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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, May 22, 2006

1977 Ballot

Prominent newbies: Ernie Banks and Jim Bunning.

Top-ten returnees: George Sisler, José Méndez, Minnie Minoso, Cannonball Dick Redding . Joe Sewell , Ralph Kiner, Dobie Moore, and Hugh Duffy.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 22, 2006 at 12:11 PM | 110 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   101. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 30, 2006 at 05:24 PM (#2043906)
That's dedication!

No, that's a Hall of Merit voter! :-)
   102. Max Parkinson Posted: May 30, 2006 at 10:33 PM (#2044319)
1977 ballot: (MP HoMers in bold)

1. Ernie Banks

One can quibble with how much he played short, vs. his career as an average 1st baseman, but he’s the definite number one in this election.

2. Dick Redding

One of the 3 MP HoM but not HoM pitchers in my consideration list (Redding, Mendez and Waddell), and I’m convinced that he had the best career of all of them.

3. Pete Browning

I am now convinced that he would have been one of (if not THE) the best hitters in the ‘80s even if there was only one league. I have therefore minimized his AA penalty.

4. Jose Mendez

I’ve reconsidered him – he had been in the twenties before. A truly great peak pitcher.

5. George Sisler

George’s case was made in from ’17 to ‘22 – anything he did afterwards adds or subtracts little. Alas, dear George (and yest), I fear it may be a few more years.

6. Dobie Moore

Incredible Peak. I assume that he would have been the best SS in baseball for nearly a decade, were he allowed to play.

7. Charley Jones

I’ve been giving him credit for his “lost” years due to blacklisting, and he vaults up the list.

8. Gavvy Cravath

Another adjustment. Was the best RF in the game for a good 6 year stretch, with MVP-calibre seasons thrown in. I have resisted adding too much credit for MiL performance, but I couldn’t keep him from the ballot any longer.

9. Rube Waddell

Welcome back to the ballot. Love me those punches, Rube.

10. John McGraw

If we were factoring in managerial success, he would have been in this hall as early as the ‘Coop. Alas, it’s looking tough for him here on playing alone. Not for me, though.

11. Joe Sewell
12. Dizzy Dean

Dean moved up for me when I realized that I was underrating peaks in pitchers. When Sandy Koufax can’t sniff my ballot, something’s wrong. The changes I incorporated helped Dean as well as Mendez.

13. (N)Ed Williamson
14. Ben Taylor

He’d slide nicely in the 1B void.

15. Jim Bunning




16-20. Keller, Minoso, Burns, Veach, Pierce
21-25. Walters, Lazzeri, Bancroft, Duffy, Konetchy
26-30. B. Johnson, Trouppe, Cuyler, Childs, Youngs
31-35. Klein, Monroe, Tiernan, Kiner, Hooper
36-40. F. Jones, Traynor, Shocker, Boyer, Bradley
41-45. Roush, Cicotte, Howard, Leach, Chance
46-50. Griffin, Ryan, R. Thomas, Schang, Beckley

Previous Top 10s:
Beckley is 50.

GVH is not in the top 100.
   103. Ardo Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:28 PM (#2044388)
Max, GVH is not in your top 100??! When you have Duffy #23 and Ryan in your top 50? I dislike GVH as an HoM candidate too, but methinks you are being too severe.
   104. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:35 PM (#2044407)
Better late than never - actually was working on running pitchers through the new system all day. Will post some results of that once I've got them all covered. Here's the ballot:

1. Ernie Banks SS (n/e) - I know he's been compared to Sisler, but I don't see it, other than that they both started strong and didn't have a great second act. But Banks hit a much higher peak, and was better in his decline phase. WARP1 doesn't have them as close 122.9-85.7. WS has it 332-292 (though that narrows when you adjust for schedule). I see a significant gap.
2. Jake Beckley 1B (1) - A smidge below Rafael Palmeiro, they were basically the same player, though Palmeiro was a little bit better with the stick, 1B was much tougher in Beckley's day. The Ted Lyons, Red Faber or Red Ruffing of 1B. There's just so much career value here. Too much to ignore.
3. Gavy Cravath RF (2) - Either he was a freak of nature, or there's a lot missing. I vote for the latter. Check out his thread for deeper discussion of the specifics, including a great analysis from Gadfly. He's the kind of guy we were hoping to catch when we started this project.
4. Jim Bunning SP (n/e) - The best pitcher on the ballot. My system really likes Billy Pierce, and shows Bunning solidly ahead - he pulls away on his peak.
5. Luke Easter 1B (3) - I realize there is a lot of projecting going on here, but I think this is fair, as those ahead of him could reasonably be ranked ahead of Easter even with the extensive projections. I see him as extremely similar to Cravath, and he really did mash from 1937-54.
6. Billy Pierce SP (4) - What's not to like. He played for good teams, and behind good defenses, but he also faced the toughest opposition as was custom for an ace in his era. A forgotten star historically. I could see Mike Mussina ending up like Pierce historically. He's first among the eligibles in RSAR (using DERA and Translated IP). And that's using a fairly high replacement level, of .404 WPct.
7. Ralph Kiner LF (5) - Was Harmon Killebrew a Hall of Famer through 1968? Reggie through 1978? How about Albert Belle? He should be. All are comparable to Kiner, the Albert Belle of the late 1940s and early 1950s. I'm not normally a peak guy, but his peak is astronomical. I'm not convinced his D was as bad as some say either. His defensive WS numbers aren't terrible.
8. Charley Jones LF (6) - The Albert Belle/Ralph Kiner of the early NL - can you tell I like this type of player?
9. George Van Haltren CF (8) - He could rank anywhere from 1 to 19, very tough to evaluate. Placing him in the middle :-)
10. Elston Howard C (9) - I wouldn't have expected him to be this high. One of the things I love about working on this is that you get to take a look at a guy like Howard and realize he was a much better player than you ever realized. Schang, Dickey, Berra, Howard, Munson, Posada. Everyone talks about CF in Yankee Stadium, but behind the plate has a pretty solid history there too.
11. Tommy Bridges SP (17) - Unspectacular peak, but a lot of career value. War credit helps nudge him above Trout and Leonard. He could obviously still pitch when he left for the war, and was still good when he returned for a short time. I give him 2 years of credit at his 1941-43 level.
12. Nellie Fox 2B (10) - Very good peak. Great defense. Relatively long career at a key defensive position. I'm a big fan of this kind of player.
13. Dave Bancroft SS (11) - Inexplicably dropped off my consideration set. Upon further review, very similar to Rizzuto and Fox. I like him better than Sewell career wise. While Sewell had the better peak, Bancroft's is nothing to sneeze at, 4 WARP1's 9.4+, with a high of 11.5 in 1921, as the Giants won it all.
14. Tommy Leach 3B/CF (13) - It is so easy to underrate the guys that do everything well and nothing spectacularly.
15. Joe Sewell SS/3B (14) - Very glad he wasn't rushed in. However, after comparing him to Bancroft and Rizzuto, I realize I've been underrating him. Major jump this week.
   105. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:38 PM (#2044414)
Not sure where my first shot at this landed . . . best of the rest.

16. Minnie Minoso LF (15) - Still not sure what to make of his extra credit. I can't see him being lower than this. Career track somewhat similar to Will Clark. Great player from the start of his career, very good player for the rest, and career ends rather early. Those guys tend to be underrated.
17. Wally Schang C (16) - Looking over WARP for catchers with Howard coming on the ballot, he's way ahead of everyone else that's eligible. I didn't realize that. I wonder if one of the recalcs bumped him.
18. Burleigh Grimes SP (38) - Like Walters, faced pretty steep competition (.520 RSI), so his 256-226 RSI and 107 ERA+ understates his record somewhat. I see him as Shocker +1500 innings of replacement level pitching. I wouldn't be against his election at this point - his hitting puts him over the top. Did very well with my re-tooled system.
19. Phil Rizzuto SS (18) - War credit has him right about 300 WS and 95 WARP, great defensive SS and hurt by his park enormously. After a deeper look that included comparing Rizzuto to other shortstops with their age 25-27 seasons missing, I think Bancroft and Sewell deserve to rank ahead of the Scooter.
20. Dobie Moore SS (19) - Great peak, short career, even with military team credit. Mike Webber's list that showed the age 21-24 record of players with similar performance from age 25-31 as Moore doesn't convince me that he should get a lot of credit for those years, but I do think he should get credit for about 50 or so WS for those years.
21. Ken Boyer 3B (20) - Very good player. I like him better than Elliott, better peak, a little more career. Elliott was a better hitter, but Boyer was a great fielder, which was more enough to make up for the hitting.
22. Vern Stephens SS (21) - I love shortstops that can hit like outfielders and play above average defense, call me crazy :-) Better than Doerr IMO.
23. Dutch Leonard SP (22) - Pretty underrated when you look at his W-L record. Prospectus loves him, and Win Shares likes him a lot. A ton of career value and the 4th most saves of any pitcher in my consideration set. Wasn't able to get to him in my recalibrated system this week, so I'm leaving him unchanged. Could go up or down next week.
24. Bucky Walters SP (24) - According to RSI he pitched against amazingly tough competition, and pitched well against it. He was a great hitter (for a pitcher) too, which further understates his record. His record is similar to Ferrell's (201-157 vs. 190-131), longer career though not quite the quality - on the surface. Ferrell was a better hitter, but he doesn't get nearly the edge that he does over other pitchers. And when you throw in a MOWP of .526 vs. .497, it makes a close call. Nonetheless, I'm dropping him some this week. I revised my system a bit, and he didn't do as well. I was probably overrating his peak.
25. Virgil Trucks SP (12) - I urge everyone to take a closer look at him. We've got a hidden gem here, I didn't even notice it until I threw his numbers in my spreadsheet. I give him two full years of war credit for 1944-45, at an average of his 1942-43-46 level (after adjusting 1943 down a smidge for the war). He had some peak (I have him equivalent to Pierce and Plank on my 'peak' score, would have won the 1953 AL Cy Young if it existed) and there's a lot of career value here once you give him a couple of 15-11 years for the war. That would be enough to at least get him looked at by everyone. But the two missing years put him only in the 170s in wins, instead of the 200s, so he slips off the radar completely. Take a look at him.
26. Bob Johnson LF (25) - After looking at Colavito, I finally realized I had him too low. One powerful hitter. I really don't see how Sisler could be ranked ahead of Indian Bob.
27. Bill Monroe 2B (26) - Been on my ballot forever, haven't been convinced that this is a mistake.
28. Ernie Lombardi C (27) - I was convinced that his OPS+ overstates his offense due to the DPs, and his lack of peak somewhat dilutes the impact. However, I was looking over the DMB all-time disk, and they gave him a fair range rating (not poor), and also a very good arm. Are the reports of his awful defense greatly exagerrated? Are 1500 games at C and a 125 career OPS+ more common than I realize? I'm still a big fan.
29. Don Newcombe SP (41) - Now that I've quantified his extra credit, almost 5 seasons worth, I'm comfortable moving him ahead of Shocker and just behind Trucks. His hitting really makes a difference. He's closer to going higher than lower too.
30. Dizzy Trout SP (28) - Great pitcher from 1943-46. Best peak of any pitcher on the ballot this week. Haven't had a chance to run him through my new system yet.
31. Urban Shocker SP (40) - He was one heckuva pitcher. Never had a bad year, ultra consistent with a nice peak.
32. Ben Taylor 1B (29) - Poor man's Beckley.
33. Jimmy Ryan OF (30) - Could easily be as high as Van Haltren, why did he fade so much?
34. Charlie Keller LF (31) - God could he hit. But his career makes Kiner's look long. Still I think I underrated just how good he was. Moving up this week. I think there's a very strong case he's better than Sisler. I'll be really disappointed if we induct Sisler any time soon.
35. Dick Bartell SS (32) - Win Shares doesn't love him, but WARP does. More than Bancroft actually. Longer career than Bancroft, and WARP sees him as better defensively, even in WARP1, before the all-time adjustments. This is a conservative ranking as he re-enters the consideration set. I could be moving him higher.
36. Rube Waddell SP (33) - Another one that I shouldn't have dropped. Moving up significantly this week. I actually see him as between McGinnity and Brown (who I think we may have overrated, I was guilty too) at this point.
37. Jose Mendez SP (34) - Putting him back on the ballot after his recent election to the Hall of Fame caused me to reconsider his case. He was a better than Dolf Luque, but I don't think he was better than Waddell anymore.
38. George Sisler 1B (35) - I think he is somewhat overrated by the consensus. His peak was great, but has been overstated.
39. Bob Elliott 3B (36) - Not very far behind Hack, who I would place between Monroe and Medwick. I cannot see how one could rank Childs or Doyle ahead of Elliott (2B pre-1920 being equivalent to 3B post 1935).
40. Quincy Trouppe C (37) - Good player, a smidge below Mackey and Schang.
41. Cupid Childs 2B (39) - Good hitter, but 2B was a hitter's position in his time. Very similar to Stan Hack, much shorter career though. He gets a bump this week, Chris Cobb's Sisler analysis showed Childs pretty favorably. I still like Bob Elliott better though.
42. Dick Redding SP (42) - I see him just a little behind Grimes.
43. Roger Bresnahan C/CF (43) - Great OBP and gets a career value boost for being a catcher.
44. Dom DiMaggio CF (44) - With war credit he has enough career value and a solid peak. As was mentioned in his thread, a poor man's Richie Ashburn.
45. Ed Williamson 3B (45) - Still on the board after nearly 80 years.
46. Johnny Pesky SS/3B (46) - Basically the same player as Sewell but not as good defensively.
47. Walker Cooper C (47) - Great hitter for a catcher, just a smidge below Bresnahan and Schang.
48. Lave Cross 3B (48) - Also caught some. See Traynor for the reason he's back on the board. Enormous career value. Superb defender at important position(s).
49. Mike Griffin CF (49) - Great defensive player, could hit too. Keeping his memory alive . . .
50. Hugh Duffy OF (50) - Has to be behind Jimmy Ryan. I just don't see why some people like him so much. What makes him any better than Griffin? Griffin was on base more, and was a better fielder. Griffin had almost as much power. I just don't see it. If Duffy didn't have about 2 seasons on Griffin, he wouldn't be this close.
   106. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:39 PM (#2044419)
And the rest of the rest:

51. Edd Roush CF (51) - I'll take another look at him this week Mike Webber.
52. John McGraw 3B (52) - One helluva player - when he could stay on the field. More in-season durability would have significantly raised his ranking.
53. Pie Traynor 3B (53) - Back on the board. I think we are all seriously underrating 3B defense from the mid-30s back. Basically even with Larry Gardner, same player, different generation.
54. Larry Gardner 3B (54) - I see him as a tad behind Traynor, about equal to Childs after bumping for 3B D in his era.
55. Red Schoendienst 2B (55) - Good player, very nice peak from 1952-54. About equal as a hitter to someone like Concepcion or Campaneris, but they played SS, not 2B. Can't see any way to rank him ahead of someone like Larry Gardner, Billy Nash, Pie Traynor, Cupid Childs, etc.. So I bumped the others, since I don't think Schoendienst should be lower than this.
56. Buddy Myer 2B (56) - Sure could hit for a 2B. Had trouble staying in the lineup, but shouldn't have dropped off the board.
57. Rocky Colavito RF (57) - Not as good as Indian Bob, but a definite Hall of Very Gooder.
58. Mel Harder SP (58) - Forgotten everywhere but Cleveland it seems like, but he was a really good pitcher. With Grove hurt, he was arguably (Hubbell?) the best pitcher in baseball from 1933-35.
59. Billy Nash 3B (59) - Similar to Traynor, better glove, less pop.
60. Ed Cicotte SP (60) - Should be on the ballot if Willis is. I don't see him as being a real candidate, but in the interest of thoroughness he should be listed. Very nice peak.
61. Vic Willis SP (61) - I think I should have him higher, but I can't place him ahead of any of these guys.
62. Dick Groat SS (62) - Better than I would have thought. 2 years of military service help too. He basically had the same career length as Schoendienst. Wasn't quite as good of a hitter, but he was SS as opposed to being a 2B.
63. Bobo Newsom SP (63) - Similar to Leonard, kind of flies under the radar, but had a good career while he was bouncing all over the place, not much in terms of peak.
64. Dick Lundy SS (64) - Back on the radar, not as good as Sewell IMO.
65. Bobby Avila 2B (65) - Gives him some credit for pre-major league play. Had a couple of really big years in the early 1950s.
66. Lefty Gomez SP (67) - Quite comparable to Dean. Similar career value, Dean had the higher prime, Gomez the higher peak.
67. Dizzy Dean SP (66) - Great pitcher for a couple years. Too bad his career was cut short.
68. Mickey Welch SP (68) - I should not have completely dropped him from consideration. I think he was a good pitcher, not a great one. Not close to the pitchers from his generation that we did honor.
69. Tommy Henrich RF (69) - Don't forget to give him 3 years of war credit. I think Moises Alou is a very good modern comp.
70. Alvin Dark SS (70) - Shortstops that can hit league average are a valuable commodity.
71. Alejandro Oms OF (71) - Convince me if you think this is too low, I'm listening.
72. George Scales SS (72) - I'll side with those who say he was similar to, but not as good as Sewell or Moore. Is it wrong to have him behind Lundy?
73. Mickey Vernon 1B (73) - Good player, long valuable career, not nearly the hitter Beckley or Taylor were.
74. Dolf Luque SP (74) - Deserves this spot much more than Joss did.
75. Pete Browning CF (75) - He's on the board again. I just don't think the AA was all that good when Browning dominated it, he was a good player, but his stats need serious deflation. The bat was great, the D was awful and the career was short.
76. Gil Hodges 1B (76) - I don't see how he can be ranked above Vernon.
77. Larry Doyle 2B (77) - Another good pre-Ruth 2B, but he wasn't very good defensively, and the position wasn't even difficult at the time. I see him as similar as a hitter to Bob Elliott through 1950. He should be compared to post-war 3B, not 2B. He wasn't as good as Elliott defensively either.
78. Eddie Yost 3B (78) - Very good player, that OBP was amazing, +.051 vs. league average, despite hitting just .254 for his career. Bad D at 3B though, and not much power.
79. Sherm Lollar C (79) - Good player, somewhat forgotten by history. Catcher bonus gets him on the ballot.
80. Eddie Yost 3B (80) - Very good player, that OBP was amazing, +.051 vs. league average, despite hitting just .254 for his career. Bad D at 3B though, and not much power.
81. Sherm Lollar C (81) - Good player, somewhat forgotten by history. Catcher bonus gets him on the ballot.
   107. KJOK Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:41 PM (#2044423)
Using OWP w/playing time, Player Overall Wins Score, and defense (Win Shares/BP/Fielding Runs) for position players, applied to .500 baseline. Using Runs Saved Above Average, Player Overall WInsScore and Support Neutral Fibonacci Wins for Pitchers. For Position Players AND Pitchers, heavily weight comparison vs. contemporaries, and lightly look at WARP1.

1. ROGER BRESNAHAN, C. 23 POW, 75 WARP1, 282 RCAP & .651 OWP in 5,373 PA’s. Def: AVERAGE. He’s no Berra, but was best Catcher from 1880s – 1915.

2. JOHN McGRAW, 3B. 20 POW, 78 WARP1, 459 RCAP & .727 OWP in 4,909 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. Was CAREER ALL-TIME OBP% leader until Ruth qualifies in 1923, EVEN adjusting for League, and is STILL #3 behind Williams and Ruth. AND he played 3B, where offensive output was generally very low. Plus led his team to 3 consecutive championships. Oh, AND at least 2nd best 3B between 1875-1900!

3. FRANK CHANCE, 1B. 23 POW, 72 WARP1, 308 RCAP & .720 OWP in 5,099 PAs. Def: VERY GOOD. Excellent hitter and good fielder back when 1st base was MUCH more important defensively. Top seasons better than Beckley’s best. Deadball era offensive stars continue to get no respect….

4. JAKE BECKLEY, 1B. 23 POW, 115 WARP1, 245 RCAP & .596 OWP in 10,492 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. A very good for a long time player. Possibly best first baseman from 1880 – 1920, but I’m not 100% sold he was better than Chance or even Taylor.

5. QUINCY TROUPPE, C. Estimated 115 OPS+ over 8,462 PA’s. Def: AVERAGE. Comp looks to be Gary Carter. He could hit for a catcher, and seems to have been AT LEAST average defensively. One of the best major league teams was willing to give him a chance at age 39, which I think says something about his talent.

6. JOE SEWELL, SS. 35 POW, 103 WARP1, 346 RCAP & .549 OWP in 8,830 PAs. Def: VERY GOOD. Comps are Barry Larkin and Alan Trammell. Better than Ernie Banks. Best major league SS of the 1920’s, AND 3rd best SS of 1910-1930 period.

7. BEN TAYLOR, 1B. Estimated 138 OPS+ over 9,091 PA’s. Def: FAIR. Comps are Fred McGriff and Mule Suttles. Too bad his best years were pre-live ball, pre-Negro Leagues, but we do have his 1921 stats that show his greatness. He’s Bill Terry plus about 3 more Bill Terry type seasons.

8. BOB JOHNSON, LF. 36 POW, .651 OWP, 319 RCAP, 102 WARP1, 8,047 PAs. Def: VERY GOOD. Many many very good seasons.

9. ERNIE BANKS, SS. 27 POW, 123 WARP1, 216 RCAP & .563 OWP in 10,395 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. Piling up a lot of below average seasons doesn’t cut it in comparison with other top quality players.

10. DICK REDDING, P. 183 MLE Neut_Fibonacci_Wins, and 114 MLE ERA+ in 3,556 innings. Was the 2nd best Negro League Pitcher in his era, behind only Williams.

11. BILLY PIERCE, P.26 POW, 94 WARP1, 224 RSAA, 191 Neut_Fibonacci_Wins, and 119 ERA+ in 3,305 innings. Different career shape than Wynn, but very close in ranking.

12. BOB ELLIOTT, 3B. 21 POW, , 90 WARP1, 241 RCAP & .610 OWP in 8,190 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. 3rd best 3rd baseman in 1930-59 timeframe.

13. DAVE BANCROFT, SS. 36 POW, 111 WARP1, .498 OWP, 157 RCAP, 8,244 PA’s. Def: EXCELLENT. Similar to Bobby Wallace and Ozzie Smith, so surprised he’s not getting more votes.

14. KEN BOYER, 3B. 20 POW, , 96 WARP1, 122 RCAP & .561 OWP in 8,268 PAs. Def: VERY GOOD. Slightly early demise and only ‘very good’ offense keeps him from being higher.

15. CUPID CHILDS, 2B. 30 POW, 104 WARP1, 354 RCAP & .609 OWP in 6,762 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. Best 2nd baseman of the 1890’s, but only around 4th best in 30 year period.

LEFT OFF THE BALLOT:

NEWBIES OF NOTE:

JIM BUNNING, P.16 POW, 95 WARP1, 205 RSAA, 175 Neut_Fibonacci_Wins, and 114 ERA+ in 3,760 innings. Low Neutral Fibonacci Win Points and Player Overall Wins puts him behind a few others.

RETURNEES:

GEORGE SISLER, 1B. 27 POW, 93 WARP1, 205 RCAP & .611 OWP in 9,013 PAs. Def: FAIR. Only ranks about 5th at his position over 30 year period. Some really great seasons, but not enough of them.

JOSE MENDEZ, P. 154 MLE Neut Fibonacci Win Points. 114 MLE ERA+ over 3,001 MLE Innings. Similar career to Orel Hershiser perhaps. Had some really great years early in his career, then changed positions due to arm problems at age 27 and was never really a star player after that.

MINNIE MINOSO, LF. 21 POW, .636 OWP, 182 RCAP, 86 WARP1, 7,710 PAs. Def: VERY GOOD. Pre-MLB years don’t add much to his case.

RALPH KINER, LF.24 POW, 75 WARP1, .693 OWP, 346 RCAP, 6,256 PAs. Def: FAIR. Given the differences in career length and defense, can’t see putting him on ballot ahead of Bob Johnson.

DOBIE MOORE, SS. Wish we had good MLE’s for him. Hard to tell if he’s ballot-worthy or far from it. Could be close to Hugh Jennings comp. Based on reputation and known data, just not quite there.

HUGH DUFFY, CF/LF. 5 POW, 95 WARP1, 154 RCAP & .623 OWP in 7,838 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. Just not in the elite OF class offensively, and fielding runs doesn’t even like his defense (-31).

GEORGE VAN HALTREN, CF. 12 POW, 118 WARP1, 167 RCAP & .620 OWP in 8,992 PAs. Def: FAIR. He wasn’t that far above position offensively, and wasn’t that good defensively.

PETE BROWNING, CF/LF. 28 POW, 95 WARP1, 478 RCAP & .745 OWP in 5,315 PAs. Def: POOR. Baseball’s premier hitter in the 1880’s. Much better hitter than any eligible outfielder, but only around 6th best CF in 30 year period.

RUBE WADDELL, P. 254 RSAA, 222 Neut_Fibonacci_Wins, 69 WARP1 and 134 ERA+ in 2,961 innings. He was a more effective version of Nolan Ryan (fewer walks) and a LH clone of Dazzy Vance.

NELLIE FOX, 2B. 14 POW, .483 OWP, 129 RCAP, 93 WARP1, 10,349 PAs. Def: EXCELLENT. Too many other quality 2nd basemen still ahead of him, such as Doerr, Childs, & Gordon.

BUCKY WALTERS, P.25 POW, 161 RSAA, 166 Neut_Fibonacci_Wins, and 115 ERA+ in 3,104 innings. Hitting helps him, but doesn’t quite stack up to other pitchers.
   108. OCF Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:57 PM (#2044496)
Michael Bass said to use his prelim. Someone should put it here where it's easier to find:

1. Banks - Not that he's in danger of not being elected, but some of the comments have been a bit harsh, IMO. World class peak, plenty of augmenting value, amazingly easy #1 on this ballot.
2. Mendez
3. Moore
4. Sewell
5. Boyer
6. Bunning - Worse than Drysdale, better than Pierce. Terrible hitter, terrible senator (I've voted against him twice!), but great pitcher.
7. Walters
8. Minoso
9. Trouppe
10. Sisler
11. Johnson
12. Redding
13. Dunlap
14. Browning
15. Pierce
   109. Sean Gilman Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:58 PM (#2044498)
Not sure where my first shot at this landed . . . best of the rest.

It landed on the Ballot Discussion thread, Joe.
   110. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 30, 2006 at 11:59 PM (#2044509)
The election is now over. Results will be posted shortly.
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