3  2  2  4  2  1  6  1  1
 8    7  Hughie Jennings    458   32      6     3  2  5  1  1  3  1  5  1  1  3   
 9    8  Rube Waddell       411   31      1  2     5  5  4  3     1  7        3   
10   11  Mickey Welch       382   25      7  3     3  1  1  2  1  1     1     2  3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   12  Cupid Childs       366   31      1  1     3  4  1  3  4  3  1  2  1  5  2
12    9  Hugh Duffy         357   28      2     2  2  1  5  2  2  5  1  2  1  1  2
13   10  Roger Bresnahan    338   29         1     3  1  2  4  4  3  3  4  2  2   
14   14  Pete Browning      335   24         6  4  3  1  1        4     2     2  1
15   13  Jimmy Ryan         324   25         2  2  3  3  2  4     2  2  1  2  2   
16   16  Jose Mendez        279   24         1     3     2  4  2  1  2  7  1  1   
17   15  Tommy Leach        276   25         1     2  3  1  3  1  2  2  1  4  3  2
18   17  Bill Monroe        228   21         1     1  1  2  1  3  2  2  2  1  4  1
19   18  Charley Jones      214   17      1     2  1  1  3     2     2  2  1  2   
20   20  Larry Doyle        210   19      1  1  2  1     1     1        2  7  1  2
21   19  Spotswood Poles    188   18            2        2  1     2  3  1  4  2  1
22   22  Harry Hooper       164   13         1  1  1  3        2  1  1     2  1   
23   21  Bobby Veach        137   14               1  1  1        1  1  4  1  3  1
24   26  Addie Joss         117   10            1     1  1  1  1  2  1     1     1
25   29  Ed Cicotte         110    9         1     1  1  2              3        1
26   23  Frank Chance       107   11            1     1  1           2     2  1  3
27  n/e  Urban Shocker      100   10                        3  1  2        1  1  2
28   25  John McGraw         97    7      1        2  1        1           1  1   
29   32  Fielder Jones       95    7      1        1  1        1  1  1     1      
30   28  Gavy Cravath        91    8                  1  1  2  1     1     1     1
31   27  Ed Williamson       89    9                  1  1     1  1     1  1  2  1
32   24  George J. Burns     77    9                        1     1     3  1     3
33   31  Vic Willis          74    9                     1     1  1           1  5
34   30  Dobie Moore         65    8                              1  1  2  1     3
35   33  Lave Cross          58    5         1        1                 1  2      
36   36  Ed Konetchy         42    4                  1        1           1  1   
37   35  Mike Griffin        40    4               1                 1     1     1
38   34  Tommy Bond          37    4                           1     1     1  1   
39   37  Wilbur Cooper       36    3               1                 2            
40   39  Mike Tiernan        33    4                        1              1     2
41  n/e  Ray Schalk          27    3                              1     1     1   
42   40  Fred Dunlap         23    2                        1        1            
43   38  Jim McCormick       20    2                     1                       1
44   47T Tony Mullane        17    2                              1              1
45T  49  Donie Bush          17    1            1                                 
45T  45T Silver King         17    1            1                                 
47   41  Del Pratt           16    2                                    1     1   
48   54T Duke Farrell        15    1                  1                           
49T n/e  Jack Fournier       13    2                                          1  1
49T  42  Herman Long         13    2                                          1  1
51   45T Tom York            13    1                        1                     
52  n/e  John Donaldson      12    1                           1                  
53T  50  Sam Leever          11    1                              1               
53T  43T Ross Youngs         11    1                              1               
55   47T Bruce Petway         8    1                                       1      
56T  51T Jake Daubert         6    1                                             1
56T  51T Bobby Mathews        6    1                                             1
56T  43T Joe Tinker           6    1                                             1
Dropped Out: Cy Seymour(53), Jim Whitney(54T).

 

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 06:44 PM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:00 PM (#829162)
Moving this to the hot topics.... (and sticking my tongue out at Dimino)
   2. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:03 PM (#829168)
Moving this to the hot topics.... (and sticking my tongue out at Dimino)

LOL
   3. PhillyBooster Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:10 PM (#829180)
Prediction: Heinie Groh has a bad case of "new car smell". At least one player with fewer points than he has in 1933 will be inducted first.
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:19 PM (#829197)
Prediction: Heinie Groh has a bad case of "new car smell". At least one player with fewer points than he has in 1933 will be inducted first.

I think you're wrong, Matt, for three reasons.

1) Third basemen always start off slow because the electorate, IMO, underrates hot corner guys from this time.

2) There was a few voters who felt they were possibly underrating him and thought he might be moving up for the next election.

3) He's my new pet. :-)
   5. Guapo Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:20 PM (#829201)
I don't pay much attention to how the ballot is weighted (helps prevent the temptation of strategic voting) but am I right in assuming that the 1934 flood is going to markedly change the landscape of the carryovers?

With six new guys who will dominate most people's top six, I'm assuming those guys whose votes concentrate around 10-15 on this ballot will lose votes and take a tumble next year.

If I'm right, Clark Griffith (15 votes between 10-15) and Cupid Childs (14 votes between 10-15) are in trouble.
   6. Guapo Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:23 PM (#829206)
Oops. Forgot that we'll also be losing Johnson and Wheat from the ballot next year. I'm an idiot, but you get the idea.
   7. DavidFoss Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:30 PM (#829222)
If I'm right, Clark Griffith (15 votes between 10-15) and Cupid Childs (14 votes between 10-15) are in trouble.

Well, its just short term trouble. Sure, Pike and Welch may get a temporary relative bump but by the time anyone in the backlog nears election, those 16-17th ballot positions will be 11-12 again. Griffith & Childs will be back... and when they do they'll have momentum. :-)

The backlog will look quite different when they returns. Coveleski, Sisler, Carey & Roush will have joined them.
   8. PhillyBooster Posted: August 31, 2004 at 08:34 PM (#829232)
Looks like the big losers will Lip Pike, who is thriving on the strength of high numbers of Top 4 votes and Larry Doyle, was has 12 of his 19 votes in the 12-15 range.

Most likely to survive minimally-scathed is Jake Beckley (only 3 votes 11th or lower).

Van Haltren and Mendez are both hoping that Covaleski and Ben Taylor don't make too many ballots.
   9. Chris Cobb Posted: August 31, 2004 at 09:00 PM (#829278)
I'd agree with Phillybooster on Beckley being well-positioned to hold down the top-of-the-backlog position in 1934. He'll be 8th, but it'll be a strong 8th :-) . Though the key will be Van Haltren's 7 11th-place votes. If those voters keep VH on the ballot, he'll probably edge out Beckley.

Most likely order in 1934:

Cobb
Collins
Speaker
Lloyd
Williams
Torriente
Groh
Beckley
Van Haltren
Pike
   10. Dag is a salt water fish in fresh water world Posted: August 31, 2004 at 09:48 PM (#829379)
Is it just me or did the primer-version of this thread disapper?
   11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 09:57 PM (#829393)
It wasn't you, Chris. It appears some jackass moved back it into this section. I moved it back where it belongs.
   12. The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: August 31, 2004 at 10:14 PM (#829426)
Wouldn't it be easier in the future if we posted the same thread to both Primer and HOM, instead of having 2 different versions?
   13. DavidFoss Posted: August 31, 2004 at 10:19 PM (#829437)
Minor nitpick -- The primer version has a link to the Santop election results by mistake.

Should get the word out, though. This is a good time to join. Just play John Murphy Lotto for three years while you sort out the lower 2/3 of your ballot.
   14. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 10:24 PM (#829450)
Wouldn't it be easier in the future if we posted the same thread to both Primer and HOM, instead of having 2 different versions?

Well, the Primer version is a little different from the Hall of Merit version and is aimed at drawing new voters for our project.

BTW, if it was you that moved it back into this section, Eric, no offense meant by the jackass crack. :-) Obviously, whoever moved it into the HoM section probably thought I screwed up and placed it in the wrong section.
   15. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 10:31 PM (#829459)
Minor nitpick -- The primer version has a link to the Santop election results by mistake.

Oops! That's a major screwup as far as I'm concerned. Thanks, David!

Should get the word out, though. This is a good time to join. Just play John Murphy Lotto for three years while you sort out the lower 2/3 of your ballot.

If only I could make a few buck out of this... :-)
   16. The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: August 31, 2004 at 10:46 PM (#829473)
'Twasn't me, John.
   17. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 31, 2004 at 10:58 PM (#829489)
'Twasn't me, John.

Eric, is there anyway of finding out who it could be? It happened again, except now the thread was Closed.
   18. The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: August 31, 2004 at 11:52 PM (#829774)
John, if there is a way of finding out, I don't know what it is. Sean, Jim, or Dan S. may, as admins, have access to different info than I do. They may be able to tell.

I'm sure there's no malice intended. It's probably someone who doesn't pay attention to the HOM and thought the thread was accidentally double-posted.
   19. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 01, 2004 at 12:29 AM (#829984)
I'm sure there's no malice intended. It's probably someone who doesn't pay attention to the HOM and thought the thread was accidentally double-posted.

You're probably right, Eric, but it's starting to get annoying. From now on, I'll make sure to state that it's the Primer version.

Of course, if it is Dan, Sean or Jim, then I'm screwed. :-)
   20. PhillyBooster Posted: September 01, 2004 at 02:01 PM (#830901)
By my calculations, every year from 1881 until 1908 (1911 after the next election) has at least 20 HoMers except for 1897, which has a mere 18 (16 National Leaguers and 2 Negro Leaguers). The election of any two of top contenders Beckley, van Haltren, Jennings, Griffith, or Duffy would raise the number to 20.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: September 01, 2004 at 03:07 PM (#830970)
Philly, it depends on your counting system, perhaps.
I have 23 appearing in 1897. I don't count Ewing 1 G or Thompson 3 G. But I do count Sheckard 13 G, Connor 22 G, and Wagner 61 G.

My listing has (in order of election):
Anson CHI, Connor STL, Rusie NY, Hamilton BOS, Delahanty PHI, Nichols BOS, Burkett CLE, McPhee CIN, Davis NY, Dahlen CHI, Young CLE, Clarke LOU, Keeler BAL, Kelley BAL, Collins BOS, Lajoie PHI, Wagner LOU, HR Johnson PAG FEN GIA, Grant CUB GIA, Wallace CLE, Sheckard BKN (Ewing CIN 1-132) (Thompson PHI 3-132)
   22. PhillyBooster Posted: September 01, 2004 at 04:07 PM (#831057)
Yes, I only count players who appeared in half of his team's games as "semi-regular" players. 23 minus the five you mentioned as playing fewer than about 75 games (Wagner, Connor, Sheckard, Thompson, and Ewing) leaves 18 players.
   23. Jim Sp Posted: September 01, 2004 at 07:09 PM (#831380)
This is a little off topic, but a fun game to play. I tried to figure out who the greatest living retired player was, since Brouthers retired in 1896.

Greatest Living Retired (honorary chair at the HoM inductions):
Brouthers 1896-1907
Nichols   1907-1911
Young     1911-1917
Wagner    1918-1927
Johnson   1928-1928
Cobb      1929-1935
Ruth      1936-1948
Cobb      1949-1961
Williams  1962-1973
Mays      1974-present

currently my line of succession is Aaron, Musial, Robinson, Morgan.

after that I think my list overrates catchers but some good candidates are Bench, Schmidt, Fisk, Carter, Ripken, Seaver, Brett, and Berra.

I considered Charleston and Gibson, but couldn't quite convince myself that they were better than the competition...it's a tough list to make. Even the Big Train just sneaks in for a year.
   24. Jim Sp Posted: September 01, 2004 at 07:09 PM (#831385)
Oops wrong thread...
   25. PhillyBooster Posted: September 02, 2004 at 01:38 PM (#833028)
While Walter Johnson might have been called "Barney" in the 1920s, I bet if he had pitched half a century later his nickname would have been "Wojo".

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