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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, May 15, 2006

1976 Results: “Flash” and “Esse Hombre” Get Their Hall of Merit Plaques!

In his 21st election, Yankee and Indian star Joe Gordon got his HoM ticket stamped with 42% of all possible points.

In his 19th year of eligibility, Negro League slugger Willard Brown also achieved immortality by earning 38% of all possible points. He is now our 25th NeL selection.

Rounding out the top-ten were: George Sisler (missed it by this much), José Méndez , Minnie Minoso , Cannonball Dick Redding , Ralph Kiner, Joe Sewell (back in the top-ten after a long absence), Dobie Moore, and Hugh Duffy .

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1    5  Joe Gordon               511   34   1  6  4  2  1  2  4  1  4  2  1  3  1  1  1
 2    3  Willard Brown            464   32   4  1  2  2  4  2  2  4  1  3  2     3     2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    4  George Sisler            460   33   2  3     6     5  1  2     4  3     4  2  1
 4    6  José Méndez              421   26   5  1  3  3  4  1  1  2  1  1     1  1  2   
 5    7  Minnie Minoso            403   35      2  2     1  3  1  3  3  6  2  2  2  3  5
 6    8  Cannonball Dick Redding  384   25   5  1  1  4  2  1  1  1  2  1  1  2        3
 7   12  Joe Sewell               352   26   1  2  1  3  1  4     3  1  1  3     4  1  1
 8   11  Ralph Kiner              348   27      3  1  1  4  1  2  3     1     5  2  2  2
 9    9  Dobie Moore              340   23   3  2     4  2  1  1  1  2     1  2  1  2  1
10   10  Hugh Duffy               328   21   2  2  3     2  4  3  1        1  1  1     1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   16  Jake Beckley             315   21   4  1  3  1  2        1  1  2  1  1  1  1  2
12   14  George Van Haltren       298   19   2  3  1  1     1     4  3  3  1            
13   13  Pete Browning            291   20   3  2  2        1  1  4     2     1     1  3
14   19  Ken Boyer                290   24   2     1  2  2  1  3  1     1     1  1  6  3
15   18  Billy Pierce             288   22   2     1  2  2  2  2     3  1     2  1  1  3
16   15  Cupid Childs             287   21      3  2  1  3  1     2        3  2  2     2
17   17  Rube Waddell             276   19      2  5     1  2     3     1     4  1      
18   20  Nellie Fox               248   18   1     1  3  2  2  1     3  1  1  1     1  1
19   26  Charley Jones            227   14   1  3     1  1  2  3     1     1        1   
20   21  Quincy Trouppe           216   16         3  1  4     1     1  2  1     2  1   
21   24  Bucky Walters            215   18      1  1  1     1  3  2  1  1     1  2  2  2
22   23  Edd Roush                208   16   2  1     2  1  1           1  2     2  1  3
23   22  Mickey Welch             195   11   3  1  2  1        2           1  1         
24   25  Tommy Leach              188   14      2  1  1  1     1  2        1  1  4      
25   27  Roger Bresnahan          185   14   2     1        1  1  2     2  1  1  2  1   
26   29  Bob Johnson              166   13      2     1  1        2        1  5        1
27   30  Gavy Cravath             165   12      1  1  1     2  1  2  1  1           2   
28   28  Alejandro Oms            164   14   1     1     1     1  1  1  2  1     1  3  1
29   32  Bob Elliott              162   14               2  1  2  1  1     2  4        1
30   31  Burleigh Grimes          146   10   1  1     2        1     1  2  1        1   
31   34  Charlie Keller           145   10   2  1     1     1           1  1     1  1  1
32   33  Larry Doyle              140    9   1     2     3           2           1      
33   35  Wally Schang              99    7   1              3        1  1           1   
34   36  Dizzy Dean                88    9                     1     2     3        2  1
35   37  John McGraw               88    5      2           2        1                  
36   50  Ben Taylor                70    6      1              1     1           1  1  1
37   42  Vic Willis                69    7               1           1     1  2     1  1
38   38  Tommy Bridges             66    6            1  1              1        1  2   
39   44  Sam Rice                  57    6                     2              1     2  1
40   45  Jimmy Ryan                56    6                     1           1  1  2  1   
41   39  Vern Stephens             52    4            2                    1     1      
42   40  Addie Joss                51    4         1        1           1           1   
43   51  Elston Howard             50    6                           1        1  2  1  1
44   41  Bill Monroe               49    4         1                 1     1  1         
45   43  Pie Traynor               47    3      1              1           1            
46   49  Phil Rizzuto              45    4            1              1     1           1
47   46  Carl Mays                 43    4                           2  1        1      
48   48  Lefty Gomez               38    3               1              2               
49   52  Dutch Leonard             35    3                  1              2            
50T  56T Ernie Lombardi            34    3                           2     1            
50T  47  Ed Williamson             34    3                     1        1     1         
52   55  Tony Mullane              33    4                           1           1  1  1
53   53  Fielder Jones             32    2         1           1                        
54   73T Dave Bancroft             30    3                              1  1  1         
55   54  Frank Chance              28    2         1                       1            
56   59  Rabbit Maranville         27    2         1                          1         
57   58  Gil Hodges                26    2                     1     1                  
58   56T Ed Cicotte                23    2               1                          1   
59   69T Virgil Trucks             21    2                           1        1         
60   60  Fred Dunlap               19    2                              1        1      
61  n/e  Luke Easter               18    1         1                                    
62   71T Hack Wilson               16    2                                 1           1
63   61  Chuck Klein               15    1                  1                           
64T  67T Herman Long               14    1                     1                        
64T  62T Red Schoendienst          14    1                     1                        
64T  64T Dizzy Trout               14    1                     1                        
67T  67T Artie Wilson              13    1                        1                     
67T  64T Bob Friend                13    1                        1                     
67T  62T Sam Leever                13    1                        1                     
70T  69T Bus Clarkson              12    1                           1                  
70T  64T Bobby Veach               12    1                           1                  
72T n/e  Buzz Arlett               10    1                                 1            
72T  71T Wilbur Cooper             10    1                                 1            
72T  73T Dom DiMaggio              10    1                                 1            
75   75  Curt Simmons               8    1                                       1      
76  n/e  George J. Burns            7    1                                          1   
77T n/e  Dick Bartell               6    1                                             1
77T n/e  Wally Berger               6    1                                             1
77T n/e  George Kell                6    1                                             1
Ballots Cast: 51

 

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 15, 2006 at 06:00 PM | 169 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   101. sunnyday2 Posted: May 23, 2006 at 05:09 PM (#2033315)
Might be fun for us to do a 15 man VC ballot covering all 200 names on their prelim list, then send them the results.

Maury Wills ahead of Joe Gordon. Roger Maris ahead of Rocky Colavito. Marty Marion ahead of Ken Boyer. Vada Pinson ahead of Dick Allen.

This is the Hall of FAME, after all, not the Hall of Merit or in Allen's case the Hall of the Infamous.
   102. DavidFoss Posted: May 23, 2006 at 05:17 PM (#2033318)
thus no Ross Barnes

Is Barnes even eligible? Do they waive the '10 year rule' for guys like him? Also, Caruthers is barely eligible. He needs his 14G in the OF in 1893 to get that tenth year in.
   103. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: May 23, 2006 at 05:57 PM (#2033350)
That Gil Hodges is 8 votes away from induction sickens me.
   104. OCF Posted: May 23, 2006 at 06:28 PM (#2033376)
I finally did the voter-to-voter cross-correlation table for the seriously backlog, low-consensus 1976 election. In what follows I've listed for each voter his highest two agreement scores and his lowest 2 agreement scores. Most login names have been abbreviated (shouldn't be a problem for those who grew up reading box short-form box scores.) Agreement scores are on a 0 to 100 scale; each voter's agreement with himself is 100 and a zero would mean no candidates in common out of the 15. And yes, we have a zero.

Adam Schafer    Daryn   73 yest    68   DrChlko  3 MkDnlsn  3
AJM             MBass   61 TomH    57   yest    17 kmagnus  8
Al Peterson     asiegel 48 JNewbrg 48   ASchafr 13 kmagnus 12
Andrew M        Sunydy2 65 favre   58   DrChlk  14 KJOK     7
andrew siegel   JNewbrg 61 DanG    61   DFoss   16 kmagnus 10
Ardo            CFluit  74 MBass   66   RPriske 20 kmagnus 17
Brent           CFluit  62 Tbreau  57   kmagnus 10 KJOK    10
Chris Cobb      CFluit  62 HMenkel 56   yest    18 kmagnus 15  
Chris Fluit     Ardo    74 JNewbrg 64   DanG    23 kmagnus 19
danb            rwagman 62 MkDnlsn 58   EricC   12 KJOK    10
DanG            RPriske 66 asiegel 61   DrChlko 16 MkDnlsn 16 
Daryn           ASchafr 73 yest    57   DLfrMN  12 PatW     4
David Foss      RWargo  58 HMenkel 56   asiegel 16 RPriske 16
Devin McCullen  JNewbrg 63 MBass   61   yest    11 kmagnus  6
DL from MN      OCF     57 HMenkel 55   MPrknsn  6 RickA    5
Dr
Chaleeko    KellySD 67 Tbreau  61   JimSp    6 ASchafr  3
EricC           JimSp   60 Ardo    59   kmagnus  8 jschmgl  7
Esteban Rivera  Sunydy2 64 MkDnlsn 60   JimSp    5 PatW     4
favre           Sunydy2 66 AndrewM 58   EricC   21 Brent   20
Howie Menckel   RobWood 66 favre   57   DrChlko 14 KellySD 13
James Newburg   CFluit  64 DMcCuln 63   yest    12 kmagnus  4
Jeff M          danb    52 rwagman 51   DLfrMN  16 KJOK    10
Jim Sp          EricC   60 RobWood 51   ERivera  5 RickA    3
jimd            TomH    63 MBass   59   kmagnus 12 DrChlko 12
Joe Dimino      HMenkel 56 CCobb   49   JMurphy 10 RWargo   6
John Murphy     Tbreau  61 danb    47   JDimino 10 MPrknsn  7
jschmeagol      MkDnlsn 64 danb    55   ASchafr 12 EricC    7
karlmagnus      Daryn   55 ERivera 53   JNewbrg  4 PatW     0
Kelly in SD     DrChlko 67 RickA   62   JimSp    8 PFelizN  8
Ken Fischer     CFluit  50 AJM     49   DrChlko 15 MkDnlsn 14
KJOK            TomH    50 DFoss   47   MkDnlsn  5 Sunydy2  3
Mark Donelson   Tbreau  71 jschmgl 64   KJOK     5 ASchafr  3
Max Parkinson   RickA   63 RWargo  62   PatW     5 MWebber  4
Michael Bass    TBgarth 67 Ardo    66   JDimino 17 kmagnus  9
Mike Webber     DanG    61 SWW     59   kmagnus  8 MPrknsn  4
OCF             Ardo    60 DLfrMN  57   JMurphy 15 kmagnus 13
Patrick W       TomH    65 AJM     54   ERivera  4 kmagnus  0
Pedro Feliz N
.  SWW     61 Daryn   56   Tbreau  13 KellySD  8
rawagman        danb    62 ERivera 54   PatW    18 DNfrMN  17
Rick A          MPrknsn 63 MkDnlsn 62   DLfrMN   5 JimSp    3
Rob Wood        TomH    69 HMenkel 66   MPrknsn 13 DrChlko 11
Ron Wargo       MPrknsn 62 DFoss   58   DLfrMN   8 JDimino  6
Rusty Priske    DanG    66 TrevorP 58   EricC   11 DLfrMN  11
Sean Gilman     KellySD 57 ERivera 55   KJOK    11 DLfrMN   9
Sunnyday2       favre   66 AndrewM 65   EricC   14 KJOK     3
SWW             PFelizN 61 MWebber 59   kmagnus 12 KJOK     7
Thane
/Bagarth   MBass   67 MPrknsn 60   RPriske 15 TrevorP 13
Tiboreau        MkDnlsn 71 DrChlko 61   KJOK     7 yest     7
TomH            RobWood 69 PatW    65   kmagnus 16 ERivera 16
Trevor P        RobWood 61 RPriske 58   TBgarth 13 EricC   11
yest            ASchafr 68 Daryn   57   Tbreau   7 PatW     4 
   105. jimd Posted: May 23, 2006 at 06:35 PM (#2033380)
That Gil Hodges is 8 votes away from induction sickens me.

Every player that has ever received more than 50% of the vote from the BBWAA but failed to get 75% has been eventually inducted by the Veteran's Committee. With only one exception.

I view Hodges induction to the HOF as inevitable.

By the same criterion, I view the inductions of Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Rich Gossage, and Bert Blyleven as now inevitable.

They won't be close to being the worst selections ever.
   106. sunnyday2 Posted: May 23, 2006 at 07:27 PM (#2033426)
I am fine with that, though Santo and Oliva would be preferred.
   107. yest Posted: May 23, 2006 at 07:48 PM (#2033442)
Adam Schafer Daryn 73 yest
Daryn ASchafr 73 yest 57

(:<0
   108. DL from MN Posted: May 23, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#2033446)
Remember that Hodges gets credit in these elections for his managerial career, not that it was anything special outside of 1969.

I'd go further with the idea. The Hall of Merit should do a ballot of the final grouping, write an executive summary of the top 10 finishers, publish it in the most mainstream fashion possible and send it to all the voters. The plaques are already written, it shouldn't be too hard to complete.
   109. Chris Fluit Posted: May 23, 2006 at 08:10 PM (#2033459)
Looks like Ardo and myself get the high score of 74, though Adam Schafer and Daryn's 73 is really close.
   110. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 23, 2006 at 08:14 PM (#2033466)
Does anyone really think that Joe Morgan will research anyone? Remember, he claimed in an ESPN chat recently that he doesn't need to read baseball books because he learned everything about baseball that he'll ever need to know on the field. I'm assuming that includes baseball encyclopedias.

I think Joe's mindset is probably the norm, Eric. It made sense to e-mail our views about certain players to the Negro League Committee since they were a scholarly group, but I'm afraid the Vets' Committee wouldn't even deign to look at it.

Nice work, OCF! I find it amusing that Joe and I are almost polar opposites ballot-wise. It wasn't that way "years" ago.
   111. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 23, 2006 at 08:15 PM (#2033468)
My guess is they looked at NHBA. James had Caruthers ranked in his top 100. They have guys that James ranked but we have passed on like Virgil Trucks and Dummy Hoy. James also ignored anything that happened before 1876, thus no Ross Barnes or Joe Start in his rankings.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Dan.
   112. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: May 24, 2006 at 04:11 AM (#2034876)
I like DL's Idea, maybe it could be a thinkfactory article or something. Could it be sent to Prospectus before they run their annual JAWS article? How about THT?

I must say that while Dawson, Rice, and hodges are not the worst selectiosn ever, it makes me glad the HOM exists. I am against all the induction of all three, not being the worst selection ever is setting the bar REALLY low. I guess all but Hodges would be better than Sutter, however.
   113. DavidFoss Posted: May 24, 2006 at 04:33 AM (#2035011)
I reread the link. Looks like the 'Final 200' gets filtered down to a final 25-30 before ballots go out for a final vote. At that point, the

living Hall of Fame members (61), Ford C. Frick Award recipients (14), J.G. Taylor Spink Award recipients (8) and former Veterans Committee members whose terms have not yet expired (1), will cast their votes in January 2007


and a 75% majority is required. Tough to do (especially for anyone the living players don't remember). Almost looks like they'll come up empty again, but it'd be fun to make up a final 25-30 list.

Who is Mr. 'Not Yet Expired'? Anyone know?
   114. EricC Posted: May 24, 2006 at 10:35 AM (#2035122)
By the HoF's own de facto standards, which include dominance of exact contemporaries at the same position, as well as some awareness of quality of competition in different leagues, Gil Hodges is well-qualified for the HoF. Why then, would anybody be bothered by his eventual induction?
   115. TomH Posted: May 24, 2006 at 12:12 PM (#2035136)
Thanks, OCF. I expect fanmail from my 5 good-match friends, and obviously I need to work harder at making enemies. Altho Chris Fluit has me beat hands down if you compile some type of "composite agreement index".
   116. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: May 24, 2006 at 12:16 PM (#2035137)
I would be bothered by Gil Hodges induction because Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Keith Hernandez, Steve Garvey, Mickey Vernon, Boog Powell, Jack Fournier, Ed Konetchy, and possibly Norm Cash (amongst others) were all superior players, Hodges just played for a popular team and died early. I guess I am still naive enough to think that the standards for the HOM should be the same as those of the HOF since we will induct a similar number of players.
   117. sunnyday2 Posted: May 24, 2006 at 12:46 PM (#2035143)
Hodges is clearly not the best candidate that the VC could elect. Neither is Tony Oliva by a long shot. Santo is a pretty good choice. Old timers like Bill Dahlen who have absolutely no chance whatsoever (which means slightly less chance than Hodges, Oliva and Santo) would be a good choice.

Still Hodges would be approx. a Grade C (maybe C-, he is not a D) HoFer. It is not the fault of the current VC that G. Kelly, J. Bottomley et al are already in there. So saying Hodges would not be the worst choice is very very faint praise indeed. I just can't get too worked up in opposition to Hodges. Re. the HoF, I mean, who cares?

But I still think they will elect no one. What exactly has Hodges done in the past 2 years to get more votes?
   118. Daryn Posted: May 24, 2006 at 12:50 PM (#2035146)
Thanks, OCF. So Pat W and karlmagnus have noone in common on their ballots?
   119. Daryn Posted: May 24, 2006 at 12:53 PM (#2035149)
Nevermind, I see you have already answered that question.
   120. Howie Menckel Posted: May 24, 2006 at 12:55 PM (#2035152)
I like that Rob Wood guy's way of thinking!
   121. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 24, 2006 at 01:16 PM (#2035161)
Hodges just played for a popular team and died early. I guess I am still naive enough to think that the standards for the HOM should be the same as those of the HOF since we will induct a similar number of players.

Don't forget he's getting "Amazin'" votes, too. It's not all playing career when it comes to the HOF electorate.

Not that I disgaree with your overall point, Mark.

I like that Rob Wood guy's way of thinking!

Figures.
   122. rawagman Posted: May 24, 2006 at 01:50 PM (#2035176)
I beleive that VC votes are supposed to take a person's complete contribution to baseball into account - something which naturally adds to the candidacies of guys like Santo and Hodges and others(?) - things that we don't take into account in the HoM project.
   123. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 24, 2006 at 02:01 PM (#2035187)
Who is good friend, and who is a bad neighbor? Using OCF's chart above here's the voters have the most friends and the most "enemies" among the electorate

Everybody's Friends
-------------------
Tom H
Michael Bass
Mark Donelson
James Newburg
Chris Fluit

All five of those guys appeared five times in the best friend columns of OCF's chart.

Not so many people's friends
-----------------------------
Karlmagnus (17)
KJOK (9)
DL from MN (7)
Dr. Chaleeko!!! (7)
Patrick W (6)
EricC (6)

Color me impressed. Karl outdoes himself again! ; )
   124. DavidFoss Posted: May 24, 2006 at 02:18 PM (#2035204)
Who is good friend, and who is a bad neighbor?

Its multidimensional too. My two best friends (Howie Menckel & Ron Wargo) are on opposite ends of the spectrum when compared to Joe Dimino. Howie is his best friend while Ron has the least agreement with Joe.
   125. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 24, 2006 at 03:21 PM (#2035246)
Yes, and what happens when bad neighbors clash? Me and Karl have a pretty wide disagreement: the irresistible force versus the immovable object?

Or maybe it's the irritable force and the immovable object?

Or the irritating force and the immovable object?

Better quite while I'm behind....
   126. DanG Posted: May 24, 2006 at 03:30 PM (#2035253)
Yes, and what happens when bad neighbors clash? Me and Karl have a pretty wide disagreement: the irresistible force versus the immovable object?
'F R A G M E N T A T I O N ! ! !' 


Nobody is safe....
   127. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 24, 2006 at 03:41 PM (#2035261)
Also, the following voters were Switzerlandish, showing no enimity, but also showing a certain cool aloofness by being no one's best friend.

Al Peterson
Jeff M
Jimd
Ken Fischer
Sean Gilman

Or maybe they're just shy?
   128. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 24, 2006 at 03:59 PM (#2035275)
?
   129. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 24, 2006 at 04:06 PM (#2035283)
I corrected it, Eric.
   130. TomH Posted: May 24, 2006 at 04:31 PM (#2035310)
Everybody's Friends
Tom H

Not so many people's friends
KJOK (9)

--
Hmm... I am KJOK's best friend, and I have friends, but KJOK has enemies. I surmise KJOK is the uberME, unadulterated and uninhibited.

Either that or I am my own grandpa.
   131. sunnyday2 Posted: May 24, 2006 at 04:34 PM (#2035314)
Lots of head to heads that I never had to consider before (in the HoM project, anyway), so this is kinda off the top, but here is a sample HoM-style (cooking?, no) ballot among the VC's top 200.

1. Bill Dahlen
2. Ron Santo
3. Dick Allen
4. Bob Caruthers
5. Larry Doyle
6. Jack Glasscock
7. Sherry Magee
8. Heinie Groh
9. Pete Browning
10. Harry Stovey
11. Joe Gordon
12. Minnie Minoso
13. Gavvy Cravath
14. Bill Freehan
15. Stan Hack

Off Ballot, will move up soon I'm sure ;-)

16. Elston Howard
17. Frank Howard
18. Vern Stephens
19. Wally Berger
20. Tony Mullane
21. George Van Haltren
22. Ken Boyer
23. Mike Tiernan
24. Wes Ferrell
25. Jimmy Ryan
   132. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 24, 2006 at 05:02 PM (#2035341)
Either that or I am my own grandpa.

But I'll still be the only Grandma :-D
   133. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 24, 2006 at 05:11 PM (#2035352)
Sunny2,

A fun idea, here's my whack at it.

1. Dick Allen
2. Ron Santo
3. Bill Dahlen
4. Heinie, Groh
5. Joe Torre
6. Stan Hack
7. Ted Simmons
8. Bucky Walters
9. Wes Ferrell
10. Bob Caruthers
11. Tony Mullane
12. Billy Pierce
13. Wilbur Cooper
14. Sherry Magee
15. Bill Freehan

16. Pete Browning
17. Sal Bando
18. Jack Glasscock
19. George Van Haltren
20. Elston Howard
21. Harry Stovey
22. Larry Doyle
23. Jimmy Ryan
24. Ken Boyer
25. Jimmy Wynn
26. Gavy Cravath

BONUS! Managers and schtuff

I actually think that we stand a very good chance of electing 1 or more manager/executives without electing a player. I really, truly hope that the Vets aren't stupid enough to vote for W. Bush out of a misguided sense of patriotism. Or that the White House doesn't apply pressure on them to do so (though I can't see why they would since the mid-term elections will have already passed and Bush is a lame duck---maybe it's his one, great shot?).

1. Whitey Herzog
2. Marvin Miller (especially intriguing with more post-1970 HOFs than last time)
3. Billy Southworth
4. Dick Williams

I might also vote for Lee Weyer, Doug Harvey, or Babe Pinelli if I knew more about whether they were truly outstanding umps or merely well known. After all, since the umps are never wrong, how can one be better than another?

Another I would consider is Harry Dalton. I think he was the brains behind the Orioles and Brewers winners of the 1970s and early 1980s. But I'd need more info first.
   134. sunnyday2 Posted: May 24, 2006 at 06:04 PM (#2035420)
I somehow didn't get Joe Torre into my consideration set. He would be in my top 15 worst case, maybe top 10. As for the executives and etc. (stifles yawn).
   135. OCF Posted: May 24, 2006 at 06:30 PM (#2035444)
[TomH] Thanks, OCF. I expect fanmail from my 5 good-match friends, and obviously I need to work harder at making enemies. Altho Chris Fluit has me beat hands down if you compile some type of "composite agreement index".

That's actually easy enough to do - for each voter, just average the agreement index over all other voters. This is essentially one portion (the linear portion) of consensus scores, so the resulting rankings will resemble consensus score rankings. (There is a nonlinear portion of consensus scores, just to mess things up.)

The grand average over everyone is 33 - which is quite low. This was a backlog-fragmentation year. I would add that the last time I did this, I got several scores in the 80's. Not this time.

Michael Bass 42
Chris Fluit 41
Rob Wood 39
Howie Menckel 39
Ardo 39
TomH 38
andrew siegel 37
...
Sean Gilman 34 (I'm going to list everyone in Dr. Chaleeko's post #127)
Ken Fischer 34
...
Jeff M 33
...
jimd 33
...
Al Peterson 31
...
Dr. Chaleeko 30
Patrick W 29
DL from MN 28
Joe Dimino 28
Jim Sp 26
yest 26
EricC 24
karlmagnus 22
KJOK 22

David Foss called it multidimensional. Correctly identified. Here's the desrciption. Consider every vote to be vector in an N-dimensional Euclidean space, where N is at least as large as the number of candidates receiving votes. The component of this vector in the direction of a particular candidate is the number of points awarded to that candidate. Note that all of these vectors have the same magnitude, making normalization easy. The voter-to-voter aggreement score is the inner product of the vote vectors, suitably normalized. (If I were to but back in the 100's on the main diagonal, I would have a symmetric positive definite 51 by 51 matrix.)
   136. jimd Posted: May 24, 2006 at 06:44 PM (#2035467)
Also, the following voters were Switzerlandish, showing no enimity, but also showing a certain cool aloofness by being no one's best friend.

Al Peterson
Jeff M
Jimd
Ken Fischer
Sean Gilman

Or maybe they're just shy?


Well, I'm not shy, at least about posting ;-)
   137. jimd Posted: May 24, 2006 at 06:52 PM (#2035482)
This "analysis" divides the electorate into "clusters" based on the "best-friend" relationship. There are 12 clusters, where A is best-friend of B and B is best-friend of A. The other voters attach themselves to a cluster, such as A-B, either directly by having either A or B as a best-friend, or indirectly by having a best friend that is already attached to the cluster.

Two of the clusters are sizeable, 11 and 8, and the other ten clusters are of size 2-4.

11
Chris Fluit - Ardo 74, James Newburg 64, Brent 62, Chris Cobb 62, Ken Fischer 50
- James Newburg - Devin McCullen 63, andrew siegel 61
- andrew siegel - Al Peterson 48
Ardo - Chris Fluit 74, OCF 60
- OCF - DL from MN 57

4
Adam Schafer - Daryn 73, yest 68
Daryn - Adam Schafer 73, karlmagnus 55

4
Mark Donelson - Tiboreau 71, jschmeagol 64
Tiboreau - Mark Donelson 71, John Murphy 61

8
TomH - Rob Wood 69, Patrick W 65, jimd 63, KJOK 50
Rob Wood - TomH 69, Howie Menckel 66, Trevor P 61
- Howie Menckel - Joe Dimino 56

3
Michael Bass - Thane of Bagarth 67, AJM 61
Thane of Bagarth - Michael Bass 67

4
Sunnyday2 - favre 66, Andrew M 65, Esteban Rivera 64
favre - Sunnyday2 66

3
DanG - Rusty Priske 66, Mike Webber 61
Rusty Priske - DanG 66

4
Rick A - Max Parkinson 63
Max Parkinson - Rick A 63, Ron Wargo 62
- Ron Wargo - David Foss 58

3
danb - rawagman 62, Jeff M 52
rawagman - danb 62

2
Pedro Feliz N. - SWW 61
SWW - Pedro Feliz N. 61

2
EricC - Jim Sp 60
Jim SP - EricC 60
   138. jimd Posted: May 24, 2006 at 07:01 PM (#2035492)
Oops. The missing 13th cluster is:

3
Dr. Chaleeko - Kelly in SD 67
Kelly in SD - Dr. Chaleeko 67, Sean Gilman 57
   139. Mike Emeigh Posted: May 24, 2006 at 07:41 PM (#2035553)
Doug Harvey was an outstanding umpire, and deserves to be in the HOF. He expected, and commanded, respect without calling attention to himself. He called a strike zone that was as close to the textbook definition as I have ever seen, did it consistently, and did it firmly.

Lee Weyer and Babe Pinelli are a cut behind, largely because both were known to call a strike zone that was, shall we say, slightly larger than the rulebook requires. Dale Mitchell always felt that the pitch he took to end Larsen's perfect game in the '56 WS was high - and he might have had a case, from what I've seen. Ron Luciano once said, of Weyer, that "he gave the pitcher both dugouts".

-- MWE
   140. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 24, 2006 at 07:45 PM (#2035562)
Oops. The missing 13th cluster....

We are the HOM's Ishmaelites! The missing 13th tribe.
   141. Paul Wendt Posted: May 24, 2006 at 08:15 PM (#2035607)
Also, the following voters were Switzerlandish, showing no enimity, but also showing a certain cool aloofness by being no one's best friend.

Al Peterson
Jeff M
Jimd
Ken Fischer
Sean Gilman


Actually, Al Peterson has nothing but enemies.
(The count of most best friends may have missed Newburg in column two.)

--
David Foss called it multidimensional. Correctly identified. Here's the desrciption. Consider every vote to be vector in an N-dimensional Euclidean space, where N is at least as large as the number of candidates receiving votes. The component of this vector in the direction of a particular candidate is the number of points awarded to that candidate. Note that all of these vectors have the same magnitude, making normalization easy. The voter-to-voter aggreement score is the inner product of the vote vectors, suitably normalized. (If I were to but back in the 100's on the main diagonal, I would have a symmetric positive definite 51 by 51 matrix.)

It's more challenging to measure the distances between candidates.
   142. Sean Gilman Posted: May 24, 2006 at 08:16 PM (#2035609)
I'm no one's friend, no one's enemy and even my cluster is lost. . . .

{sigh}
   143. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 24, 2006 at 08:30 PM (#2035623)
We are the HOM's Ishmaelites! The missing 13th tribe.

I thought Ed Koch said that the missing tribe went to Ireland. At least that's what he always stated at the St. Patrick's Day Parade. ;-)
   144. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 24, 2006 at 08:31 PM (#2035626)
Lee Weyer and Babe Pinelli are a cut behind, largely because both were known to call a strike zone that was, shall we say, slightly larger than the rulebook requires. Dale Mitchell always felt that the pitch he took to end Larsen's perfect game in the '56 WS was high - and he might have had a case, from what I've seen.

Wasn't that Pinelli's last game? Must have been in a rush.
   145. Paul Wendt Posted: May 24, 2006 at 08:36 PM (#2035631)
Who is Mr. 'Not Yet Expired'? Anyone know?

John McHale.
Ken Coleman expired in another way.

Many of you wil be interested to read

Doug Pappas, "The 2003 Hall of Fame Veterans Committee Vote" in Outside the Lines 9.1, the SABR Business of Baseball Cmte newsletter for winter 2003 (a perfectly regular quarterly). This is three fine pages devoted to the "composite ballot" for non-players, all three stages. Maybe on the net?

This much I am willing to sketch:

Historical Overview Committee (10, named) prelim nominations (60, named):
"solid" spanning 1880s to 1990s. "The only real clinker is George W. Bush"

BBWAA Screening Committee (two each club) final nominations (15, named):
now who do I remember talkin' about?
no other explanation for all 15 active 1976 or later

Voters (85 eligible, 79 ballots cast) tally (Harvey over 60%, others under 50%):

Doug Harvey
"Anyone who umpired for more than 30 years, earning so much respect that the players nicknamed him 'God' has my vote."

Marvin Miller is the other obviously qualified candidate.

Then O'Malley, Bavasi, or both depending on how you divide the credit for the Dodgers.

The system needs to be overhauled.
   146. OCF Posted: May 24, 2006 at 08:55 PM (#2035648)
I started with with jimd's groups in post #137-138. I've assigned each group a letter, in the order jimd listed them in. For the table below I've reported three things about each group. The first number is the average agreement score within that group. The second number is the average over that group of the average agreement score for each voter with the entire electorate. On the second line, I've listed the pair with the lowest agreement score within that group (admittedly, that's not very interesting for two-member groups).

As it turns out, the two larger groups (group A and group D) don't hold together very well under this level of scrutiny.

Group A: 43 35
* Chris Cobb-Al Peterson 25

Group B: 58 28
* Adam Schafer-karlmagnus 46

Group C: 55 34
* John Murphy-Mark Donelson 40

Group D: 44 33
* jimd-KJOK 17

Group E: 57 37
* AJM-Thane of Bagarth 43

Group F: 58 36
* Andrew M-Esteban Rivera 43

Group G: 58 34
* Mike Webber-Rusty Priske 46

Group H: 52 32
* David Foss-Rick A 33

Group I: 55 34
* danb-Jeff M 51

Group J: 61 36
* Pedro Feliz Navidad-SWW 61

Group K: 60 25
* Eric C-Jim Sp 60
   147. OCF Posted: May 24, 2006 at 10:08 PM (#2035735)
Ack! I left the lost tribe still wandering.

Group L: 58 32
* Dr. Chaleeko-Sean Gilman 50
   148. jimd Posted: May 25, 2006 at 12:01 AM (#2035965)
Group D: 44 33
* jimd-KJOK 17


IOW, while KJOK and I both look at TomH's ballot and say "His is closer to mine than anybody else is", we do so for almost mutually exclusive reasons.
   149. OCF Posted: May 25, 2006 at 12:37 AM (#2036082)
jimd         TomH         KJOK
1.   Sewell       Gordon       Bresnahan
2.   Gordon       Sewell       McGraw
3.   F
Jones     Walters      Chance
4.   Van Haltren  Brown        Beckley
5.   Childs       Beckley      Trouppe
6.   Minoso       McGraw       Sewell
7.   Boyer        Boyer        Taylor
8.   Sisler       Van Haltren  Johnson
9.   Veach        Pierce       Redding
10.  Dunlap       Minoso       Pierce
11.  Moore        Chance       Elliott
12.  Maranville   Johnson      Bancroft
13.  Walters      Childs       Boyer
14.  Howard       Kiner        C
Jones
15.  Redding      Redding      Mullane 


I'll let you analyze that. For my sake, I think I understand the rationale for KJOK's ballots pretty well. We agree that Sewell, Pierce and Elliott belong on the ballot. I understand why he's voting for McGraw, Chance, and Bresnahan - but I have an additional playing time consideration that keeps me from voting for them myself. And yet: all KJOK and I can manage for an agreement score is 37. My agreement with TomH is much higher at 52.
   150. jimd Posted: May 25, 2006 at 12:37 AM (#2036083)
Common candidates:
jimd     TomH     KJOK    
----     ----     ----
SEWELL   Gordon   
Gordon   SEWELL   McGraw
         Walters  Chance
VanHal            Beckley
Childs   Beckley
Minoso   McGraw   SEWELL
BOYER    BOYER    
         VanHal   BJohnsn
         Pierce   REDDING
         Minoso   Pierce
         Chance
         BJohnsn
Walters  Childs   BOYER

REDDING  REDDING 

We each share 8 with TomH but only 3 with each other.
   151. TomH Posted: May 25, 2006 at 01:23 PM (#2036399)
Must... draw.. more voters into my net.....

Actually, I'm gonna be more scarce than normal between now and after July 4th, merely general busy-ness plus vacation. But looking at the upcoming eligibles, I'm pretty confident this group won't need any bonus insight in finding solid HoM electees bewteen now and Labor Day, actually.

I do expect passionate argument on Mazersoki; luvved by defensive-minded voters and WARP, despised by offense and Win Shares. And then we get Little Louis as an interesting comp one ballot later.

I am convinced Hoyt Wilhelm is underappreciated by the masses, but I'm also convinced this group will uncover and recognize his greatness.
   152. rawagman Posted: May 25, 2006 at 02:08 PM (#2036431)
He was appreciated enough to get into Cooperstown - not that that stick always means everything, but it means he had enough fame/appreciation in the real world.
   153. DL from MN Posted: May 25, 2006 at 02:38 PM (#2036458)
I already plugged Mazeroski into my spreadsheet and he came up right on top of Rizzuto. It makes me feel good about the amount of war credit I gave Rizzuto.
   154. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 25, 2006 at 02:48 PM (#2036463)
I've got Maz as like the 40th best 2B ever. He's got a TON of fielding value, but man, there's not much else going on there. And I've been on record that Aparicio is getting into the HOM as quickly as W. Bush is if I have anything to say about it...oh wait, wrong electoral broadside!
   155. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 25, 2006 at 03:16 PM (#2036483)
And I've been on record that Aparicio is getting into the HOM as quickly as W. Bush is if I have anything to say about it...oh wait, wrong electoral broadside!

Speaking as apolitically as possible, the President has about the same credentials as a hundred other ML executives. Certainly not a member of the Andrew Freedman destructive group of management-level baseball types, but nothing at all to distinguish himself from the pack. IOW, he has zero chance at being elected to the executive branch of the HOM.

As for Aparicio and Mazeroski, I don't see them appearing on my ballot. Wills might have a chance, though. At the very least, he packed much more quality in his shorter career than the other two (and started his ML career later, to boot). I certainly could not understand Aparicio, but not Wills.
   156. DavidFoss Posted: May 25, 2006 at 03:35 PM (#2036502)
Its a bit of a hoot to have an owner go on to be president of the US and I'm sure that will be a trivial question 100 years from now. Perhaps even a panel of an exhibit somewhere in Cooperstown.

I think Bush was put on the list as a PR stunt. I hope he's never inducted as one as well.
   157. DavidFoss Posted: May 25, 2006 at 03:39 PM (#2036505)
Living in So. California but not being from there so I can be objective, I can attest to the very high regard that Maury Wills has here in the local media. Stealing 104 bases was not a small feat, and before sabermetrics, base-stealing was seen in a much higher regard.
   158. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: May 25, 2006 at 04:20 PM (#2036545)
was the end of wills' career foreshortned? Or "complicated"?
   159. DavidFoss Posted: May 25, 2006 at 05:55 PM (#2036717)
was the end of wills' career foreshortned? Or "complicated"?

I'm not sure I know what you are getting at. I know his managerial career was very colorful... checking...

November 4, 1966: Maury Wills leaves the Los Angeles club touring Japan, complaining that his injured right knee needs immediate treatment in the U.S. On December 1, the Dodgers will send Maury to Pittsburgh.


Ah... there's probably a biography-book chapter written (or to be written) about that. The Dodgers ended up trading to get him back (and overpaying for him as well) a few years later which explains why the fans had forgiven him.

Wills' career was short because he was a very late bloomer at a position/playing-style that favors youth.

Anyhow, he's not the type of player I vote for, just rationalizing why he's overrated by some.
   160. DL from MN Posted: May 25, 2006 at 06:15 PM (#2036783)
I've often thought George W might take over from Selig as baseball commissioner when he's done in Washington. I think Bush would make a better baseball commissioner than a US president.
   161. sunnyday2 Posted: May 25, 2006 at 09:15 PM (#2037205)
How about W as baseball commiss, and Jeb as NFL commiss. The latter is being seriously discussed, I'm told. They've even hired Katherine Harris to count the votes.
   162. jingoist Posted: May 25, 2006 at 09:55 PM (#2037254)
Sunnyday2.....while you're going done that lane, why not put 41 and Barbara Bush on the veterans commitee.
They probably both saw Bill Dahlen and Heine Groh play.

Frankly, baseball's owners want a commissioner who will deliberate every detail of a decision.
W couldn't be bothered/is incapable of such mental gymnastics; he'd delegate all such decisions or else make none.
   163. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 25, 2006 at 10:51 PM (#2037313)
...and the food now gets thrown by the Right in how many seconds?

(sigh)
   164. TomH Posted: May 26, 2006 at 12:25 AM (#2037463)
I hit myself with a tomato!
   165. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 26, 2006 at 12:47 AM (#2037500)
:-D
   166. Howie Menckel Posted: May 26, 2006 at 01:30 AM (#2037583)
Re Bill James in NHBA on Bagwell: "Pass."
   167. yest Posted: May 26, 2006 at 03:45 AM (#2037804)
I think Bush was put on the list as a PR stunt. I hope he's never inducted as one as well.

why not they already inducted Manley

Doug Harvey was an outstanding umpire, and deserves to be in the HOF. He expected, and commanded, respect without calling attention to himself. He called a strike zone that was as close to the textbook definition as I have ever seen, did it consistently, and did it firmly.

I always thought that all the living players that played under an umpire should vote on them
   168. Carlos Lugo Posted: May 26, 2006 at 06:47 PM (#2038418)
Brown's real nickname in spanish was "El Hombre Ese"
   169. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 26, 2006 at 07:41 PM (#2038487)
Brown's real nickname in spanish was "El Hombre Ese"

I have also seen it stated as "El Hombre," Carlos. Is there actually a definitive version?
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