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Monday, January 02, 2012

2012 BBTF Hall of Fame Ballot

IMPORTANT: Please read:

This election should follow BBWAA rules, not Hall of Merit rules. However, we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots - if you don’t feel he really is a HOFer, then please refrain from posting that player’s name (examples of whom I am referring to are Mookie Wilson, Scott Broscius, Buddy Biancalana - players who were well liked or were underdogs, but have no creditable HOF resume). Leaving 1st-year candidates off your ballot is also frowned upon. IOW, we would like to see an absence of some of the silliness that permeates Hall of Fame voting by the writers.

The election will end next Sunday on Jan 8 (8 PM EST). Results will be posted at the same time.

Please don’t post any vote tallies on this thread.

Here are some of the rules by the BBWAA that pertain to our electorate:

3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
E. Any player on Baseball’s ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

4. Method of Election

A. BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.
B. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.+
C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

The eligible candidates are: Jeff Bagwell, Jeromy Burnitz*, Vinny Castilla*, Juan Gonzalez, Brian Jordan*, Barry Larkin, Javy Lopez*, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Fred McGriff, Jack Morris, Bill Mueller*, Terry Mullholland*, Dale Murphy, Phil Nevin*, Rafael Palmeiro, Brad Radke*, Tim Raines, Tim Salmon*, Ruben Sierra*, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, Bernie Williams*, Tony Womack* and Eric Young*.

* 1st-year candidates

** Last year of eligibility

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 02, 2012 at 06:42 PM | 202 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 02, 2012 at 07:57 PM (#4027136)
Finally can post it today! :-)
   2. Gold Star for Robothal Posted: January 02, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4027138)
Jeff Bagwell, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker.
   3. JoeC Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4027140)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   4. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:05 PM (#4027141)
Bagwell
Gonzalez
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Palmiero
Raines
Smith
Trammell
Walker
   5. Repoz Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4027142)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
   6. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4027144)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   7. Juan V Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4027145)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams
   8. Lassus Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4027151)
Jeff Bagwell
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Barry Larkin
Alan Trammell
Mark McGwire
   9. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4027155)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
Trammell
McGwire
Palmeiro
   10. rawagman Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4027156)
Not that it matters, but the follows is resembling how I might order them:
1)Barry Larkin
2)Jeff Bagwell
3)Tim Raines
4)Mark McGwire
5)Alan Trammell
6)Larry Walker
7)Edgar Martinez
8)Rafael Palmeiro
9)Fred McGriff
10)Dale Murphy
   11. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4027159)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
Trammell
McGwire
Palmeiro
Martinez
   12. vortex of dissipation Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4027160)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
   13. CrosbyBird Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4027165)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   14. user Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4027166)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   15. MikeTorrez Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4027167)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
   16. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4027168)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   17. Chris Fluit Posted: January 02, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4027172)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   18. Walt Davis Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:01 PM (#4027173)
Bagwell
Larkin
McGwire
Raines
Trammell
Walker
   19. The District Attorney Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4027175)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams
   20. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4027176)
The first five are easy, even if not inner circle. In alphabetical order:

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

The last one isn't, since his figures are bloated by Coors. But it's still hard to argue with those adjusted numbers, and so I'd add him to the group:

Larry Walker
   21. Tim Marchman Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4027177)
Bagwell
Martínez
Larkin
Trammell
Murphy
Raines
Walker
Williams
   22. RJ in TO Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4027179)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   23. DL from MN Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4027183)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Considered voting for Lee Smith (meets HoF reliever standards but they're too low) and Palmeiro (Meets HoM standards but is borderline so I'll hold his juicing against him) but decided against it.
   24. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4027184)
Bagwell
Larkin
Trammell
Raines
Mcgriff
Smith
martinez
Walker
McGwire
Palmerio
   25. AJMcCringleberry Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4027185)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Would vote for Williams too, but ran out of spots.
   26. billh Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4027192)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   27. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4027200)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
McGwire
Trammell
Walker
Martinez
Palmeiro
McGriff
Williams
   28. MBL Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4027202)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   29. Mefisto Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4027206)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
Trammell
   30. UCCF Posted: January 02, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4027208)
Bagwell
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
McGriff
Palmeiro
Raines
Smith
Trammell
Walker
   31. theorioleway Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4027210)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Mark McGwire
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4027214)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
Trammell
   33. Banta Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4027217)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

I go back and forth on Edgar, but his prime is too much to ignore. I can't bring myself to vote for Walker. I know the value's there, but I really think there's something to be said for durability.
   34. Srul Itza At Home Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:15 PM (#4027225)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker


Big Hall Time
   35. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:20 PM (#4027228)
I apologize for starting a discussion on a ballot thread, but:

I go back and forth on Edgar, but his prime is too much to ignore. I can't bring myself to vote for Walker. I know the value's there, but I really think there's something to be said for durability.



Walker from 1990 (when he first became a regular) till 2005 - 123 games per season.

Edgar from 1990 (when he first became a regular) till 2004 - 131 games per season.

Surely Walker's excellent defense and good baserunning compared to Edgar's negligible and poor is enough to overcome a mere 8 game deficit in games played.
   36. Mike Webber Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4027229)
1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Barry Larkin
3. Edgar Martinez
4. Mark McGwire
5. Fred McGriff
6. Rafael Palmeiro
7. Tim Raines
8. Alan Trammell
9. Larry Walker
10. Bernie Williams
   37. ajnrules Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:25 PM (#4027234)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Don Mattingly
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Bernie Williams
   38. LargeBill Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4027236)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   39. Ken015 Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4027245)
Larkin
Bagwell
Raines
Trammell
   40. Willie Mays Hayes Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4027253)
Bagwell
Raines
Martinez
Larkin
Walker
McGwire
Trammell
Murphy
Williams
Palmeiro
   41. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 02, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4027261)
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines
Lee Smith

Bagwell comes up short for me. I can't totally ignore the possibility that he used PEDs and that they helped keep him on the field 2-3 years longer than he would otherwise have lasted, and when I look at what I think would have been the most likely end result of a shorter career I come up with something very much like Albert Belle.

Smith I've touched on before. He was caught in the transition between the Gossage era of closers and the Eckersley era of closers, so we tend to think of him more as we think of a modern-era closer where in reality he was more like Gossage for much of his career.

Bernie Williams is the only newcomer worth taking seriously, and he wasn't quite good enough for long enough.

-- MWE
   42. Jittery McFrog Posted: January 02, 2012 at 11:20 PM (#4027279)
Bagwell
Larkin
Trammell
McGwire
Raines
Walker
Martinez
Murphy
   43. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: January 02, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4027283)
Barry Larkin
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Jeff Bagwell
Rafael Palmeiro
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff

I'm one of those who thinks it is virtually impossible to determine what impact PEDs had on the game in the 1990s and 2000s, and anybody who thinks they can say for sure is either lying or delusional. We don't know who did it, we don't know what advantages it really gave to players, and we can't really say what residual benefits it gave even those players who did not use PEDs (Johnny Damon, for example, scored many more runs in Boston because Ortiz and Manny were so incredible. If they were using PEDs during that time, though, should we give Damon credit for as many runs scored, as many plate appearances, etc.? For that matter, how do we know who else in that lineup was or wasn't using PEDs? Damon? Millar?) So, my ballot reflects that this was simply part of the game for some period of time, like 296-foot right field fences, mile-high elevation ballparks, greenies, legal spitballs, non-integrated-era baseball, expansion pitching staffs, World War II-era baseball, unusually high pitching mounds in the 1960s, etc.
   44. Carl Goetz Posted: January 02, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4027303)
How does Kevin Brown not get enough votes last year to even stay on the ballot?! This is why I don't take the BBWAA seriously!
   45. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4027317)
Jeff Bagwell
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams
   46. Baldrick Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:24 AM (#4027325)
Same as last year, except the induction of Alomar and Bert means I can add Palmeiro.

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   47. The Hal Lanier Hitting Academy Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4027342)
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Bernie Williams
   48. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:02 AM (#4027350)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
   49. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:13 AM (#4027352)
The eligible candidates are: Jeff Bagwell, Jeromy Burnitz*, Vinny Castilla*, Juan Gonzalez, Brian Jordan*, Barry Larkin, Javy Lopez*, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Fred McGriff, Jack Morris, Bill Mueller*, Terry Mullholland*, Dale Murphy, Phil Nevin*, Rafael Palmeiro, Brad Radke*, Tim Raines, Tim Salmon*, Ruben Sierra*, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, Bernie Williams*, Tony Womack* and Eric Young*.

Bagwell
Larkin
McGwire
McGriff
Palmeiro
Raines
Trammell
Walker

(I struggled over Walker, Williams, and Edgar. First time I'm supporting Walker. Edgar inched closer in my eyes but still falls just short. I can be convinced otherwise.)

EDIT: Sorry, I left the intro in by accident, and it's not letting me delete it.
   50. bobm Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:25 AM (#4027361)
Bagwell, Trammell, Larkin, Raines
   51. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4027369)
Larkin
Bagwell
Trammell
Raines
Walker
McGwire
Palmeiro
Martinez
Murphy
Williams

I'm 100% solid on 1-5. Setting aside steroids (as I'm wont to do), I'm 100% solid on 6-7. I could go either way on #8, #9 is kind of a personal favorite who's close enough to the borderline. Given HOF voting rules, I'm tossing Bernie Williams a vote because I think he deserves to hang around on the ballot for further consideration.
   52. Dr. Vaux Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:35 AM (#4027372)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

I'm a large Hall guy, obviously.

Comments:
If write-ins were permitted, I would write in Kevin Brown and Lou Whitaker.

Like it or not, DH is a position (Heck, Palmeiro got a Gold Glove for playing it!). Relief pitcher is not a position; it's a role, like pinch hitter.

I ignore steroids, since I don't think they should be illegal in or outside of baseball.
   53. SWW Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:39 AM (#4027374)
I don't know if I've become Big Hall. But I've definitely become Big Ballot. Especially since several of these guys are gonna get buffaloed next year. Alphabetically:

Jeffrey Robert Bagwell
Barry Louis Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Frederick Stanley McGriff - "The Crime Dog"
Mark David McGwire - "Big Mac"
Dale Bryan Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro Corrales
Timothy Raines - "Rock"
Alan Stuart Trammell
Larry Kenneth Robert Walker
   54. Guapo Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:57 AM (#4027383)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Bernie Williams
   55. shoewizard Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:05 AM (#4027384)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   56. OCF Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:31 AM (#4027390)
Bagwell
Larkin
Martinez
McGriff
McGwire
Palmeiro
Raines
Trammell
Walker
   57. Jick Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:32 AM (#4027391)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Mark McGwire
Larry Walker
Dale Murphy
Edgar Martinez
   58. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:35 AM (#4027393)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
   59. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:35 AM (#4027394)
I'm tossing Bernie Williams a vote because I think he deserves to hang around on the ballot for further consideration.

You should have your ballot taken away then. The intro specifically asked to cut crap like that out.
   60. Adam Schafer Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:41 AM (#4027398)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   61. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:45 AM (#4027399)
You should have your ballot taken away then. The intro specifically asked to cut crap like that out.


The intro says "examples of whom I am referring to are ... players who were well liked or were underdogs, but have no creditable HOF resume." Bernie Williams has a "creditable HOF resume" that, if I was forced to decide right now, I would say fell just short. Under HOF voting rules, the only way I can reconsider that decision next year is if he gets 5% of the vote. Under perpetual eligibility guidelines like the HOM has, I'd be much more comfortable leaving him off the ballot entirely.
   62. Booey Posted: January 03, 2012 at 02:58 AM (#4027405)
1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Mark McGwire
3. Barry Larkin
4. Tim Raines
5. Rafael Palmeiro
6. Alan Trammell
7. Fred McGriff
8. Larry Walker
9. Edgar Martinez


Hate to not recognize any pitchers, but when Lee Smith and Jack Morris are your best options...
   63. CraigK Posted: January 03, 2012 at 03:13 AM (#4027416)
Jeff Bagwell,
Juan Gonzalez,
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   64. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 03, 2012 at 03:14 AM (#4027418)
The intro says "examples of whom I am referring to are ... players who were well liked or were underdogs, but have no creditable HOF resume." Bernie Williams has a "creditable HOF resume" that, if I was forced to decide right now, I would say fell just short. Under HOF voting rules, the only way I can reconsider that decision next year is if he gets 5% of the vote. Under perpetual eligibility guidelines like the HOM has, I'd be much more comfortable leaving him off the ballot entirely.


Well, I don't think Fancy Pants needed to be so antagonistic, but upon reading your ballot and explanation I too concluded that you weren't voting in accordance with John's guidelines as laid out at the start of the thread.

I took John to mean that we should only place a player on our ballot if we felt, right now, at this moment, that he "really is a HOFer," as John said:

This election should follow BBWAA rules, not Hall of Merit rules. However, we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots - if you don’t feel he really is a HOFer, then please refrain from posting that player’s name


I also don't think it's valid under any circumstances -- this BBTF vote or the real BBWAA vote -- to vote for a player you are not sold on solely in an effort to ensure that he gets the minimum 5% so that you can consider him again next year. And you've admitted you think Williams falls short at this moment.
   65. Ron J Posted: January 03, 2012 at 03:29 AM (#4027425)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker


   66. Booey Posted: January 03, 2012 at 03:32 AM (#4027427)
So are we avoiding discussion in this thread? There's a few ballots that I'm curious about (not in a critical way), but I'll hold back my questions if that's not what we're doing here... :)
   67. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 03, 2012 at 03:34 AM (#4027428)
What Ray said. Although I do enjoy the irony of being lectured by him on being too antagonistic.

Also, the excuse of "I want to be able to consider him in the future" doesn't even work, because your vote here will have exactly zero influence on whether he is eligible in the future.
   68. Austin Posted: January 03, 2012 at 04:31 AM (#4027436)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   69. EricC Posted: January 03, 2012 at 06:47 AM (#4027445)
2012 BBTF Hall of Fame Ballot. Strange not to have Blyleven on this time around.

Discussion:

Walker. I believe that the NL was the weaker league during his career, and therefore
that his sabermetric stats can't be taken at full face value. Pending a more
accurate estimate for league correction factors, he falls just off the ballot.

B. Williams. AL strength doesn't hurt his case. Loses in the collective memory because
he is a CF who gets lumped in with corner OF.

Brown and Whitaker. In the past, I felt that write-ins were a waste, but why should
worthy players be punished just because the BBWAA made mistakes?

Jeff Bagwell
Kevin Brown (write-in)
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Lou Whitaker (write-in)
Bernie Williams
   70. Eugene Freedman Posted: January 03, 2012 at 07:38 AM (#4027452)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
   71. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: January 03, 2012 at 07:48 AM (#4027453)
Mark McGwire
Jeff Bagwell
Rafael Palmeiro
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines
Dale Murphy
   72. Bleed the Freak Posted: January 03, 2012 at 08:01 AM (#4027456)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams - hopefully he clears the 5% line...a borderline case that I would like to re-examine in the future
Kevin Brown - write-in

Newcomers:
Javy Lopez - intriguing Hall of Very Good catcher
Tim Salmon - overlooked, close to consideration set
Ruben Sierra - had hall of fame potential, offseason weight lifting seemed to kill his flexibility and hall chances
Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, and Phil Nevin - thanks for signing autographs!

Others:
Lee Smith - in/out line for relievers, not sure I can place him over the line yet - thanks for the auto.
Jack Morris - the next Jim Rice? Maybe we'll get to hear about how feared Morris was in the coming years?
   73. Swedish Chef Posted: January 03, 2012 at 08:11 AM (#4027457)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
   74. chisoxcollector Posted: January 03, 2012 at 08:45 AM (#4027470)
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Barry Larkin
Alan Trammell
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
   75. Fridas Boss Posted: January 03, 2012 at 09:12 AM (#4027478)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Rafael Palmeiro
Alan Trammell
   76. bookbook Posted: January 03, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4027479)
Jeff Bagwell
Alan Trammell
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines
Rafael Palmeiro
Mark McGwire
Edgar Martinez
Lou Whitaker-Write-in
   77. toratoratora Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:10 AM (#4027490)
Bagwell
Larkin
Raines
Trammell
McGwire
   78. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:11 AM (#4027492)
I also don't think it's valid under any circumstances -- this BBTF vote or the real BBWAA vote -- to vote for a player you are not sold on solely in an effort to ensure that he gets the minimum 5% so that you can consider him again next year.


If this was even a part of the reason Lou Whitaker went one-and-done, then I say F that "rule." Or call it the lesser of two evils: It could have avoided 3 LW write-ins thus far....

My ballot to follow after more research.
   79. HGM Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:11 AM (#4027494)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   80. DCA Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:12 AM (#4027495)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Honorable mention to Bernie Williams, who I think is worthy, but not top-10
   81. Rusty Priske Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4027500)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

I would put Bernie Williams as well, if I were allowed to vote for 11.
   82. Rusty Priske Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4027505)
I just realized that DCA and I put in the exact same ballot... including the #11 vote...
   83. Moldorf Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4027508)
Bagwell
Raines
Larkin
Trammell
Palmeiro
   84. BrianBrianson Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:26 AM (#4027511)
Jeff Bagwell
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams

I realise not including Larkin will likely draw flak, but the voting rules only say I need to vote for candidates worthy of election. With 11 candidates worthy of election, I dropped Larkin because he needs the votes the least, not because I think he's the least worthy of the 11 (he's obviously not).
   85. Where have you gone Brady Anderson? Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4027512)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams

Would have voted for Palmeiro without the 10 person ballot limit
   86. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4027533)
80. DCA Posted: January 03, 2012 at 09:12 AM (#4027495)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Honorable mention to Bernie Williams, who I think is worthy, but not top-10


81. Rusty Priske Posted: January 03, 2012 at 09:20 AM (#4027500)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

I would put Bernie Williams as well, if I were allowed to vote for 11.


Come on! At least try to be subtle when you post from multiple accounts.
   87. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: January 03, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4027536)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Allan Trammell
Tim Raines


   88. AROM Posted: January 03, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4027560)
Barry Larkin
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Dale Murphy
Tim Salmon
   89. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: January 03, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4027565)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Fred McGriff

Honorable mention to Bernie Williams. And I wanted to vote for Lee Smith (my Cub bias?), but I just can't.

EDIT: I was a bit shaky on my last three, but I think I tend to be a larger hall guy.
   90. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 03, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4027574)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Dale Murphy
Fred McGriff
Jack Morris
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Murphy's new, Bert and Alomar from 2011 ballot were elected. McGwire and Palmeiro "adjusted" out, not "bright lined" out.

If I had a real life ballot, I'd write in Pete Rose.
   91. The District Attorney Posted: January 03, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4027583)
I dropped Larkin because he needs the votes the least, not because I think he's the least worthy of the 11 (he's obviously not).
Heh... this strikes me as much more questionable than voting for a guy because you "need more time to think about him."

But, since this is under BBWAA rules and they clearly don't give a ####, I think everyone is okay :-)
   92. cookiedabookie Posted: January 03, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4027592)
Larkin
Bagwell
Trammell
Raines
Martinez
Walker
Palmeiro
McGwire
Smith
Williams
   93. Chris Fluit Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4027609)
So are we avoiding discussion in this thread? There's a few ballots that I'm curious about (not in a critical way), but I'll hold back my questions if that's not what we're doing here... :)


My understanding is that discussion is permitted, vote counting is not.
   94. jobtears Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4027616)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Kevin Brown (write-in)
   95. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4027618)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

echo what I assume is some handwringing over not having a pitcher on my ballot, but what's a paperboy to do?
   96. DanG Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4027622)
If you're inclined to add write-ins, here are Hall of Merit members still under BBWAA jurisdiction, but eliminated from the ballot by the 5% rule:

David Cone
Lou Whitaker
Willie Randolph
Will Clark
Kevin Brown
Bret Saberhagen
Dave Stieb
   97. mex4173 Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4027636)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark Mcgwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams


Smith and Williams, at the very least, would be dropped (Brown and Whitaker) if the 5% rule was different.
   98. JJ1986 Posted: January 03, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4027672)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
(Kevin Brown)
Mark McGwire
(Lou Whitaker)
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Rafael Palmeiro
   99. Howie Menckel Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4027678)

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

McGriff 9th of the 9
   100. Richard Gadsden Posted: January 03, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4027680)
I find it interesting that there are ballots with Palmeiro on and not McGwire. I don't quite get why, but that's the fun of this.

Plus the person who left off Larkin has the first good reason for not voting for a superstar that I've ever seen.

I decline to submit a vote, as I've never seen any of the candidates play anywhere near the peak of their abilities (I started watching baseball regularly in 2003), and I refuse to judge solely on the statistics; there are plenty of people more qualified to do so.
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