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Hall of Merit
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Tuesday, September 14, 2004

Bingo DeMoss

He doesn’t look like a HoMer to me, but maybe someone can change my mind here.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 14, 2004 at 01:10 AM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: September 14, 2004 at 04:02 AM (#853246)
Couldn't hit.
   2. DavidFoss Posted: September 14, 2004 at 04:09 AM (#853260)
His given name is Elwood.
   3. Chris Cobb Posted: September 14, 2004 at 12:41 PM (#853712)
Bingo DeMoss data

From Holway

1912 .231 for West Baden Sprudels
1913 .091 for various teams
1914 no data
1915 .243 for Ind ABCs; Holway all star
1-9 vs. major/minor league competition
21-64 (.328) for ABCs in Cuba
1916 .231 for Ind ABCs; Holway all star
4-14 (.286) in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
0-3 vs. major-league competition
1917 .168 for Chi Am Giants
1918 .108 for Chi Am Giants; Holway all star
1919 .180 for Chi Am Giants; Holway all star
1920 .281 for Chi Am Giants
1921 .241 for Chi Am Giants
2-14 in World Series vs. Hilldale
1922 .256 for Chi Am Giants
2-16 in World Series vs. Bacharachs
1923 .252 for Chi Am Giants
4-13 (.308) vs. major-league competition
1924 .219 for Chi Am Giants
1925 .228 for Ch Am Giants
1926 .282 for Ind ABCs
1927 .210 for Detroit Stars; player-manager
1928 .155 for Detroit Stars; player-manager, listed by Holway as a utility player
1929 .314 for Detroit Stars; player-manager; ut
1930 .256 for Detroit Stars; player-manager, ut

Career totals derived from Holway
.215 Mean avg. 1912-13, 1915-1927
5-25 (.200) vs. major-league competition

From Riley

1915 .316 avg. (vs. all competition?)
1916 .250 avg.
1917 .258 avg.
1918 .201 avg.
1919 .316 avg (vs. all competition?)
1920-25, .286, .261, .254 in three seasons
1926 .303 avg. (Holway is close)
1929 .314 avg. (Holway agrees)

From i9s

Projected career 1915-1927
6640 ab, 1700 hits, 240 2b, 106 3b, 32 hr, 749 bb, .256 BA, .331 OBP, .339 SLG, 670 OPS

The i9s data seems to overrate Moss substantially, and it still doesn't give him a batting profile that would suggest that Moss is a HoMer.
   4. dan b Posted: September 14, 2004 at 04:55 PM (#854045)
Bill James's picking DeMoss as the #1 Negro-League second baseman is his least comprehensible pick in the whole Negro-League section.

Bill James has good company when he names DeMoss the best 2B of the NeL.

From the Cool Papas survey we learn that both Riley and Holway believe that DeMoss was the best 2B in NeL history. Riley writes “Unquestionably the greatest second baseman in black baseball for the first quarter century.”
   5. sunnyday2 Posted: September 15, 2004 at 12:30 AM (#855121)
I think we've all seen and heard and experienced enough in the past two years to know that the choice of DeMoss as the greatest NeL 2B of all-time is a reflection not of DeMoss' superiority but of the inferiority of knowledge of the earlier 2Bs on the part of most who prefer DeMoss. Oh, except in Bill James' case it would appear to be a function of a grossly biased timeline philosophy. Grant and Monroe and HR Johnson are as Pearce, G. Wright and Ross Barnes in terms of their place within the development of the two separate but unequal paths of baseball--white and black.

That and the general lack of any great 2Bs in the NeL's after about 1920. I agree with whoever wrote that all the really good IFers were playing SS, and the NeL just didn't have a sufficient talent pool to have great players left over for 2B.

If Pelayo Chacon was a .250 Gold Glove SS, how could he not be better than a .230 Gold Glove 2B?
   6. KJOK Posted: September 16, 2004 at 12:49 AM (#857706)
DeMoss is the "Bill Mazeroski" candidate - you're going to have to highly value his defense for him to make the ballot:

Actual 1928 Stats:
Games - 40
AB - 124
H-20
2B-4
3B-1
HR-0
Runs-15
BB-7
HBP-1
Sac-3
SB-0
AVE-.161
OBP-.212
SLG-.210
   7. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: September 27, 2004 at 02:59 PM (#880382)
Am i completely off base when I think of Bingo DeMoss as a rich man's Pokey Reese? They are/were both sublime glovemen that didn't hit for much average or power. Sure, DeMoss will have more career value, but who is to say that Reese wouldn't have had similar value in the Negro Leagues. I would rank DeMoss higher than Reese would ever be ranked but that connection keeps him a ways from my ballot.
   8. KJOK Posted: September 28, 2004 at 08:42 PM (#883149)
I'm calling him a poor man's Bill Mazeroski personally...
   9. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: September 28, 2004 at 08:51 PM (#883175)
That is a little more flattering
   10. Gary A Posted: December 08, 2004 at 03:49 PM (#1005923)
From Patrick Rock's 1923 NNL yearbook:

Bingo DeMoss 1923
Chicago American Giants

G-76
AB-278
H-71
D-10
T-1
HR-1
R-56
RBI-31
W-31
SB-12
AVE-.255
OBA-.332
SLG-.309
   11. Gary A Posted: December 18, 2004 at 04:24 PM (#1028978)
I know you're all burning for a Bingo DeMoss fix.

1921 Bingo DeMoss
NNL Chicago American Giants

G-70 (team 70)
AB-259
H-66
D-11
T-1
HR-1
R-57
W-29
HP-2
SH-9
SB-16
AVE-.255 (NeL .263)
OBA-.334 (NeL .324)
SLG-.317 (NeL .361)

He did play in the American Giants' park, so his batting numbers are somewhat better than they look. In fact, he was probably the third-best hitter on the team, behind Torriente and Lyons.
   12. KJOK Posted: February 23, 2005 at 01:26 AM (#1160252)
1916 Indiannapolis ABC's (DeMoss looks a little better here, and was a little younger at 31 years old)

G-23 (Team-46)
AB-68 (Tm-151)
H-20 (Tm-44)
2B-0 (Tm-4)
3B-4(!) (Tm-3)
HR-0 (Tm-0)
Sac-7 (Tm-11)
Ave-.294 (Tm-.291)
SLG-.412 (Tm.-.373)

Per:
Paul Debono
McFarland Publishing Inc.
THE INDIANAPOLIS ABCS HISTORY OF A PREMIER TEAM IN THE NEGRO LEAGUES
   13. KJOK Posted: September 13, 2011 at 10:52 PM (#3923797)

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