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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, July 25, 2005

1957 Ballot Discussion

1957 (August 8)—elect 2
WS W3 Rookie Name-Pos (Died
)
387 123.9 1936 Joe DiMaggio-CF (1999)
277 100.3 1939 Lou Boudreau-SS (2001)
281 98.3 1937 Bobby Doerr-2B (living)
237 68.2 1935 Wally Moses-RF (1990)
218 67.0 1939 Charlie Keller-LF (1990)
139 46.3 1943 Snuffy Stirnweiss-2B (1958)
145 43.6 1938 Sam Chapman-CF (living)
120 33.3 1943 Jim Russell-LF (1987)
108 36.2 1940 Danny Litwhiler-LF (living)
101 38.1 1935 Ray Mueller-C (1994)
108 31.9 1942 Hank Borowy-P (2004)
094 37.1 1939 Buddy Rosar-C (1994)

1957 (July 31)—elect 2
HF% Career Name-pos (born) BJ – MVP - All-Star

20% 37-55 Buck O’Neil-1B (1911) #4 1b 0 - 1*
16% 38-51 Max Manning-P (1918)2.5 - 1*
00% 42-51 Jim LaMarque-P (1921)2 - 3*
00% 38-53 Lester Lockett-3B/OF (1912) 1 - 3*
00% 33-51 Parnelle Woods-3B (1912) 0- 4*
00% 37-53 Henry Kimbro-CF (1912) 0 - 3*
00% 37-51 Lenny Pearson-OF (1918) 0 - 3*

Players Passing Away in 1956
HoMers
Age Elected

54 1946 Al Simmons-LF/CF

Candidates
Age Eligible

93 1902 Connie Mack-C/Mgr
83 1912 Kip Selbach-LF
82 1914 Jesse Tannehill-P
82 1914 Jimmy Slagle-CF
79 1915 Harry Howell-P
79 1916 Ginger Beaumont-CF
77 1919 Tom Hughes-P
73 1922 Solly Hofman-CF
67 1926 Fred Merkle-1b
65 1926 Buck Weaver-SS/3b
56 1940 John Beckwith-SS/3b

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 25, 2005 at 01:26 PM | 106 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   101. karlmagnus Posted: August 12, 2005 at 03:21 PM (#1541352)
We don't yet know which younger pitchers may qualify for the HOM, but off the top of my head Schilling, Halladay, Carpenter, Glavine, Santana, Rivera, Prior, would all seem to have a good chance, and there must be 3-4 others I've forgotten.
   102. sunnyday2 Posted: August 12, 2005 at 03:40 PM (#1541392)
Chris, why do pitchers have more impact on the innings they throw? Are you saying it is BECAUSE they throw fewer innings, or is it for some othr reason? I don't agree with the former. An IP is an IP. Unless you means because of more Ks or whatever...?

The value of an IP is what it is. It doesn't know who threw it.
   103. karlmagnus Posted: August 12, 2005 at 04:57 PM (#1541562)
Correct me if I've blown Sabermetrics 101, but I thought that pitching was more valuable now because fielding was so much better, with percentages of .97 or .98, that there was less variation, so better pitching made more difference. If you have a team full of Levi Meyerles fielding, outs will be pure luck anyway, so it doesn't matter who picthes.
   104. Chris Cobb Posted: August 12, 2005 at 05:33 PM (#1541623)
The value of an IP is what it is. It doesn't know who threw it.

As Karl says, it's a matter of who gets responsibility for the outs. Pitchers throw fewer innings now because the work harder on every at bat, and part of the reason that they work harder is because they make more of the difference: more K's, more home runs, less variation in fielding talent behind them all mean that more responsibility for run prevention rests with pitchers.
   105. sunnyday2 Posted: August 12, 2005 at 06:30 PM (#1541732)
I'm going to estimate that IP by starting pitchers have declined about 30 percent--from around 350 to 250 by league leaders, e.g.--in my lifetime. That's not just a decline from 9 IP per game to 6, but rather a combination of, say, 1 less IP per game plus the change from 4 to 5 man rotations.

Has anybody given thought to some sort of quantitative measure of how much more responsibility the pitcher has for differential outs today? (I say "differential outs" because as fielding gets better you could argue that the fielders are more important and the pitchers less; the retort being that, yes, but that's the same for most pitchers [the ones who don't have Derek Jeter behind them at SS ;-)]).

Just for the record, I gave 50 percent of pitching WS pre-1893 to fielders. After that I treat them all the same. What specific adjustments would you make? How has the change progressed through the decades?

To answer that, based on Chris' comment, you'd have to factor in all the DIPs factors plus the changes in differential fielding rates, right? Any other factors? Anybody got a formula for that?
   106. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: August 15, 2005 at 02:55 AM (#1546296)
Karl, good catch on Rivera. If any closer is to ever be seen as a no-brainer, it will likely be Mariano. So many super seasons, lots of post-season heroics (despite two or three big letdowns: 1997, 2001, 2004); mucho national exposure via the Yanks.
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