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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Tuesday, December 11, 2012

2013 BBTF Hall of Fame Ballot

IMPORTANT: Please read:

This election should follow BBWAA rules, not Hall of Merit rules. However, we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots - if you don’t feel he really is a HOFer, then please refrain from posting that player’s name (examples of whom I am referring to are Mookie Wilson, Scott Brosius, Buddy Biancalana - players who were well liked or were underdogs, but have no creditable HOF resume). Leaving 1st-year candidates off your ballot is also frowned upon. IOW, we would like to see an absence of some of the silliness that permeates Hall of Fame voting by the writers.

The election will end next Thursday on Dec 20th (5 PM EST). Results will be posted a short time later.

Please don’t post any vote tallies on this thread.

Here are some of the rules by the BBWAA that pertain to our electorate:

3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
E. Any player on Baseball’s ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

4. Method of Election

A. BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.
B. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.
C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

The eligible candidates are: Sandy Alomar Jr*, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio*, Barry Bonds*, Jeff Cirillo*, Royce Clayton*, Roger Clemens*, Jeff Conine*, Steve Finley*, Julio Franco*, Shawn Green*, Roberto Hernandez*, Ryan Klesko*, Kenny Lofton*, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jose Mesa*, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy**, Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Piazza*, Tim Raines, Reggie Sanders*, Curt Schilling*, Aaron Sele*, Lee Smith, Sammy Sosa*, Mike Stanton*, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, Todd Walker*, David Wells*, Rondell White*, Bernie Williams, Woody Williams*.

* 1st-year candidates
** Last year of eligibility

DL from MN Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:07 PM | 127 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. Booey Posted: December 14, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4324942)
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Curt Shilling
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza

Sorry folks, I'm in the extreme minority at Primer in that I will not vote for (reasonably) proven PED guys.



Not to start an argument or anything, but what's the reasonable proof against Clemens or Sosa? The evidence against them doesn't seem to be any stronger than it does against Bagwell or Piazza. Just wondering.
   102. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 14, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4324955)
Not to start an argument or anything, but what's the reasonable proof against Clemens or Sosa? The evidence against them doesn't seem to be any stronger than it does against Bagwell or Piazza. Just wondering.


I think there is enough against Clemens. And I don't think Sosa is good enough, although it's close. The corked bat pushes him firmly into my out pile though (I frown upon all forms of cheating not just steroids).
   103. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 15, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4325476)
Bleed the Freak/95:

If you had to, could you name 15 players who belong in the hall of merit who havent been elected, and 15 that are unworthy that have been elected.


I appreciate being asked, but I can't.

The Hall of Merit voters as a group have taken the research into historical player performance beyond anything that I think anyone has ever done - certainly far beyond anything that I've ever done - with a group decision-making process that leads to self-criticism and reevaluation to an extent that I don't think we've every seen before, either. It's not my place as a non-participant who hasn't done the research to second-guess the decisions made by that group of people.

-- MWE
   104. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 15, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4325499)
Not to start an argument or anything, but what's the reasonable proof against Clemens or Sosa? The evidence against them doesn't seem to be any stronger than it does against Bagwell or Piazza. Just wondering.


I think there is enough against Clemens.

Forget the fact that he was acquitted in court, but what sort of evidence would you want to give you a more than reasonable doubt that Clemens used steroids?

He had two accusers. One (McNamee) was scarcely credible, and the other (Pettitte) backtracked to the point where he admitted he was unsure of what Clemens had told him.

The physical evidence (the syringes) was more than ambiguous in what they could have proven.

And if you examine the years that McNamee claimed that Clemens was juicing (1998, 2000 & 2001), there's no discernible improvement over anything he'd ever done before. He won a CYA in 1998, but he'd also won the same award with even better stats the previous year. Contrast the complete randomness of his performance during his alleged juicing years with the marked spikes of Barry Bonds, whose best years came after he'd began juicing, and who'd never had years like those before that.

I'm not saying that it's impossible that Clemens juiced, but when the evidence presented against him is as shaky and full of hearsay as it was presented during his trial---which ended in acquittal---I don't see how you can equate him with players against whom the evidence was a lot more tangible.

   105. Uncle Willy Posted: December 15, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4325675)
My ballot, in order:

Bonds
Clemens
Biggio
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Sosa
Palmeiro
McGwire
Bagwell

Others that I would vote for if there was no limit:

Schilling
Martinez
McGriff

In past years I would have thrown a sympathy vote to Bernie Williams, but there's no room this year. Not a HOFer, but it's a shame that he will likely be one and done.
   106. Lassus Posted: December 15, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4325738)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
   107. flournoy Posted: December 15, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4325759)
My ballot:
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell

With apologies to these guys, for whom I have no room:
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
   108. EddieA Posted: December 15, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4325823)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell


   109. lieiam Posted: December 15, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4325832)
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Craig Biggio
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire

It hurts to leave off Trammell & Martinez... but I'll just go with this list and leave it at that.
   110. Srul Itza At Home Posted: December 15, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4325839)
I'm not sufficiently convinced that he was clean


This is one of the dumbest sentences I have ever seen written at BBTF.
   111. John DiFool2 Posted: December 15, 2012 at 11:50 PM (#4325846)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Kenny Lofton
   112. Nate the Neptunian Posted: December 16, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4325964)
Using the same system as I use for the HOM, which favors prime/peak over career and strongly considers where a player ranks among his peers, in order:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Craig Biggio
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Sammy Sosa

I'd also vote for McGwire, Schilling, Trammell and Dale Murphy, given the chance. Bernie Williams just misses the cut.
   113. user Posted: December 16, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4325972)
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Edgar Martinez
Craig Biggio
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Alan Trammell
Curt Schilling
   114. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: December 16, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4325980)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
   115. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: December 16, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4326121)
My HOF vote in rank order:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Tim Raines
Sammy Sosa
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell

Craig Biggio, Rafael Palmeiro, Kenny Lofton and Mark McGwire would get "yes" votes if there was no limit.

EDIT: Whoops, left off Edgar.
   116. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: December 19, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4328485)
I'm not sure who is counting the ballots, but I've got an email from OCF with the tally through post #116. Just let me know who to send it to . . .
   117. Lassus Posted: December 19, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4328574)
bump - still 24+ hours to vote.
   118. DL from MN Posted: December 19, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4328586)
I don't think anyone formally stood up and said "I'm counting ballots".
   119. Fog City Blues Posted: December 20, 2012 at 01:30 AM (#4329155)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   120. DL from MN Posted: December 21, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4330140)
Balloting is closed. Joe - there's only one ballot to add to OCF's tally.
   121. cookiedabookie Posted: December 22, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4330913)
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Tim Raines
Kenny Lofton
Larry Walker
   122. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 23, 2012 at 09:11 AM (#4331363)
Are there any plans to actually post the results? I have a tally that I can post in this thread if nobody's going to start a new one.
   123. DL from MN Posted: December 23, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4331454)
I think things quieted down for the holidays. If your tally matches Joe Dimino / OCF then someone I can probably post a results thread tomorrow.
   124. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: December 23, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4331711)
Sorry, I've never done this before, this one is usually John Murphy's thing. Now that he's gone as an admin, I'll get the results up. This was off my radar after I voted.
   125. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 27, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4333038)
Missed this but what the hay. Here's mine, roughly in order of most worthy since I have more than 10 qualified candidates:

In:

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Piazza
4. McGwire
5. Bagwell
6. Schilling
7. Trammell
8. Biggio
9. Raines
10. Palmeiro
11. Sosa
12. McGriff
--------------

Borderline but could be convinced:
1. LWalker
2. LSmith
3. DMurphy
4. BWilliams
5. EMartinez
6. KLofton

Out:
1. DMattingly
2. DWells
5. JMorris
   126. Delorians Posted: December 27, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4333106)
Alphabetically:

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGriff
Murphy
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell

had a tough time limiting to 10. Murphy got the last spot due to this being his last year eligible.

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