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Tuesday, November 23, 2004

1939 Election Results: Faber and Carey Are Welcomed By the Hall of Merit!

1939 goes down in HoM history as the election with the least consensus for the winning candidates. Newly eligible White Sox hurling star Red Faber was tops among the 53 voters with only 46.31% of the vote. Right on his heels (45.6% of the vote), in his fifth year of eligibility, was Pittsburgh outfield great Max Carey.

Lip Pike’s long electoral journey is highlighted this “year” by earning the most “elect me” votes (285) and the most #1 votes (9) of any other player. Will he finally make it in his 43rd “year” as a candidate in 1940?

Rounding out the top ten were returnees Joe Sewell (his first time on the ballot), Hughie Jennings, Eppa Rixey (another newbie), Clark Griffith, George SislerJake Beckley and Rube Waddell.

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1  n/e  Red Faber                589   44   1  5  4  3  4  1  1  1  3  4  5  3  4  2  3
 2    3  Max Carey                580   37   8  2  1  6     2  3  3  4     2     2  3  1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    4  Lip Pike                 522   29   9  3  4  3  2     2  1     1  1     1     2
 4  n/e  Joe Sewell               507   36   3  1  5  3  1  5  2  2  2  2  2  1  4  1  2
 5    5  Hughie Jennings          502   28   8  4  3  4  1        1  1  1  1  2  2      
 6  n/e  Eppa Rixey               481   36   2  2  1  2  8  4  1  1  1  1     3  4  2  4
 7    7  Clark Griffith           467   34   3  3  2     2  4  2  3  2  1  2  4  1  2  3
 8    8  George Sisler            438   30   2  3  5  2  1  2  1  2  3  1  1  3     3  1
 9    6  Jake Beckley             432   28   1  4  4  2  2  4  1  2  1  4  1           2
10    9  Rube Waddell             392   30   2  1     2  1  5  3  2  2  3  1  2  3  1  2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   12  George Van Haltren       388   23   3  6  2     3     3  1        1  1     2  1
12   11  Cupid Childs             368   27   1  2  1  2  4  3  1  1  1  2  3  2  1  2  1
13   16  Tommy Leach              340   27         1  3     6  1  3  4  2  1  2  2  2   
14   10  Mickey Welch             338   19   5  5     1     1  1  1  1  1     1        2
15   13  Pete Browning            329   21   1  3  3  3  3  1        1  1  2  2     1   
16   14  Hugh Duffy               328   24   1  1  3  2  3     2  1  2  2  3     2     2
17   17  Edd Roush                297   23            2  3  1  3  4  3  4  1  1     1   
18   15  Cannonball Dick Redding  280   23      1     1     1  4  4  4  1  3     2     2
19   18  Roger Bresnahan          241   22         1  1  2     2  2  1  1  5     1  3  3
20   19  José Méndez              236   21         2  1  2        1  3  1  2  4  1  3  1
21   21  Charley Jones            210   13   2     4     2  1  1        1  1     1      
22   23  Wally Schang             204   16   1  1           1  2  3     3  1  2     2   
23   22  Larry Doyle              192   15      1  2  2  1     2           1  1  3     2
24   20  Jimmy Ryan               175   14         1  1  2     2  1  1  2     1  3      
25   24  Bill Monroe              152   14      1     1     1     1  1     2  2  1  2  2
26   26  Bobby Veach              148   12      1        2  1     1  2     1  1  2     1
27   25  Harry Hooper             134   12         1  1     1  1  1  1        2     3  1
28   29  George J. Burns          121   10               1  1     2  3  1     1  1      
29   31T Vic Willis               108   11                  1  1     1     3     3  1  1
30   27  Carl Mays                 91    9               1     1        2     3        2
31   45  Dobie Moore               88   10            1                 2     1     4  2
32   28  John McGraw               86    6         1  1  1        1  1     1            
33   36  Fielder Jones             81    7               1     2        1     2  1      
34   30  Ben Taylor                80    6         1        1  2  1                    1
35   35  Frank Chance              71    6      1           1     1                 2  1
36   33  Urban Shocker             65    7                        1     1  1  2     1  1
37T  31T Ed Cicotte                62    7            1                       1  2  2  1
37T n/e  Rabbit Maranville         62    7                           1  2        1  2  1
39   38  Gavy Cravath              56    5                  1  1  1              1     1
40   40  Wilbur Cooper             54    5            1                 1  1  1     1   
41   37  Spotswood Poles           52    4         1  1                    1        1   
42   34  Addie Joss                49    5                        1     1  1     1  1   
43   39  Ed Williamson             49    4                     2     1        1         
44   41  Dave Bancroft             35    4                              2           1  1
45   42  Ed Konetchy               34    3                  1        1              1   
46  n/e  Jack Quinn                27    3                                 1  1  1      
47T  49  Tommy Bond                23    1      1                                       
47T  44  Lave Cross                23    1      1                                       
49   43  Ray Schalk                22    2                           1     1            
50   52T Jack Fournier             21    2                     1                    1   
51T  46T Donie Bush                15    1                  1                           
51T  46T Fred Dunlap               15    1                  1                           
53   50T Mike Tiernan              14    2                                       1     1
54T  52T Sam Leever                14    1                     1                        
54T  52T Tom York                  14    1                     1                        
56T  55  Jim McCormick             13    1                        1                     
56T  48  Del Pratt                 13    1                        1                     
58   58T Mike Griffin              12    2                                             2
59   56  Ross Youngs               11    1                              1               
60   50T Tony Mullane               8    1                                       1      
Dropped Out: Jake Daubert(60T), Herman Long(57), Oliver Marcelle(58T), 
Bruce Petway(60T), Eddie Rommel(60T), Jim Whitney(60T).

 

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 23, 2004 at 02:31 AM | 37 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:21 AM (#978468)
Hey, we got another centerfielder!

Oh, well. Carey was a damn good player who kicked major butt as a basestealer and fielder. His teams were lucky to have him for all of those years.

I'm glad Faber made it. Another pitcher for the HoM!
   2. sunnyday2 Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:32 AM (#978479)
I guess I would have reserved a hearty "oh well" for Faber, not Carey.

I was debating whether to put Carey into my PHoM this year or Zack Wheat and true to my inconoclastic reputation around here, I chose Carey. (And I chose Coveleski over Mendez as my pitcher, not that I always take a pitcher and a position player, but this year it was how I decided to break down the field into bite-sized pieces.)

Meanwhile, Faber we hardly knew ye. Now I will never figure out how good the guy really was. I don't object to him, I am just massively uncertain. Aside from Pud Galvin (just my opinion of course) is he the weakest pitcher ever elected?--and again that is not to say he is not deserving, somebody has to be the weakest.

But I am shocked, when everybody was talking about 6 or 7 contenders I assumed they meant #s 2-3-4-5-7-8-9 (hey, another song!). I am fairly sure that if Faber becomes eligible any other time between 1898 and 1950, he doesn't go in on the first ballot and possibly never. "Oh well." Again, I don't object...in fact, I enjoy being shocked now and then. But c'mon, how good was he, really? Now I'll never know!
   3. andrew siegel Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:42 AM (#978484)
Well, on the one hand, I had Faber 13th and Carey 16th. On the other hand, I can't say with any great confidence that they weren't the top 2 on the ballot. Whoever won this year was going to rank near the bottom of the final HoM. Ho-hum. Time to move on.
   4. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:47 AM (#978488)
Somebody has to be at the bottom of the Hall of Merit. years like this are the ones where we draw the lines who who should and shouldnt' get in. neither made my personal hall of merit, but Faber was really really close.

At least we won't have to deal with none of Coveleski's contemporaries not getting in when he did, because of a supposedly "weak" electorate in 1938.

Any predictions for next year? I say Rogan and Pike with Rogan and Faber in line to make my PHOM.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:52 AM (#978495)
This review looked great until I realized that I was shortchanging Sewell 10 pts from Ballot 9 on. Dammit.

Well, what the hell, I'll run it anyway. It's still right in the general trend of things, just don't get too caught up whether Joe Blow was exactly 6th or 7th, where Sewell spent a lot of his time.
It's about 90 pct accurate, and close to 100 with the top 4-5 spots.

These figures are based on a review of 14 key players, so a few of the early numbers near the bottom 10 may be slightly off. All of the top figures should be right, however.

RED FABER: Grabbed the top spot for the first time at Ballot 21, and never relinquished the lead. First copped an elect-me spot at No. 2 from Ballots 8-11, but settled mostly for 4th for the next nine tallies before taking over the election.

MAX CAREY: The comeback kid! Not even in the top 10 through any of the first 16 Ballots, then 16 more ballots drifting mostly at 9th or 10th and never higher than 8th. Never reached elect-me status until a No. 2 at Ballot 47, but once there, he never let go. Had grabbed 6th at Ballot 33 and mostly stayed there through 40 ballots. Then 5th for four ballots, and a 3rd and 4th before grabbing a brass ring.

LIP PIKE: Still in elect-me status thru ballot 43 and again through 46, but he just couldn't stop Carey and settled for bronze the rest of the way. Danced mostly around 4th to 6th for first 11 ballots, then rocketed into 1st for four straight tallies. Was 3rd thru 7th (and usually 5th) for each of the next 21 ballots except one elect-me 2nd in Ballot 21 - the same one where Faber grabbed his first lead. Lip then hit 2nd in six of the next seven Ballots, and briefly again later.

JOE SEWELL: Got hot midway thru the contest, grabbing 2nd or 3rd a dozen straight times beginning with Ballot 22. Still an elect-me 2nd at Ballot 36, but steadily slipped as was 6th or 7th from Ballot 41 to 51 before a modest late rally. Mostly 5th, 6th, or 7th in the first 21 ballots, only grabbed one 2nd in that span.

HUGHIE JENNINGS: Looked like he had no shot through 35 ballots, ranking just 10th to that point. Then went to 9th, 7th, 6th, 5th, and 3rd in consecutive ballots, an amazing run. Even grabbed an elect-me No. 2 in Ballots 44 and 45, but immediately slipped to 5th - his 4th-place finish was one of only two times at that slot in the last 8 ballots. Hughie was out of the top 10 thru 11 of the first ballots, then danced between 5th and 9th for 21 straight ballots (except one 3rd) before the amazing rally.

EPPA RIXEY: Hit his stride with his first elect-me 2nd at Ballot 14, first of seven straight tallies at either No. 1 or No. 2. Faber and Rixey shared the 1-2 slots at Ballots 20 and 22. Then came nine straight 4ths, five No. 2s in six years, and then a dozen years at 3rd or 4th. Slipped two slots in the last two ballots.

CLARK GRIFFITH: Never once did he do better than a share for 5th, yet Ol' Clark managed to nab a top 10 slot 45 times, including each of the last 26. Mostly 9th and 10th in the first half of the balloting, then mostly 7th and 8th, Griffith surged late but eventually settled for that 7th.

GEORGE SISLER: Very similar to Griffith. High point was a 5th after 3 ballots, yet never out of the top 10 after Ballot 25. Placed 8th or 9th thru each of the last 17 ballots, with 14 of 15 9ths until the last ballot lifted him to 8th.

JAKE BECKLEY: A long hard fall for Eagle Eye, the Ballot Leader from No. 2 thru No. 11 and 16-17. Still at No. 2 in Ballots 25-28, but then came a steady slide with no returns to elect-me status. Out of the top 3 after Ballot 35, out of the top 5 after Ballot 38, and out of Top 7 after Ballot 42. Had seven straight No. 8s before last ballot.

RUBE WADDELL: A strange ballot pattern to match a strange career: While others were jumping all around the rankings, Rube was exactly 10th following each of the final 17 ballots. That came after a 17-ballot stretch out of the rankings altogether. The first 19 ballots included sporadic 8ths, 9ths, 10ths, and ballot absences.

GEORGE VAN HALTREN: Less of a factor than some might have figured. Grabbed a bottom three slot in five of the first nine ballots, finally reappeared with a 9th and 10th in Ballots 35-36. Kept getting within a whisker of Waddell, but never caught him.

CUPID CHILDS: More of an early factor than some might have figured. Cupid was a top-4 guy thru each of the first six ballots, then grabbed 7th or 8th for a remarkable 21 straight ballots. Then came a 10th, and a disappearance for good.

MICKEY WELCH: Another huge dropoff player. Rated 2nd after Ballots 2 through 8, soon settled into mostly 7ths and 8ths, then jumped to 5th and 4th on Ballots 26-30. Was this to be the year? Nope. Next came a steady slide out of the top 10 within five more ballots, never to return.
   6. PhillyBooster Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:55 AM (#978499)
Aside from Pud Galvin (just my opinion of course) is he the weakest pitcher ever elected?

I've got him over Coveleski. Probably Keefe, too. Maybe Spalding. Take your pick on Caruthers.

Pitchers are hard to judge, both against each other and against other positions. There are far too many different potential career paths.

Was Pud Galvin better than Addie Joss? The answer is that everyone will think that was probably better than the other by a lot, but won't agree on which one.
   7. sunnyday2 Posted: November 23, 2004 at 04:03 AM (#978509)
As close as it was and as much of a horse race it was to those tabulating (thanks Howie, I wasn't), the holdovers all came out pretty square. I mean, other than Beckley and Welch dropping.

I think that bodes well for Lipman. With all those extra ballots, Sewell is a real threat, but Lip and Hughie have just as much potential for new (more) elect-me votes.

Discussion desparately needed on Rogan! Right now I have him #4. That is surely conservative, but until I get a better handle on him. Was he really the second coming of Bob Caruthers (and then hung on for 10 years)?
   8. sunnyday2 Posted: November 23, 2004 at 04:13 AM (#978518)
And let me add that it is really a wonderful thing that this long list of players up there who will never ever get elected to anything, nevertheless get to have their names in print and to be discussed and remembered.
   9. DavidFoss Posted: November 23, 2004 at 04:18 AM (#978524)
Although neither was on my ballot, congrats to Red and Max: heroes of the 1917 and 1925 World Series.
   10. Sean Gilman Posted: November 23, 2004 at 06:00 AM (#978612)
Can't say I'm not disappointed as one of Pike's longest-tenured and biggest supporters. I really thought this was gonna be his year.
Instead, we got numbers 28 and 21 from my ballot. I think it's the first time ever neither electee made my ballot.

Ah well, next year: Pick Lip!
   11. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 23, 2004 at 08:33 AM (#978870)
I second sunnyday2's sentiment. Two years ago I'd never heard of Lip Pike or Dickey Pearce or Home Run Johnson let alone Mike Tiernan or Fred Dunlap. It's great that they're being recognized 100 years after their playing careers. It's also great that there's so little groupthink and well researched and reasoned debate here when the choices are non-obvious (Cobb, Speaker). Carey or Van Haltren? Waddell or Coveleski or Faber? All of the above? None of the above? Absolutely fascinating! Also, I've never actually met anyone named "Urban". Does that name still exist?
   12. TomH Posted: November 23, 2004 at 01:17 PM (#978999)
Yes, hurrah for us. Great discussion, reasonable decisions, even if they weren't the ones I wanted. No comarison to the Happy Jack Chesbro days.
   13. PhillyBooster Posted: November 23, 2004 at 03:04 PM (#979034)
Also, I've never actually met anyone named "Urban". Does that name still exist?

Both Urban Shocker and Urban "Red" Faber were born in the 1890s. The Social Security data base only goes back to 1900, so we can't get an exact analysis. In the 1900s, however, "Urban" was the 621st most popular male name, tied with Burl, Hardy, Ignatius, Merlin, Ole, Parker, and Sheldon.

In the 1910s, it had dropped to 794, tied with Adolfo, Clovis, Dorothy (also third most popular girl name), Hermon, Lafayette, Leander, McKinley, Reynolds, Shelton, Verner, and Vernie.

In the 1920s, it climbed up to 723, tied with Carter, Elzie, and Murphy.

In the 1930s, however, it fell out of the top 1000, never to return.


Today, 621 is "Jett", 723 is "Aditya" and 794 is "Cornelius". Which shows, primarily, that I don't get out much.

Of the names listed above, in 2003 "Carter" leads the way at 102. Adolfo is next at 443. Sheldon was still hovering in the same place (773). The rest are all out of the Top 1000. Oddly, not even "Herman" (spelled with an A) is in the Top 1000 -- I guess that will soon be seen as an old-person's name.

On the other hand, neither of my daughter's names made the girl's Top 1000, while both "Destiny" and three different mispellings of Destiny (Destinee, Destiney, and Destini) all did. So, who knows. Maybe there are a bunch of Urbans (or Suburbans, or -- more recently -- Exurbans) running around under the radar.
   14. DavidFoss Posted: November 23, 2004 at 04:35 PM (#979205)
There were 8 popes named Urban which always makes a comeback possible. There was an Urbano Lugo from Venezuela who played in the late 1980s.
   15. OCF Posted: November 23, 2004 at 05:44 PM (#979314)
The average consensus score of -8.5 demolished the old record of -4.5 set in 1938. The highest possible consensus score (that is, the score of someone who voted for exactly the eventual top 15, in order) was +8. The higest individual score, a whopping +1, belonged to Howie Menckel. My own -2 was in the top 10. The lowest score, a -21, belonged to Guapo. Although yest's score was above average at the moment he posted his ballot, it faded at the end to a slighltly below average -10.

The most disagreed-about candidates were Pike and Jennings, with Welch also showing high disagreement for his overall placement. Faber, Sewell, Rixie, and Leach showed low disagreement for their placements.

The high disagreement for Pike and Jennings comes from their high numbers of "elect me" votes within a low number of overall votes. To the extent that I can predict things, I would predict that neither one will be elected in 1940, because they have few places to go to increase their point totals. Sewell, Rixie, and Griffith are better positioned to move up.
   16. Chris Cobb Posted: November 23, 2004 at 05:59 PM (#979353)
I would predict that neither one will be elected in 1940, because they have few places to go to increase their point totals. Sewell, Rixie, and Griffith are better positioned to move up.

True, but it's also the case that they are less likely to move down significantly in a year when the arrival of many ballot-worthy but not shoo-in candidates may further fragment the ballot.
   17. Howie Menckel Posted: November 23, 2004 at 09:34 PM (#979919)
That's me, Mr. Consensus!
I had Faber at No. 6 and Carey at No. 15.
And my two 'elect-me's were Griffith and Welch.
   18. Daryn Posted: November 23, 2004 at 10:20 PM (#979997)
Faber, Sewell and Childs got votes in every position, including off ballot. Childs got exactly 1 vote in 7 of the 15 ballot positions.
   19. Daryn Posted: November 23, 2004 at 10:24 PM (#980004)
An amazing 9 players all got their most votes in the 6th position. (Sewell, Griffith, Beckley, Waddell, Leach, Cravath, Konetchy, Bush and Dunlap).
   20. Guapo Posted: November 23, 2004 at 10:26 PM (#980009)
The lowest score, a -21, belonged to Guapo.

How could you all be so wrong? C'mon guys, pull it together next year.
   21. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: November 23, 2004 at 10:45 PM (#980052)
I won't sit on the loss of my crown as voter with the highest consensus score for long. I am out to get you Howie!
   22. OCF Posted: November 23, 2004 at 11:02 PM (#980086)
jschmeagol, you were the only other positive score at +0.04. Adam Schafer also rounded to 0 from about -.2. It was hard to be in agreement, becuase what would you be agreeing with, anyway?
   23. Paul Wendt Posted: November 24, 2004 at 07:18 AM (#980557)
By my eye and mind, 53 ballots were filed and only one person was named on 70% of them. That person was named on more than 80%, and outpolled 9 people with more #1 votes. It is late here on the East Coast (15 minutes East of mean time), so I probably made a mistake.

--
Phillybooster #13
The Wizard of Oz and following volumes were immensely popular, evidently so popular that a few people named their *sons* Dorothy. . . . A man named Burl is singing on the radio as I write. . . .
Oddly, not even "Herman" (spelled with an A) is in the Top 1000 -- I guess that will soon be seen as an old-person's name.

Herman Munster is Dorothy Gale (of Oz) in reverse.

Today, 621 is "Jett", 723 is "Aditya" and 794 is "Cornelius". Which shows, primarily, that I don't get out much.

Hey, I don't believe I have met anyone with any of the listed names, except femail Dorothys. The least you can do is tell us how to continue this research.
   24. PhillyBooster Posted: November 24, 2004 at 04:22 PM (#980896)
No problem. The names of everyone with a Social Security card are recorded by the Social Security Administration.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/
   25. PhillyBooster Posted: November 24, 2004 at 04:46 PM (#980933)
Also, I just noticed that I had originally had Faber ranked lower, and then was "convinced" by the discussion during the week to move him up to number 1. Now, I see that I'm the only one who had him #1. I don't regret the decision, but now I'm curious exactly who it was who convinced me!
   26. yest Posted: November 25, 2004 at 04:47 AM (#981716)
after this election I now have 21 differences beetween my phom and the real one
   27. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 25, 2004 at 05:36 AM (#981748)
Also, I just noticed that I had originally had Faber ranked lower, and then was "convinced" by the discussion during the week to move him up to number 1. Now, I see that I'm the only one who had him #1. I don't regret the decision, but now I'm curious exactly who it was who convinced me!

The Ghost of Red Faber?

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
   28. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 25, 2004 at 07:37 AM (#981801)
Thanks Phillybooster. In India, there are lots of people named "Aditya". Not many Jetts or Cornelius's though.
   29. Guapo Posted: December 01, 2004 at 10:24 PM (#990087)
Thought this was amusing: compare the 1939 HOF Election Results.

Red who? Max who? We get some idea of what the BBWAA thought of Hornsby's personality. And Kid Nichols is in a dead heat with Bill Dineen.

But good news for George Sisler.
   30. ronw Posted: December 02, 2004 at 01:21 AM (#990327)
More from that other organization:

Soon to Be Hall of Famer Happy Jack Chesbro wants to point out that he received as many votes for that Hall of Fame as Amos Rusie and Sam Crawford, and more than Zack Wheat and Bobby Wallace, to name a few HOMers.

Also, apparently Frankie Frisch was a member of the BBWAA, since Jesse Haines got a vote.

In sum, the BBWAA has elected:

1936 - Cobb - HOM
1936 - Ruth - not eligible for HOM yet
1936 - Wagner - HOM
1936 - Mathewson - HOM
1936 - W Johnson - HOM
1937 - Lajoie - HOM
1937 - Speaker - HOM
1937 - Young - HOM
1937 - G Wright (VC) - HOM
1937 - McGraw (VC) - still getting HOM votes, elected to HOF as manager
1937 - Mack (VC) - elected as manager
1937 - B Johnson (VC) - elected as pioneer
1937 - Bulkeley (VC) - elected because HOF VC voters stupid
1938 - Alexander - HOM
1938 - Cartwright (VC) - elected as pioneer
1938 - Chadwick (VC) - elected as pioneer
1939 - Sisler - getting HOM votes
1939 - E Collins - HOM
1939 - Keeler - HOM
1939 - Gehrig - not eligible for HOM yet
1939 - Anson (VC) - HOM
1939 - Ewing (VC) - HOM
1939 - Radbourn (VC) - HOM
1939 - Spalding (VC) - HOM
1939 - Comiskey (VC)- elected as contributor
1939 - Cummings (VC) - elected because some mystery VC voter thought he invented the curve

Does anyone know who is on this Hall of Fame Veteran's Committee?
   31. robc Posted: December 02, 2004 at 01:37 AM (#990352)
It wasnt the VC committee (yet). In 1937 and 1938 it was the Centennial Commission: Ford Frick, Will Harridge, John Heydler, William Branham and George Trautman.

Landis replaced them because they werent electing 19th century players. The 1939 selections were made by Landis, Frick and Harridge. They were the "Old-Timers Committee".

Landis then appointed the following Old-Timers Committee: Ed Barrow, Bob Quinn, Sid Mercer, and Connie Mack. Between 39 and 44 they never managed to meet.

All info from "The Politics of Glory".
   32. robc Posted: December 02, 2004 at 01:41 AM (#990357)
One more amusing note: In August 1944 Landis added Stephen Clark and Mel Webb to the OTC. They finally met for the first time at Landis' funeral (Nov 44). They inducted ... wait for it ... Kennesaw Mountain Landis.
   33. jimd Posted: December 02, 2004 at 01:53 AM (#990378)
According to the Ken Smith book on "Baseball's hall of Fame",
1937: Landis, Harridge, Frick, Heydler, Bramham, Trautman
1938: presumably the same
1939: Landis, Harridge, Frick
IIRC, Harridge and Frick are the two league presidents at this time.

After the Hall opening in 1939, Landis appointed a new committee:
Edward Barrow (president, NY Yankees)
Robert Quinn (president, Boston Braves)
Connie Mack (president, Phil. Athletics)
Sid Mercer ("dean of baseball writers")
This committee never got around to meeting.

Landis added two more in 1944:
Stephen Clark (of the HOF)
Mel Webb (writer, Boston Globe)
This committee was also named as trustees for the HOF, succeeding Landis.
They then elected Landis after his death 3 months later.
   34. jimd Posted: December 02, 2004 at 01:53 AM (#990380)
Should have refreshed first...
   35. jimd Posted: December 02, 2004 at 01:58 AM (#990392)
If the name Mel Webb rings a bell, he's the "old bastard" that didn't think Ted's Triple Crown was worth an MVP ballot mention in 1947.
   36. Paul Wendt Posted: December 03, 2004 at 02:07 AM (#992650)
The good old Veterans Committee was established in 1953, its successor in 2003.

The BBWAA was established in 1908. Among almost 500 members in 1951, Mel Webb was one of three from the class of '08: Melville Webb, Boston Globe; Ed Bang, Cleveland News; Ernest Lanigan, The Sporting News.
[Turkin & Thompson, Official Encyclopedia of BB, 1st ed., 1951]
   37. jonesy Posted: December 03, 2004 at 11:43 AM (#993346)
The "Mel Webb didn't vote for Ted Williams in the 1947 MVP ballot" has long been disproven.

From "Ted Williams: A Portrait in Words and Pictures" by Dick Johnson and Glenn Stout, page 97.

"It was not a Boston writer who left Williams off the ballot, a fact reported at the time and ignored ever since. Mel Webb didn't even have a vote in 1947. Boston was represented in the American League balloting by Jack Malaney of the Post, Joe Cashman of the Record, and Burt Whitman of the Herald. All three enjoyed a good relationship with Ted. Malaney was later hired by the Red Sox as publicity director. Cashman was a Williams favorite, as was Whitman. When Whitman died in 1952, Williams reportedly broke into tears.

"According to Harold Kaese, all three gave Williams a first-place vote, the only three he received. The 24th ballott came from a midwestern voter."

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