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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, April 03, 2006

1973 Results: The Hall of Merit Has a New “Chairman” and “Bell” Ringer!

In his first year of eligibility, Yankee ace pitcher Whitey Ford earned 79% of all possible points to achieve immortality.

After 26 years on the ballot, legendary Negro League speedster Cool Papa Bell finally did the trick in ‘73. With 37% of all possible points, Bell became the Hall of Merit’s 22nd Negro League inductee.

Rounding out the top-ten were: Biz Mackey (bridesmaid once again!), George Sisler (big jump for Gorgeous George!), Willard BrownCannonball Dick Redding (cannonballs up a few notches!), Joe Gordon, José Méndez (first time in the top-ten!) , Minnie Minoso (another top-ten newbie!), and George Van Haltren.

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1  n/e  Whitey Ford              968   47  22  5 10  1  4  2     1     1  1            
 2    5  Cool Papa Bell           451   30   2  5  5     2  2  1     2  4     3     3  1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    4  Biz Mackey               402   31   1  1  1  3  3     2  7  2  2  2     5  1  1
 4    8  George Sisler            397   30   1  1  2  3  2  4  1     3  3  6     1  2  1
 5    6  Willard Brown            393   30   2  2  2  1  2  1  4  2     3  3     2  2  4
 6   10  Cannonball Dick Redding  374   25   2  3  1  3  1  3  4        1  2  2  1  2   
 7    9  Joe Gordon               362   28      1  3  6  1  1  1  1  1  3  2  2  2  2  2
 8   14  José Méndez              362   24   1  5  1  1  4     2  2  1  1  2  1        3
 9   11  Minnie Minoso            355   31         2  2  1     5  1  3  4  3  4  2     4
10    7  George Van Haltren       332   23   2  3  2  1  2     2     1     4  4  1     1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   16  Ralph Kiner              307   25         2     4  5  2     2  1  1  2  2  1  3
12   12  Dobie Moore              294   19   3  2  1  2  2  2  1  1              2  1  2
13   13  Jake Beckley             285   19   1  5        4     1           2  3  1  1  1
14   15  Hugh Duffy               276   18   1  3     4     1  1  2  2  1  1  1        1
15   17T Joe Sewell               272   22   1  1     2  2  1  2  2  1  1     2  3  1  3
16   19  Pete Browning            252   17   2  2  2     1     1     3  2  2        2   
17   20  Billy Pierce             251   21            2  2  4  1  1  2  1     3  1  4   
18   17T Cupid Childs             231   17   1  1  1  1  2  1     3  2        2  1  1  1
19   21  Bucky Walters            218   17      2     1     2  1  3  2  1     1  1  2  1
20   25  Nellie Fox               204   17      1        1     1  5  2  2  1  2        2
21   22  Mickey Welch             196   13   2  1  1     1  3        2           2     1
22   23  Rube Waddell             193   15         2  3     1  1  1  1  1  1  1  2     1
23   27  Quincy Trouppe           191   15         1  2     3  1  1  2     2     2  1   
24   26  Charley Jones            169   11   1  2     1        3  2              1     1
25   24  Tommy Leach              167   14         3  1        2  1     1     1  1  3  1
26   29T Alejandro Oms            154   13      1  1     1  1        1  2  2     1  2  1
27T  31  Roger Bresnahan          145   12   1  1           1        3     1  1     4   
27T  29T Gavy Cravath             145   12         1     1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1  1     1
29   28  Edd Roush                145    9   1  1  1  1     2     1     1     1         
30   35  Burleigh Grimes          132   12   1        1     1     1     1     2  1  2  2
31   34  Bob Johnson              128   11         2  1  1              1  2     1  2  1
32   32  Bob Elliott              119   11                  2     2  1  1  2        2  1
33   33  Larry Doyle              108    7      1  1  1  2                    2         
34   36  Wally Schang             101    8   1                 1  1  1     2  2         
35   37  Charlie Keller            77    5      1        2  1                       1   
36   38  John McGraw               75    5         2        1  1           1            
37   39  Dizzy Dean                65    7                     2                 3  1  1
38   44  Addie Joss                52    4            1        1  1              1      
39   50T Tommy Bridges             51    5               1  1                       2  1
40   40  Pie Traynor               49    4            1              2           1      
41   42  Fielder Jones             45    3            1     1     1                     
42   47T Jimmy Ryan                44    4               1              2              1
43   46  Ben Taylor                42    3   1                       1                 1
44   53  Vic Willis                41    4                  1        1           1     1
45T  58  Dutch Leonard             40    4                     1     1           1     1
45T  57  Tony Mullane              40    4                  1           1        1     1
47   41  Dizzy Trout               39    3            1           1           1         
48T  45  Phil Rizzuto              37    3                     1     1  1               
48T  54  Vern Stephens             37    3               1     1                    1   
50   47T Bill Monroe               36    3            1                 1        1      
51   49  Ernie Lombardi            35    2   1                          1               
52   50T Frank Chance              34    3            1                    1        1   
53   55  Ed Williamson             32    3                        1     1        1      
54   56  Carl Mays                 31    3                        1           2         
55   52  Chuck Klein               26    2                     1     1                  
56T  60  Ed Cicotte                23    2                  1                    1      
56T  59  Sam Rice                  23    2                           1  1               
58T  63T Dom DiMaggio              22    2                        1           1         
58T  61  Gil Hodges                22    2                           1     1            
60   63T Fred Dunlap               21    2                        1              1      
61   62  Rabbit Maranville         19    2                                 1  1         
62   76  Virgil Trucks             18    2                                 1     1      
63   65  Johnny Pesky              18    1         1                                    
64   43  Luke Easter               17    1            1                                 
65   66  Lefty Gomez               16    2                                    1     1   
66   69T Bobby Veach               14    1                     1                        
67   68  Tommy Bond                13    1                        1                     
68  n/e  Al Rosen                  12    2                                             2
69   69T Sam Leever                12    1                           1                  
70T  72  Artie Wilson              11    1                              1               
70T  73T Bob Friend                11    1                              1               
70T  71  Red Schoendienst          11    1                              1               
73   73T Bus Clarkson              10    1                                 1            
74T  73T Wilbur Cooper              9    1                                    1         
74T  77T Herman Long                9    1                                    1         
76   77T Spot Poles                 8    1                                       1      
77T  79T Dave Bancroft              7    1                                          1   
77T n/e  Wally Berger               7    1                                          1   
77T  79T Hack Wilson                7    1                                          1   
80  n/e  Curt Simmons               6    1                                             1
Dropped Out: Tetelo Vargas(67), Mickey Vernon(79T).
Ballots Cast: 51
John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 03, 2006 at 12:14 AM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:02 AM (#1935402)
Congratulations to Whitey and Cool Papa!

Can someone please explain this election? I know we have two new voters, but...
   2. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:03 AM (#1935410)
HOF-not-HOM through 1973

1. Bancroft
Dave
2. Beckley
Jake
3  Bender
Chief
4  Bresnahan
Roger
5  Chance
Frank
6  Chesbro
Jack
7  Clemente
Roberto**
8  CombsEarle
9  Cuyler
Kiki
10 Dean
Dizzy
11 Duffy
Hugh
12 Evers
Johnny
13 Gomez
Lefty
14 Grimes
Burleigh
15 Hafey
Chick
16 Haines
Jesse
17 Hooper
Harry
18 Hoyt
Waite
19 Kelly
George
20 Manush
Heinie
21 Maranville
Rabbit
22 Marquard
Rube
23 McCarthy
Tommy
24 McGraw
John 
25 Pennock
Herb
26 Rice
Sam
27 Roush
Edd
28 Schalk
Ray
29 Sisler
George
30 Tinker
Joe
31 Traynor
Pie
32 Waddell
Rube
33 Waner
Lloyd
34 Welch
Mickey
35 Youngs
Ross

And HOM not-HOF

1  Ashburn
Richie
2  Averill
Earl
3  Barnes
Ross
4  Beckwith
John
5  Bell
Cool Papa
6  Bennett
Charlie
7  Brown
Ray
8  Caruthers
Bob
9  Charleston
Oscar
10 Connor
Roger
11 Dahlen
Bill
12 Davis
George
13 Dihigo
Martin
14 Doby
Larry
15 Doerr
Bobby
16 Ferrell
Wes
17 Ford
Whitey
18 Foster
Rube
19 Foster
Willie 
20 Glasscock
Jack
21 Gore
George
22 Grant
Frank
23 Groh
Heinie
24 Hack
Stan
25 Herman
Billy
26 Hill
Pete
27 Hines
Paul
28 Jackson
Joe*
29 JohnsonHome Run
30 Lemon
Bob
31 Lloyd
John Henry
32 Magee
Sherry
33 McPhee
Bid
34 McVey
Cal
35 Mize
Johnny
36 Newhouser
Hal
37 Pearce
Dickey
38 Pike
Lip
39 Richardson
Hardy
40 Reese
Pee Wee
41 Roberts
Robin
42 Rogan
Bullet Joe
43 Rusie
Amos
44 Santop
Louis
45 Sheckard
Jimmy
46 Slaughter
Enos
47 Snider
Duke
48 Start
Joe
49 Stearnes
Turkey
50 Stovey
Harry
51 Suttles
Mule
52 Sutton
Ezra
53 Thompson
Sam
54 Torriente
Cristobal
55 Vaughan
Arky
56 Wells
Willie
57 White
Deacon
58 Williams
Smokey Joe
59 Wilson
Jud

*  not eligible for the HOF
** not eligible for the HoM until 1978. 
   3. sunnyday2 Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:08 AM (#1935416)
Indeed. Who voted and who didn't vote from previous elections?

Isn't this the second time that a backlogger jumped over Mackey, who was the heir apparent each time?

And yes, what's with Sisler, Redding, Mendez and Kiner up ?4 slots. That just doesn't happen in our top 10-15. And GVH down. I guess that's what you get for talkin' about the guy too much. The only guy that really moved up on my ballot was Waddell and he stayed basically where he was.

51 ballots cast, so not too many of the regulars didn't show up. If there were 2 new voters, then 2 no-shows, I guess.
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:10 AM (#1935421)
Well, twice in the past few weeks I've wondered if Cool Papa was being done in by the natural flattening of the MLEs.
It didn't matter that much in my system, but it seemed like some voters' last hesitation with Bell was his 'lack of peak.'
Yes, there is some truth to that in the actual arc of his career. But the MLEs, I believed, slightly overdid it. We are talking extraordinary career length, reputation, fielding, and baserunnng. There's a lot of other pluses here.
Maybe that bought him a couple of votes, I don't know.

The rest of the pt totals seem explainable enough except for Van Haltren's plunge.
That one, I don't know.
I was tempted to note the greater talk about Duffy, but Duffy didn't get a boost from that...
   5. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:21 AM (#1935447)
Well, there was a fair amount of discussion about pitchers being underrepresented. I know in my case, I decided I had been underrating them, and moved Redding up about 4 spots, and Mendez and Pierce onto the ballot. But I don't understand the Bell/Mackey thing - he didn't just pass him, he ran away from him.
   6. OCF Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:32 AM (#1935469)
New voter: Chris Fluit. He had Bell high and Mackey off his ballot.
Returning from an approximate 20 year absence: Ardo. He put Mendez in an elect-me slot.
Missing voters; Gadfly, Tiboreau. Gadfly is a strong supporter of Brown, and puts Bell ahead of Mackey.

I juggled my ballot some, and moved Mendez up to an elect-me slot.

And it's all so close anyway: I had a single tallying error (since fixed) that made the difference for Mackey between 3rd place and 5th place. Every single vote counts.

Consensus scores: average -10.2; the lowest in 5 years, even with one easily elected candidate.

Chris Fluit: 0 (the new guy is an outlier on the high side)
Tom : -3
Pedro Feliz Navidad: -4
Howie Menckel: -4
Daryn: -4
Brent: -5
Rob Wood: -5
Ardo: -5
OCF: -5 (I'm up mostly because I wasn't voting for Doerr)
...
sunnyday2: -9 (median)
...
KJOK: -17
EricC: -17
Kelly in SD: -17
AJM: -19
karlmagnus: -20
Rick A: -20
Mark Donelson: -22
Dolf Lucky: -23

yest was all the way up at -2 - after all, it looks like we're about to elect Sisler.
   7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:34 AM (#1935476)
There's going to be some battle between Mackey, Brown, and Sisler in '75. Drysdale and Boyer may make things even that much more fun.
   8. sunnyday2 Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:40 AM (#1935487)
>the Bell/Mackey thing - he didn't just pass him, he ran away from him.

Before the room got dark, in fact.
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:42 AM (#1935492)
Before the room got dark, in fact.

Heh.
   10. Chris Fluit Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:44 AM (#1935499)
OCF: New voter: Chris Fluit. He had Bell high and Mackey off his ballot.
Yup, but that still only accounts for half of Bell's lead.
   11. OCF Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:44 AM (#1935500)
That's yest at -12, to fix my typo.
   12. sunnyday2 Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:47 AM (#1935505)
Hard to believe that yest and I, once anchored in the bottom of the consensus scoring (well, not counting karl, of course) are now middle to high. I wonder how many voters who were contrary in the 19th century/deadball era and more consensus now, and vice versa. i.e. having to do with how their systems work or don't work, versus those who have had low or high consensus consistently from day one, which suggests the consensus or lack of may be more of a personality tendency. If you see what I mean.
   13. Chris Fluit Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:55 AM (#1935523)
We finished this vote with 22 different candidates receiving first place votes: Beckley, Bell, Bresnahan, Brown, Browning, Childs, Duffy, Ford, Grimes, Jones, Lombardi, Mackey, Mendez, Moore, Redding, Roush, Schang, Sewell, Sisler, Taylor, Van Haltren and Welch.

That's the fifth highest total, passing the 21 candidates of 1964 but still behind 1958 (24), 1967 (25), 1961 (27) and the record-setting year of 1968 (28). The big 28 from '68 were: Ashburn, Beckley, Bell, Bresnahan, Brown, Browning, Childs, Cravath, Doerr, Doyle, Duffy, Gordon, Griffith, Grimes, Jones, Leach, Lombardi, Mackey, Mendez, Moore, Oms, Rixey, Roush, Schang, Sewell, Sisler, Van Haltren and Welch. Ashburn, Doerr, Griffith and Rixey have all been elected. Cravath, Doyle, Gordon, Leach and Oms are still eligible but couldn't pick up first place tallies this time around. Ford is the new guy, while Redding and Taylor had some top slots this time but not in 1968.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: April 04, 2006 at 12:59 AM (#1935530)
All-time 'vote points totals' leaders, through 1973. Active for 1974 vote in CAPS

This vote was a tough one for Duffy and Beckley, whose ghosts had hoped to get Van Haltren out of the way soon and make a run at the all-time spot when the music stops next year. Instead, Van Haltren's slump gives him 'new life' on this board.
Mackey knocks HOM legend Dickey Pearce out of the all-time top 25, amazing to those who remember him as maybe the most-discussed candidate ever. Mackey will pass Start and McGinnity next year and build a little top-25 cushion even if he gets in the year after.
Bell came up short at 6968.

TOP 25, ALL-TIME
VAN HALTREN 19779.5
BECKLEY 18612
DUFFY 18186.5
Griffith 17924
Jennings 16976
BROWNING 16031.5
CHILDS 13945
WADDELL 13693
Pike 13399
WELCH 13364

Thompson 12349
Bennett 11503
SISLER 11334
RYAN 11145.5
Rixey 10826
Caruthers 10704
Beckwith 9896
H Stovey 9576
TLEACH 9138
BRESNAHAN 9115

SEWELL 8632
CJONES 8578
Start 8378.5
McGinnity 8232
MACKEY 8151

OTHERS IN THE TOP 25 ACTIVE
(Redding 7837, Mendez 7513, Roush 6070, Doyle 5848, Monroe 5832, Moore 5590, Williamson 4848, Cravath 4580, Grimes 4455, Schang 4145, WBrown 4073)

(Almost, McGraw 3980)
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: April 04, 2006 at 01:02 AM (#1935537)
Sunnyday,
I've done well in the consensus voting generally but slipped off the leader board around the 1950s and 1960s.
Now I'm back, pretty much.
Not sure why.

I guess I'll finish overall pretty high, which doesn't shock me.

Last 7 Presidential elections, I voted 3 Dems, 3 Reps, and 1 Ind, and never voted for anyone twice.
And I've never belonged to a political party.

So perhaps it's safe to call me a moderate, lol.
   16. jimd Posted: April 04, 2006 at 01:10 AM (#1935548)
Can someone please explain this election?

In 1973 Bell was on 30 ballots, good for 451 pts (7 elect-me spots).
In 1972 Bell was on 25 ballots, good for 369 pts (5 elect-me spots, plus 3 close).
Bell gained 82 points. Figuring plus two points per 1972 ballot, plus 12 pts in elect-me pts, plus 30 points for new ballots, gives a 92 point gain, probably an overestimate. Pretty much as expected.

In 1973 Mackey was on 31 ballots, good for 402 pts (2 elect-me spots).
In 1972 Mackey was on 30 ballots, good for 383 pts (2 elect-me spots, plus 2 close).
Mackey gained 19 points. Figuring plus two points per 1972 ballot, plus 8 pts in elect-me pts, plus 6 points for new ballots, gives a 74 point gain, probably an overestimate. Nowhere like expected.

This should have been very close, but it wasn't. Voters moved Bell up as expected. They did not move Mackey up as expected. People are hesitating on pulling the trigger on Mackey.
   17. jimd Posted: April 04, 2006 at 01:20 AM (#1935561)
Another alternative: a more detailed analysis might show that Mackey was favored by non-Koufax, non-Doerr voters, and so could not move up, while Bell was. (Note: I have not done such an analysis.)
   18. jimd Posted: April 04, 2006 at 01:21 AM (#1935563)
Name Votes PCT
Warren Spahn 316 83.16

Whitey Ford 255 67.11
Ralph Kiner 235 61.84
Gil Hodges 218 57.37
Robin Roberts 213 56.05
Bob Lemon 177 46.58
Johnny Mize 157 41.32
Enos Slaughter 145 38.16
Marty Marion 127 33.42
Pee Wee Reese 126 33.16
George Kell 114 30.00
Phil Rizzuto 111 29.21
Duke Snider 101 26.58
Red Schoendienst 96 25.26
Allie Reynolds 93 24.47
Hal Newhouser 79 20.79
Phil Cavarretta 73 19.21
Nellie Fox 73 19.21
Alvin Dark 53 13.95
Johnny Sain 47 12.37
Dom DiMaggio 43 11.32
Bobo Newsom 33 8.68
Richie Ashburn 25 6.58
Mickey Vernon 23 6.05
Ted Kluszewski 14 3.68
Lew Burdette 12 3.16
Don Newcombe 11 2.89
Vern Law 9 2.37
Walker Cooper 8 2.11
Dick Groat 7 1.84
Vic Raschi 7 1.84
Dutch Leonard 6 1.58
Roy McMillan 5 1.32
Bobby Shantz 5 1.32
Curt Simmons 5 1.32
Carl Erskine 4 1.05
Billy Pierce 4 1.05
Harry Brecheen 3 0.79
Bobby Thomson 3 0.79
Gil McDougald 2 0.53
Bobby Richardson 2 0.53
Vic Wertz 2 0.53
Smoky Burgess 1 0.26
Harvey Haddix 1 0.26
Larry Doby 0 0.00

This was the first year of eligibility for Spahn, Roberts, and Ford.
   19. Trevor P. Posted: April 04, 2006 at 04:57 AM (#1936291)
You know, I could understand Medwick appearing on 20+ ballots than Bob Johnson.

Minnie Minoso, on the other hand, I'm having a few problems with. What am I missing here? I see them as incredibly similar.
   20. Trevor P. Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:04 AM (#1936308)
Oh, OCF - could I ask what my consensus score is? In the thirty-odd years I've cast a ballot I don't think I've ever seen my name pop up, on either the high or low side. I'm sort of curious about how mundane my ballot truly is. :)
   21. OCF Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:15 AM (#1936339)
Trevor P: -10 this time, right on the mean, slightly below the median - and slightly below where you usually land, which is above the mean. Your 29-year average is 2.8 points above the mean. (My own 53-year average is 3.7 points above the mean.) You were your furthest away from the mean - 8 or 9 points above it - in 1948 and 1949.
   22. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: April 04, 2006 at 01:34 PM (#1936604)
The election of Koufax and Doerr helped my consensus score, and now with Bell out of the way, it ought to start soaring!...toward the median that is.
   23. DavidFoss Posted: April 04, 2006 at 01:41 PM (#1936613)
In the thirty-odd years I've cast a ballot I don't think I've ever seen my name pop up, on either the high or low side. I'm sort of curious about how mundane my ballot truly is. :)

I'm almost never mentioned either. I think I made the low list once in the Slaughter election, and I got really lucky and hit the median once.

Mundane is not really a good word (at least *I* don't think so. :-)) If I think of the electorate as a Normal Distribution, then its the high-consensus guys at the top of the curve crowding, and its the low-consensus guys on the tails of the curve. Us? We're the ones halfway down the slope on either side. We're the ones who provide the shape of the curve! That's us! Be proud, man! :-)
   24. sunnyday2 Posted: April 04, 2006 at 02:19 PM (#1936656)
I prefer to think of it this way. It ain't much of a bell without a clapper.
   25. Al Peterson Posted: April 04, 2006 at 02:38 PM (#1936676)
You know, I could understand Medwick appearing on 20+ ballots than Bob Johnson.

Minnie Minoso, on the other hand, I'm having a few problems with. What am I missing here? I see them as incredibly similar.


I'm with you Trevor on the Minoso argument. Though I didn't really see the chasm between Medwick and Bob Johnson as much as the electorate during the time both were on the ballot.

The late arrival and early exit at the major league level of BJ is his shortcoming. Think about it - he spends 3 1/2 years in the PCL before joining the A's. How many other players have done that who later performed at his level? People like Earl Averill and Wally Berger I guess. But no mid-season sale to a ML club, just stay out West there.

I'm also a rare one who rates Johnson over Willard Brown. I get the sense the numbers for Indian Bob would show a better distribution of OBP to SLG in comparison to Brown, who walked just enough to stay effective.

Brown has other factors to consider - the KC Monarch teams were very successful during his time there. Did he have one of those NY Yankee factors - advantages for not having to face your own team? What was the Negro League competition distribution at this time? Also nagging me is the fact that you read Brown didn't really put forth the effort with the glove unless he was in the mood. It's the kind of thing that just kinda sticks in the back of my mind.

That being said, Brown wouldn't be a terrible choice. I just have others who I'd have in first.
   26. DL from MN Posted: April 04, 2006 at 03:43 PM (#1936807)
I'm rating Bob Johnson 3rd on the next ballot and it isn't really close.

Ford and Pierce were a little further apart on the ballot than I think they should be but there weren't any MLB pitchers between them.
   27. Ardo Posted: April 04, 2006 at 04:15 PM (#1936897)
I strongly concur with DL that the electorate is under-rating Pierce.

That said, in proper time context, Colavito is a better HoM candidate than Bob Johnson.
   28. ronw Posted: April 04, 2006 at 04:59 PM (#1936976)
So what HOFers are we snubbing to date? * - probable eventual electees

Pitchers


*Jose Mendez - getting closer, looks likely for HOM induction
Mickey Welch - steady, though not growing support
Rube Waddell - similar support as Welch
Burleigh Grimes - a little less steady than Welch/Waddell
Vic Willis - nope
Addie Joss - He's got his small following
Candy Cummings - not even if he invented electric lights
Jack Chesbro - Yes . . . well, never mind.
Chief Bender - Never even received a vote
Jesse Haines - Frankie would not be proud.
Waite Hoyt - I don't think he's gotten a vote.
Dizzy Dean - Small following, never cracked 100 points in an election.
Hilton Smith - Will new stats bring votes in time?
Leon Day - Also could be boosted by new stats.
Rube Marquard - Nary a vote
Herb Pennock - Ditto, no votes
Andy Cooper - Really could be boosted by new stats.
Lefty Gomez - Has a very small following

Catchers
*Biz Mackey - Very close
Roger Bresnahan - Loyal group of advocates, but not enough
Ernie Lombardi - karl likes him
Rick Ferrell - Hey, we elected Wes.
Ray Schalk - yest calls him the greatest catcher (read fielding catcher) ever

First Basemen
*George Sisler - Soon will no longer be a candidate for most surprising omission
*Jake Beckley - karl really likes him, may end up just short
Frank Chance - Few supporters left
Ben Taylor - New data may boost him too.
Jim Bottomley - Never received a vote
George Kelly - Look ma, no votes!
   29. ronw Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:03 PM (#1936987)
Second Basemen

Nellie Fox - Probably not, but could be close
Larry Doyle - Has some loyal fans
Red Schoendienst - Nope
Tony Lazzeri - Could get a boost if Doyle moves up
Johnny Evers - Not really
Sol White - Probably a HOFer as a pioneer

Third Basemen

John McGraw - A few fans
Pie Traynor - Very few fans
Ray Dandridge - Apparently not much of a hitter
Judy Johnson - See Dandridge, Ray
George Kell - Probably a nice guy

Shortstop

Joe Sewell - Support not enough
Phil Rizzuto - Some fane
Joe Tinker - So we don't like poetry
Dave Bancroft - One fan last year
Rabbit Maranville - Has seen a slight resurgence to 2 voters
Travis Jackson - Bill Terry might not like us either
   30. ronw Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:07 PM (#1936996)
Left Fielders

*Ralph Kiner - It looks like he has momentum
Heinie Manush - Not a vote
Chick Hafey - What is with you guys? - Frankie Frisch

Center Fielders

Hugh Duffy - May be the all-time leader when we are through
Edd Roush - Not sure about league quality
Hack Wilson - karl likes him
Lloyd Waner - We elected Paul
Earle Combs - Has a nice headstone

Right Fielders

*Willard Brown - close
Harry Hooper - The old and the peakless
Sam Rice - See Hooper, Harry
Chuck Klein - No votes anymore
Kiki Cuyler - Didn't impress us
Ross Youngs - We have no respect for the dead
Tommy McCarthy - He's in the Hall of Fame?
   31. DavidFoss Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#1937014)
Larry Doyle - Has some loyal fans

And I am one of them, but Larry is not in Cooperstown.
   32. Trevor P. Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:45 PM (#1937084)
That said, in proper time context, Colavito is a better HoM candidate than Bob Johnson.

I'm not sure what you mean by "proper time context." Going by WARP3, Johnson outscores Colavito 91.6 to 74.1. Even if you took ten percent off Johnson's entire career, he'd still be ahead.

Johnson also has a six point advantage in OPS+, and achieved that in 500 more PA that Colavito (and that's not taking into account that Johnson never played 162-game seasons).

I admit that I don't have the Win Share data with me right now, however.
   33. Trevor P. Posted: April 04, 2006 at 05:49 PM (#1937089)
David Foss - your stirring defense of average consensus scores has convinced me not to go with an all-Tony ballot (Mullane, Lazzeri, Cuccinello, Danza) for 1974. :)
   34. Daryn Posted: April 04, 2006 at 06:42 PM (#1937190)
I can see the submission for Tony Danza, now:

14. Tony Danza -- Also known as Tony Miceli, Danza spent the better part of four years in the Cardinals minor league system as a shortstop and secondbaseman. If it had not been for the anti-bad actor sentiment of that era, Danza surely would have mirrored the career of Nellie Fox.
   35. Paul Wendt Posted: April 04, 2006 at 06:55 PM (#1937215)
murph
Can someone please explain this election? I know we have two new voters, but...

sunny
And yes, what's with Sisler, Redding, Mendez and Kiner up ?4 slots. That just doesn't happen in our top 10-15. And GVH down. I guess that's what you get for talkin' about the guy too much.

Not merely talkin' about 'im but
(1) The primary theses advanced seem to be (a) GVH not much better than Ryan and (b) Duffy better than GVH.
(2) The defense of GVH by Chris Cobb et al amounts to sharp disagreement on (b) but there seems to be near consensus on (a).
   36. Paul Wendt Posted: April 04, 2006 at 06:58 PM (#1937231)
It's a good year for analysts who would to truncate the incumbents both at a round number (100 points) and at a gap in support (#34 Schang more than 30% ahead of #35 Keller).
   37. karlmagnus Posted: April 04, 2006 at 07:31 PM (#1937377)
You'd lose I think 40% of my ballot if you did this, so maybe not!
   38. yest Posted: April 04, 2006 at 07:47 PM (#1937436)
A list of eligible HoFers
HoMers in bold
all HoFers with significant playing careers are included
1936
Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson
1937
Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker, Cy Young , Connie Mack, John McGraw, George Wright
1938
Pete Alexander
1939
George Sisler, Eddie Collins , Willie Keeler , Lou Gehrig, Cap Anson , Charlie Comiskey , Candy Cummings , Buck Ewing , Charles Radbourn , Al Spalding
1942
Rogers Hornsby
1945
Roger Bresnahan , Dan Brouthers , Fred Clarke , Jimmy Collins , Ed Delahanty , Hugh Duffy , Hughie Jennings , King Kelly , Jim O’Rourke , Wilbert Robinson
1946
Jesse Burkett , Frank Chance , Jack Chesbro , Johnny Evers , , Clark Griffith, , Tommy McCarthy , Joe McGinnity , Eddie Plank , Joe Tinker , Rube Waddell , Ed Walsh
1947
Carl Hubbell , Frankie Frisch , Mickey Cochrane , Lefty Grove
1948
Herb Pennock , Pie Traynor
1949
Charlie Gehringer , Mordecai Brown , Kid Nichols
1951
Mel Ott , Jimmie Foxx
1952
Harry Heilmann , Paul Waner
1953
Al Simmons , Dizzy Dean , Chief Bender , Bobby Wallace , Harry Wright
1954
Rabbit Maranville , Bill Dickey , Bill Terry
1955
Joe DiMaggio , Ted Lyons , Dazzy Vance , Gabby Hartnett , Frank Baker , Ray Schalk
1956
Hank Greenberg , Joe Cronin
1957
Sam Crawford
1959
Zack Wheat
1961
Max Carey , Billy Hamilton
1962
Bob Feller , Jackie Robinson , Bill McKechnie , Edd Roush
1963
John Clarkson , Elmer Flick , Sam Rice , Eppa Rixey
1964
Luke Appling , Red Faber , Burleigh Grimes , Miller Huggins , Tim Keefe , Heinie Manush , Monte Ward
1965
Pud Galvin
1966
Ted Williams , Casey Stengel
1967
Red Ruffing , Lloyd Waner
1968
Joe Medwick , Kiki Cuyler , Goose Goslin
1969
Stan Musial Roy Campanella , Stan Coveleski , , Waite Hoyt,
1970
Lou Boudreau , Earle Combs , Jesse Haines,
1971
Dave Bancroft , Jake Beckley , Chick Hafey , Harry Hooper , Joe Kelley , Rube Marquard , Satchel Paige
1972
Sandy Koufax Yogi Berra ,Early Wynn, Lefty Gomez , Ross Youngs , Josh Gibson , Buck Leonard
1973
Warren Spahn , George Kelly , Mickey Welch , Monte Irvin
1974
Whitey Ford , Jim Bottomley , Sam Thompson , Cool Papa Bell
1975
Ralph Kiner , Earl Averill , Bucky Harris , Billy Herman , Judy Johnson
1976
Robin Roberts Bob Lemon , Roger Connor , Freddy Lindstrom , Oscar Charleston
1977
Amos Rusie , Joe Sewell , Al Lopez , Martin Dihigo , Pop Lloyd
1978
Addie Joss
1979
Hack Wilson
1980
Duke Snider, Chuck Klein
1981
Johnny Mize , Rube Foster
1982
Travis Jackson
1983
George Kell
1984
Rick Ferrell , Pee Wee Reese
1985
Enos Slaughter , Arky Vaughan
1986
Bobby Doerr, Ernie Lombardi
1987
Ray Dandridge
1989
Red Schoendienst
1991
Tony Lazzeri
1992
Hal Newhouser
1994
Leo Durocher , Phil Rizzuto
1995
Leon Day , Vic Willis , Richie Ashburn
1996
Bill Foster , Ned Hanlon
1997
Nellie Fox, Willie Wells
1998
George Davis , Larry Doby , Joe Rogan
1999
Joe Williams
2000
Bid McPhee , Turkey Stearnes
2001
Hilton Smith
2006
Ray Brown, Willard Brown, Andy Cooper, Biz Mackey, Mule Suttles, Cristobal Torriente, Jud Wilson, Frank Grant, Pete Hill, Jose Mendez Louis Santop, Ben Taylor, Sol White
   39. Chris Fluit Posted: April 05, 2006 at 01:41 AM (#1938225)
yest, I know you use the phrase "significant playing careers" but I think it's pretty clear that Mack, McGraw, Comiskey, Cummings, Robinson, Huggins and Stengel were elected more because of their roles as managers, owners and inventors than anything they did on the field. The player/manager/executive distinction wasn't enforced quite as clearly in some of those early elections.
   40. yest Posted: April 05, 2006 at 03:53 AM (#1938584)
And HOM not-HOF

1 Ashburn, Richie
2 Averill, Earl
3 Barnes, Ross
4 Beckwith, John
5 Bell, Cool Papa

never expected to see that
or this
yest was all the way up at -12 - after all, it looks like we're about to elect Sisler.
   41. rawagman Posted: April 05, 2006 at 02:12 PM (#1939054)
I have realized that my voting, and placement may not have been the most consistent recently. I don't think much would have been different, and I feel I may have been overlooking one or two candidates. I am currently restructuring my ranking system in an effort to be more consistent. Expect some changes in my voting this year.
   42. Paul Wendt Posted: April 05, 2006 at 03:31 PM (#1939185)
> It's a good year for analysts who would truncate the incumbents
> both at a round number (100 points)
> and at a gap in support (#34 Schang more than 30% ahead of #35 Keller).

You'd lose I think 40% of my ballot if you did this, so maybe not!


It's a good year for those who would analyse a set of incumbents defined
both by a round number (100 points)
and by a gap in support (#34 Schang is more than 30% ahead of #35 Keller).

For example, recall Chris Cobb's observation that the group deliberates over few recent mlb players; they tend to be quickly elected or quickly dismissed. Here are the recent mlb'ers in the defined set of 32 leading incumbents (not to say viable):

Gordon
Minoso
Kiner
Pierce
Walters
Fox
Johnson
Elliott

Given that a few years spent outside mlb are crucial in the assessment of both Gordon and Minoso, that observation looks very good now.
   43. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: April 07, 2006 at 05:37 AM (#1944935)
I've got a lot of catching up to do. Been immersed in rotisserie draft preparation the last week or so, had a draft last weekend in a league I've run for 10 years, and have one this weekend in a new league I've joined that is pretty hard-core, they've been going for about 20 years. Sorry for the 'neglection' here guys.

I should be fully caught up by early next week. Please don't hesitiate to email me if there is something urgent that needs my attention.

And of course, many thanks again to John, who keeps the well-oiled machine ticking without missing a beat.
   44. jimd Posted: April 14, 2006 at 11:22 PM (#1963451)
Longest wait to be elected, in years, top-10:

60 Griffith
53 Jennings
43 Pike
34 Pearce
32 Caruthers
30 Rixey
28 Thompson
26 Bell
23 Bennett
21 Ferrell
   45. Chris Fluit Posted: April 17, 2006 at 04:27 AM (#1968050)
I've got some more stats/trivia for you, jimd:

Lowest Ranked Player Eventually Elected:

Dickey Pearce, 1898-1909, low: 31st in 1898, elected in 1931
Bob Caruthers, 1910-1913, low: 20th in 1911 and 1912, elected in 1930
Clark Griffith, 1914-1923, low: 22nd in 1923, elected in 1971
Rube Foster, 1924-1927, low: 23rd in 1924 and 1925, elected in 1932
Hughie Jennings, 1928-1934, low: 17th in 1928, elected in 1960
Clark Griffith, 1935-1938, low: 13th in 1936
John Beckwith, 1939-1940, low: 14th in 1939, elected in 1957
Hughie Jennings, 1941-1944, low: 12th in 1943 and 1944
Wes Ferrell, 1945, 7th, elected in 1964
Hughie Jennings, 1946-1947, 9th in both years
Cool Papa Bell, 1948-1951, low: 17th in 1948, elected in 1973
Clark Griffith, 1952, 12th
Cool Papa Bell, 1953-1956, low: 17th in 1954
Bobby Doerr, 1957-1970, low: 24th in 1957, elected in 1972
Cool Papa Bell, 1971-1972, low: 6th in 1971
   46. Chris Fluit Posted: April 17, 2006 at 04:32 AM (#1968053)
And the other side of the coin:

Highest Ranked Player Not Yet Elected:

Ed Williamson, 1898, 10th
Pete Browning, 1899-1906, high: 10th in 1906
Cupid Childs, 1907, 11th
Hugh Duffy, 1908, 10th
Jimmy Ryan, 1909, 8th
Hugh Duffy, 1910-1915, high: 5th in 1913
Rube Waddell, 1916-1922, high: 10th in 1918, 1919 and 1921
Jake Beckley, 1923-1924, high: 13th in 1924
George Van Haltren, 1925, 12th
Jake Beckley, 1926-1929, high: 7th in 1929
George Van Haltren, 1930-1933, high: 3rd in 1931 and 1932
Jake Beckley, 1934-1938, high: 6th in 1938
Joe Sewell, 1939-1942, high: 3rd in 1940
Jake Beckley, 1943, 8th
George Van Haltren, 1944, 9th
Joe Sewell, 1945, 8th
George Sisler, 1946, 10th
Jake Beckley, 1947, 11th
George Sisler, 1948, 9th
Biz Mackey, 1949-1973, high 3rd in 1968, 1971 and 9173
   47. jimd Posted: April 17, 2006 at 06:24 PM (#1968986)
I've got some more stats/trivia for you, jimd:

Ah, we think alike ;-)

Good stuff, Chris.

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