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Tuesday, November 15, 2005

1964 Results: Southern Boys Reese and Ferrell Add Two More Names to the Hall of Merit!

In his first year of eligibility, Brooklyn Dodgers captain Pee Wee Reese easily nabbed the first spot for induction with 69% of all possible points.

In his 21st year on a ballot, Cleveland and Boston pitching star Wes Ferrell earned the second spot for the election. His 40% of all possible points is one of the lowest in HoM history.

Top-ten returnees include: Red Ruffing, Joe Medwick, Bob Lemon (his first year of eligibility, he looks poised for induction himself one of these years), Biz Mackey, Eppa Rixey, Clark Griffith, George Van Haltren, and George Sisler.

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1  n/e  Pee Wee Reese            804   42  18  3  7  1  2     4  1  1  2  1  1        1
 2    3  Wes Ferrell              466   31   3  4  1  3  4     2  4  1  2     4     1  2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    4  Red Ruffing              439   28   3  3  1  4  3  4  1  1  2  2     1  2     1
 4    5  Joe Medwick              423   30   2  4  1  3  3  1  1        5  1  3  3  3   
 5  n/e  Bob Lemon                375   27   1  3  2  3  3     4     1     2  2  2  1  3
 6    7  Biz Mackey               336   27   1  1  1  2     1  5  1  6     1  1  2  2  3
 7    6  Eppa Rixey               316   22   1  3  3  2     2  1  1  1  2     1  2  1  2
 8    8  Clark Griffith           288   19   1  4     2     3  2  1  1     1  1  1  1  1
 9    9  George Van Haltren       286   19   2  2  2  1  4     1     2     1     1  1  2
10   11  George Sisler            283   23   1     2     2  2  2  4     2     2  1  3  2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   10  Cool Papa Bell           273   22      1  2  1  1  2  1  2  3  1  1  2  2  2  1
12   12  Jake Beckley             251   16   2  3  2  1     1        1  2     1  2  1   
13   14  Hugh Duffy               245   19      1     2  3  3  1     2     3     1  1  2
14   13  Cupid Childs             243   19         2  1  1  1  3  4  1  2  1     1  1  1
15   19  Cannonball Dick Redding  240   18   1  1  1  1  1  3     2  2        1  3  2   
16   16  Pete Browning            226   15   1  3  2     2           1  2  1     1  1  1
17   17  Dobie Moore              224   14   2  2  2        2  1  1     1  1     2      
18   15  Willard Brown            222   19      1  1  1     1  2     2  2  3  2     3  1
19   18  Bobby Doerr              209   17         1  3     3        3     2  2  1  1  1
20   22  José Méndez              196   15   1     1  1  2  2  1     1     1  1  3     1
21   21  Joe Sewell               191   16         2  2  1        1  3  1     2  1  1  2
22   20  Mickey Welch             182   10   3  1  2  1           1  1        1         
23   27  Charley Jones            172   13   1  1  1        1     4  1        1     1  2
24   23  Joe Gordon               171   15      1     1     2           1  6  1  1  1  1
25   25  Bucky Walters            166   12         2  1  2     1  1  2  2        1      
26   24  Ralph Kiner              163   14                  2  3  1  2     4     1     1
27   26  Alejandro Oms            161   11   1     1  1  1  2  1     1  1  1  1         
28   29  Rube Waddell             147   13            1  2     1  1     2  2  1     2  1
29   32  Quincy Trouppe           136   12            1     2  1  2        1  1  2  2   
30   28  Tommy Leach              132   10      1     1  1     2     1  2           2   
31   31  Edd Roush                115   11         1        1        1  3     1  1  2  1
32   30  Burleigh Grimes          107    8      1        1  1     1  1     2     1      
33   35  Wally Schang              97    7   1        1           2     1  1  1         
34   33  Larry Doyle               96    6      1  1     2     1              1         
35   34  Roger Bresnahan           91    7      2                 1     1           3   
36   37  Gavy Cravath              86    7   1           1           1  1     1  1     1
37   36  Bob Elliott               79    7            1     1     1     1  1        1  1
38   40  Tommy Bridges             62    6                        2  1     1     1     1
39   38  Bob Johnson               60    6               1        1        1     1  1  1
40   39  John McGraw               59    4         1     1     1        1               
41   41  Phil Rizzuto              51    6                              1     2  2     1
42   43  Jimmy Ryan                50    5            1                 1     1     1  1
43   42  Charlie Keller            49    4               1     1  1                    1
44   56T Bill Monroe               43    4         1                       1  1        1
45   45  Luke Easter               43    3         1        1              1            
46   46  Ed Williamson             42    4                     1           2     1      
47   48  Dizzy Trout               40    3                  1  1        1               
48   44  Vern Stephens             38    3               2                             1
49   50  Vic Willis                37    3                  1     1           1         
50   49  Frank Chance              36    4            1                             1  2
51   51T Ben Taylor                34    3            1                    1        1   
52T  47  Dizzy Dean                33    3                           2        1         
52T  51T Sam Rice                  33    3                        2                 1   
54   56T Dutch Leonard             32    3                        2                    1
55   53  Ernie Lombardi            30    2   1                                         1
56   54  Carl Mays                 27    3                              1     1     1   
57   58  Addie Joss                26    2                  1           1               
58   55  Chuck Klein               24    2                     1           1            
59   64T Bobby Veach               23    2                  1                    1      
60   60  Leroy Matlock             23    1      1                                       
61   59  Bobo Newsom               19    2                                 1  1         
62   61T Pie Traynor               18    1         1                                    
63T  64T Tommy Bond                17    1            1                                 
63T  61T Ed Cicotte                17    1            1                                 
65   76T George J. Burns           16    2                                    1     1   
66   61T Fielder Jones             16    1               1                              
67  n/e  Virgil Trucks             14    1                     1                        
68   64T Johnny Pesky              13    1                        1                     
69   69T Sam Leever                11    1                              1               
70   69T Fred Dunlap               10    1                                 1            
71T  71T Artie Wilson               9    1                                    1         
71T  71T Joe Tinker                 9    1                                    1         
73T  74T Bus Clarkson               8    1                                       1      
73T  71T Lefty Gomez                8    1                                       1      
73T  74T Hack Wilson                8    1                                       1      
76   78  Al Rosen                   7    1                                          1   
77T  68  Dom DiMaggio               6    1                                             1
77T n/e  Dick Lundy                 6    1                                             1
Dropped Out: Dolf Luque(67), George Scales(76T).
Ballots Cast: 48

 

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 15, 2005 at 01:12 AM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:05 AM (#1732002)
Congratulations to Reese and Ferrell!

Though I didn't have Wes on my ballot, I still think he was a worthy choice as a prime candidate.
   2. Kelly in SD Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:12 AM (#1732010)
Wow, congrats to Pee-Wee and Wes. Wes is a bit of a surprise to me. I know he was 3rd in the last election, but I am still surprised that Ruffing didn't make the leap.

Only the top 6 were on half of the ballots.

I would not be surprised to see Doby and Slaughter be elected next election because of the fragmentation of the ballot. Doby has a very good peak and prime by win shares plus NeL credit and War credit that should make him mid to bottom of the ballot worthy for most career voters. Slaughter has good peak/prime/career totals and his career totals will get a huge boost if you give War credit as he missed 3 seasons.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh, and when I saw the headline, I first thought of the HoF's mistaken induction of Rick in the 1980s.
   3. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:16 AM (#1732017)
Somewhere, Dick Thompson is smiling.
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:24 AM (#1732026)
Somewhere, Dick Thompson is smiling.

I doubt it, Jon. He's probably annoyed that he wasn't elected in 1944 with 100% of all possible points. :-)

Seriously, he's in the HoM, so that's got to count for something.
   5. sunnyday2 Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:35 AM (#1732040)
Beat me to it. I was gonna say that Dick Thompson and David Jones will be posting shortly, thanking us for our enlightened vote.

(Removes tongue from cheek to say:) Just kidding. Ain't gonna happen after Dick basically told us all we were nuffin' but a worthless collection of morons for, as John says, not electing his boy immediately upon eligibility, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I really didn't think we would elect Wesley after that but we were able to separate Mr. Ferrell from his friends. Well, some of us were....
   6. sunnyday2 Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:36 AM (#1732043)
Oh yeah, can we waive the 5 year rule so i can vote for Eddie Guerrero next year. The Angels are sure going to miss his bat next year.
   7. Dag Nabbit: secretary of the World Banana Forum Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:55 AM (#1732075)
Since there's nothing quite like re-reading someone calling me a vile, cretinous liar, here's the everyone who doesn't like Wes Ferrell is just jealous!1!11!!! thread. Hilarity ensues beginning with post #132.
   8. DavidFoss Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:56 AM (#1732077)
David Jones

I believe it was "jonesy".

I think David Jones was the guy who led the charge against conservative early placement of Martin Dihigo to facilitate that first ballot induction. Smart guy and eloquent poster.

Congratulations to our inductees!
   9. Chris Cobb Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:58 AM (#1732080)
I'm glad to see Wes Ferrell finally gain election, the first 20th-century, major-league pitcher not in the HoF to be elected to the HoF. Will Bert Blyleven be the next??

Kelly wrote:

Only the top 6 were on half of the ballots.

I think we're going to see about this number getting onto half the ballots for a while, unless we really do expand the ballot. When Rixey, Griffith, and Van Haltren edge up into the top 5, they'll do so partly because they pick up a handful of votes from folks who have them in the 16-20 range now.

I would not be surprised to see Doby and Slaughter be elected next election because of the fragmentation of the ballot. Doby has a very good peak and prime by win shares plus NeL credit and War credit that should make him mid to bottom of the ballot worthy for most career voters. Slaughter has good peak/prime/career totals and his career totals will get a huge boost if you give War credit as he missed 3 seasons.

Doby is a lock.
Slaughter is probable, though if he gets as much of a cold shoulder from the peak voters as Ruffing has, he might fall short.

I like 'em both for election in '65, and will probably have them at #1 and #2 respectively.
   10. jimd Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:58 AM (#1732081)
Least votes-to-elect (when elected)
-------------------
5 1905 richardson
6 1918 flick
6 1932 foster
6 1939 faber
6 1942 terry
6 1961 averill
7 1964 ferrell
8 1960 jennings
9 1910 galvin
9 1916 stovey
9 1926 magee
9 1958 hack
   11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 15, 2005 at 02:58 AM (#1732082)
I believe it was "jonesy".


You got the right guy, David.
   12. OCF Posted: November 15, 2005 at 03:05 AM (#1732089)
Consensus scores: average -12.1, best possible +5. Not quite a record low, but second lowest to 1961's -13.8. Range of individual scores from -3 (DanG) to -25 (KJOK); mostly the usual people in pretty close to the usual places.
   13. jimd Posted: November 15, 2005 at 03:10 AM (#1732095)
Less votes-to-elect than off-ballots
------------------------------------
13 1940 pike (12x25)
13 1960 jennings (8x21)
10 1964 ferrell (7x17)
6 1939 carey (10x16)
8 1961 averill (6x14)
5 1932 foster (6x11)
5 1942 terry (6x11)
3 1939 faber (6x9)
2 1958 boudreau (11x13)
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: November 15, 2005 at 03:39 AM (#1732136)
All-time 'vote points totals' leaders, through 1964. Active for 1965 vote in CAPS

Van Haltren is poised to take over the top spot - one of his first voters in 1965 will do the trick! (good time for whomever has the Official tallies to check this handcrafted update for accuracy; it's been a few years)

Jennings 16976
VAN HALTREN 16961.5
BECKLEY 16257
DUFFY 16073.5
GRIFFITH 15530
BROWNING 14025.5
Pike 13399
Thompson 12349
WADDELL 12125
CHILDS 11948

WELCH 11774
Bennett 11503
RYAN 10838.5
Caruthers 10704
Beckwith 9920
H Stovey 9576
RIXEY 9299
SISLER 8527
Start 8378.5
McGinnity 8232

Pearce 8073
BRESNAHAN 7991
McVey 7985.5
Grant 7969.5
TLEACH 7909
(C Jones 7126, Sewell 6683, Monroe 5512, Redding 5339, Mendez 5163, Roush 4948, Doyle 4858, Mackey 4652,Ruffing 4547, Williamson 4509, Medwick 4341, CP Bell 4048)
   15. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: November 15, 2005 at 03:39 AM (#1732137)
Just kidding. Ain't gonna happen after Dick basically told us all we were nuffin' but a worthless collection of morons for, as John says, not electing his boy immediately upon eligibility, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I really didn't think we would elect Wesley after that but we were able to separate Mr. Ferrell from his friends. Well, some of us were....


You guys didn't say something bad about Bill Jackman, too, did ya?
   16. sunnyday2 Posted: November 15, 2005 at 03:50 AM (#1732154)
>You guys didn't say something bad about Bill Jackman, too, did ya?

No, we didn't say anything about Bill Jackman, which was probably just as bad.
   17. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 15, 2005 at 04:23 PM (#1732457)
Slaughter is probable, though if he gets as much of a cold shoulder from the peak voters as Ruffing has, he might fall short.

Will Slaughter get demerits among the electorate for character issues for his perceived racial attitude?
   18. Paul Wendt Posted: November 15, 2005 at 05:01 PM (#1732505)
"David Jones" is the real name of Marc sunnyday's "enemy" on war credit.

He leads SABR's Deadball Era Cmte and must be in the bunker editing Deadball Stars of the American League. For a lot more info, some of it relevant, visit Deadball Era Resources.
   19. Mark Donelson Posted: November 15, 2005 at 05:05 PM (#1732510)
Will Slaughter get demerits among the electorate for character issues for his perceived racial attitude?

Not from me. But I'm also one of the peak voters Chris mentioned, and I am likely to give him a slightly colder shoulder than the rest of the electorate, I think.
   20. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 15, 2005 at 05:31 PM (#1732545)
Not from me. <i>

Same here, Mark, but I can understand others who may do so in '65.

BTW, Slaughter looks to be high on my ballot with the appropriate WWII credit. I should have him behind Doby (his peak and WWII/NeL credit is just too much for "Country").
   21. yest Posted: November 15, 2005 at 06:24 PM (#1732645)
Consensus scores: average -12.1, best possible +5. Not quite a record low, but second lowest to 1961's -13.8. Range of individual scores from -3 (DanG) to -25 (KJOK); mostly the usual people in pretty close to the usual places.

where's mine I thought I'll have the lowest due to not having reese Feerral or Ruffing on my ballot
   22. OCF Posted: November 15, 2005 at 07:03 PM (#1732719)
Gadfly -22, yest -23, karlmagnus -24, KJOK -25. As I said, the usual people in pretty close to the usual places.
   23. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 15, 2005 at 09:23 PM (#1733004)
Once again it's impressive that the electorate doesn't worry about fame or conventional recognition. Ferrell was elected over a number of HOF pitchers, and his hitting skills thoroughly discussed. So in addition to Negro Leaguers and 19th Century guys playing for defunct teams/leagues, the HOM has emplaqued a worthy HOF omission.
   24. yest Posted: November 15, 2005 at 09:58 PM (#1733091)
1964 Results: Southern Boys Reese and Ferrell Add Two More Names to the Hall of Merit!

1984 Results: Southern Boys Reese and Ferrell Add Two More Names to the Hall of Fame!
   25. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: November 15, 2005 at 10:55 PM (#1733187)
OCF,

Where do I fit in? I used to have a really high consensus score but i haven't been to high lately.
   26. OCF Posted: November 15, 2005 at 11:07 PM (#1733216)
Oh, you're still high. In this case, 7th from the top at -5. I was a little higher than usual myself this time, at -3, 3rd from the top - even with Ferrell 8th and Doyle 3rd. I did at least include the top 7 candidates and 8 of the top 9. But the record this time along those lines was DanG who voted for the top 11 candidates.
   27. sunnyday2 Posted: November 15, 2005 at 11:14 PM (#1733228)
Re. #24--that is amazing but true!
   28. DavidFoss Posted: November 15, 2005 at 11:17 PM (#1733232)
1984 Results: Southern Boys Reese and Ferrell Add Two More Names to the Hall of Fame!

They got the wrong Ferrell, though. Still, its cool that those two quotes lined up like that.
   29. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 16, 2005 at 01:03 AM (#1733390)
They got the wrong Ferrell, though. Still, its cool that those two quotes lined up like that.

I'll say. Great pickup, yest!
   30. Brent Posted: November 16, 2005 at 05:43 AM (#1733611)
It's great to see (Wes) Ferrell finally elected! I've had him in an elect-me spot in 14 of 21 elections.
   31. sunnyday2 Posted: November 19, 2005 at 12:24 AM (#1737892)
Speaking of Bill Jackman (#16), I just ran across this.

There's a fraudulent clothing line, thanks to Eric Williams of the Toronto Raptors, in honor of the Negro Basketball League, which ever existed. A recvent exchange of emails on the APBRA list brought the following, from noted baseball and basketball researcher and writer Claude Johnson:

I hope we're not witnessing the onset of a trend, but
with digital imaging, scarce historical awareness on
the part of the public and media, and $$$ to be made,
we could see more of this idiocy:

http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/

The photo is really that of a pitcher on whom my
e-colleague Dick Thompson of Bridgewater, Mass. is
writing a well-deserved biography- Cannonball Will
Jackman. The real Jackman, who died in 1972 not long
after the Commonwealth of Massachusetts declared a day
in his honor (Cooperstown has the documents), and the
Mayor of Boston presented him with a bust in Jackman's
likeness, pitched from 1925-1950 in New England for
teams such as the Philadelphia Giants, Boston Royal
Giants, East Douglas (teamed w/ Hank Greenberg there
in the old Blackstone River Valley League) and
Watertown Arsenal. He was also a Brooklyn Eagle  for a
spell. Bill Yancey called him the best player he ever
saw, John McGraw said if he'd could sign him, his
biggest dilemma would be whether to have him pitch, or
play every day because of his bat, and Herb Finnegan
of the Boston Daily Traveler said he was in the class
of Grover Cl. Alexander and Walter Johnson. He was
fanning 25-year-olds former AAA players and collegians
in the Newport summer league when he was 48. Now he's
relegated to a phony space program website.

Let's get our speakers bureau up and at 'em soon. I
was just thinking last night I should create a master
list w/ Dean O and Dean L, Bob K, Mike G, Ray LeBov,
David in Dayton, Jim Healy, Claude, Keith E, John
Grasso, John Cristgau, Matt, Robert, and our other
"real" historians on it.

Otherwise, someone's gonna get rich, AND miseducate
some children.
   32. ronw Posted: November 19, 2005 at 12:50 AM (#1737950)
I had not seen that site before, but it apparently has been around since 2004. The movie Mark from the site just posted is a hilarious parody of a Ken Burns film. In the middle, there is one of the well-known "letters to home" that will have many of you falling out of your chair.

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