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Monday, November 28, 2005

Bob Boyd

Eligible in 1967.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 28, 2005 at 02:11 AM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 28, 2005 at 02:44 AM (#1749049)
Can "the Rope" lasso some votes when he's eligible?
   2. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: November 30, 2005 at 11:26 PM (#1754011)
I'll post my workup of Boyd sometime tomorrow (or tonight if domesticity allows).
   3. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: December 01, 2005 at 04:19 PM (#1754958)
Bob Boyd's pre-MLB stats

negro leagues                
YEAR LG  TM  AGE PO TMG  G  AB   H  TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG  SLG
1946 nal mem 20  1b  37            
1947 nal mem 21  1b     73 283  96 145        4        .339 
1948 nal mem 22  1b  77 77 303 114 165 18  9  5  4     .376 .545
1949 nal     23  1b     76 293 110 170                 .375 
1950 nal     24  1b  76 63 250  89 153 27  8  7  9     .356 .612
                 
western league 
YEAR LG  TM  AGE PO TMG   G  AB  H  TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG  SLG
1950 wes CSP 24  1b      42 158 59 102  6  5  9  3     .373 .646
                 
pcl                 
YEAR LG  TM  AGE PO    TMG   G  AB  H   TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K   AVG  SLG
1951 pcl sac 25  1b    168 145 555 190 259 32 11  5 41 43 27 .342 .467
1952 pcl sea 26  1b of 180 161 641 205 279 29 18  3 33 29 40 .320 .435
                 
american association               
YEAR LG TM  AGE PO TMG  G  AB  H TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG  SLG
1953 aa chr 27  of 154 49 198 64 90  8  6  2 12     .323 .455
                 
int'l league                
YEAR LG TM  AGE PO TMG  G  AB  H TB 2B 3B HR SB BB  K  AVG  SLG
1953 il tor 27  of 154 31 120 37 58  4  4  3  1  7 10 .308 .483
                 
texas league                
YEAR LG  TM  AGE PO TMG   G AB    H TB  2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG  SLG
1954 txl hou 28  1b 162  94 358 115 162 22  2  7 13     .321 .453
1955 txl hou 29  1b 163 635 197 293  39  6 15 13        .310 .461
                 
cuban winter league               
YEAR LG TM    AGE PO TMG  G AB  H  TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG  SLG
1949 cwl hab  23  1b 72   9 36  9  10  1  0  0  4     .250 .278
1954 cwl cien 28  1b 72 70 292 90 121  8  4  5  3     .308 .414
1955 cwl cien 29  1b 72    285 89 119 11  2  5  5     .312 .418
1956 cwl cien 30  1b 72     38  8   9  1  0  0        .211 .237
                 
prwl                 
YEAR LG   TM  AGE PO TMG  G  AB   H  TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG  SLG
1951 prwl pon 25  1b  70 72 305 114 148 18  5  2  3     .374 .485
1952 prwl pon 26  1b     72 293  82 116 10  3  6 11     .280 .396

   4. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: December 01, 2005 at 05:17 PM (#1755115)
Bob Boyd MLEs

LG AGE PO  AVG  OBP  SLG    G   PA   AB    H   TB  BB ops+ sfws
---------------------------------------------------------------
NL 20  1B                 No MLE Credit         
NL 21  1B .296 .352 .440  141  580  534  158  235  46 109  19.0
NL 22  1B .328 .387 .447  154  641  585  192  261  56 125  24.9
NL 23  1B .331 .389 .478  141  587  536  177  256  51 131  25.2
AL 24  1B .314 .373 .465  150  624  570  179  265  54 119  24.2
AL 25  1B .310 .369 .360  153  607  556  172  200  51  97  16.0
AL 26  1B .266 .306 .317  143  573  542  144  172  31  73   8.5
AL 27  1B .292 .338 .396  135  508  469  137  186  35  97  13.6
AL 28  1B .264 .321 .311  149  554  510  135  159  43  74   8.6
AL 29  1B .278 .330 .358  150  617  572  159  205  45  86  13.2
AL 30  1B .311 .395 .400   70  262  225   70   90  30 111   8.1
AL 31  1B .318 .388 .408  141  552  485  154  198  55 119  17.8
AL 32  1B .309 .500 .439  125  432  401  124  176  25 162  14.3
AL 33  1B .265 .312 .345  128  461  415  110  143  29  81   7.7
AL 34  1B .317 .364 .427   71   88   82   26   35   6 114   3.7
AL 35  1B .236 .247 .258   62   93   89    2   23   2  36  -1.2
===============================================================
TOTAL     .295 .348 .396 1913 7179 6571 1939 2603 559 101 203.4


I'm wondering a bit about whether the QOP issue is coming up after 1946 in a dramatic way. We're seeing the MLE routine spitting out a lot of early peaks....

Anyway, Boyd's kind of Buckneresque in a way, though sans the speed and outfielding. They both hit for a good average, both are around 100 OPS, both were non-traditional 1B (in that they didn't hit for much power), and both were line-drive type hitters who didn't walk too often. Boyd walked more than Buckner, Buckner hit more homers.
   5. Gadfly Posted: December 02, 2005 at 06:09 AM (#1756299)
Doc-

I hate to do this to you again, but, after Boyd's recent death, it came out that he was born in 1919, not 1925 or 1926 as usually reported. Also, the Rope was drafted early in 1941 (like Hank Greenberg) and basically missed all of 1941 to 1945 while in the military. His NAL years, 1946 to 1950, are all peak (by the way, his final 1949 numbers are G-AB-R-H-2B-3B-HR-RBI-SB/80-309-59-114-24-4-8-55-11).

Amazingly, Boyd played on in the Minors until he was 44 and then until he was 50 as a semi-pro. The guy could literally fall out of bed and smack line drives. If I get a chance I'll edit down this ridiculously long study on Willard Brown that got completely sidetracked by Boyd, Les Fleming, and the 1954 Texas League until I didn't even bother to post it on Willard's thread.
   6. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: December 02, 2005 at 02:08 PM (#1756418)
Gadfly,

No problem, I'm always ready to revise. I'll repost with the new information in mind. Do you know what Boyd's pre NAL baseball activities were?
   7. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: December 26, 2005 at 05:23 PM (#1794509)
Shouldn't Bus Clarkson be included in the 1954 Texas League analysis in some way?
   8. BTL 4th Class Primate Trainee for Life! Posted: September 07, 2017 at 05:48 PM (#5528126)
Ok I have been waiting 11 years for the Bob Boyd revised MLEs. Had to reregister just to ask about :) Are those maybe in a different location? Looks like he didn't begin playing until he was 27 years old --in an interview with him around 2004 he states his career began with the Memphis Red Sox (where he played 47-49). And sabr bio seems to indicate he didn't start playing until then, though maybe he played sporadically or semipro or while in military service?
   9. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: September 08, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5528433)
BTL,

I will have updated MLEs for Boyd in Q4 this year or Q1 next year. So if you can wait just a little longer.... I'm first going through the HOF/HOM members at each position, then through the leading other candidates. Those results will be posted at The Hall of Miller and Eric (HoMEmlb.wordpress.com) starting later this month. I will cross-link in appropriate player threads as results are posted.
   10. BTL 4th Class Primate Trainee for Life! Posted: September 11, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5529558)
Thanks so much for responding. The MLEs are great, many thanks for sharing all your work!
   11. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: September 18, 2017 at 09:43 PM (#5534076)
Re post #10: Just FYI that I've looked into Boyd. I think we need to see what his translated Negro Leagues numbers look like for 1947-1948 before saying anything with certainty. However, just based on all the other data that we do have, he's looking like roughly a 30 WAR player by my reckoning. That's giving him career-average performance for 1947-1950 (not enough data to translate him in those seasons), amalgamating performances in major and minor leagues from 1950-1955, and his actual MLB numbers from 1956-1961, while excluding his MiL numbers from 1962-1964. Boyd started his career late due to the war, age 27. So there's no real ramp up. That affects his value, but at this point, he doesn't have enough of a bat to earn more than 4 WAR in a given season. That's with giving him decent speed (about +2 or 3 Rbaser a year), very good DP avoidance (+24 career based on MLB career rate), and a decent glove (2 or 3 Rfield a year, give or take, prior to age 36). But the 1B position adjustment is about -7 per 154, and in his best years in MLB he never topped 20 Rbat. He was usually around 8 to 10. That's what happens when you play 1B and you're not Keith Hernandez. He racks up only 78 Rbat and that's nearly all eaten alive by his -71 Rpos. We don't have any evidence suggesting he was Keith Hernandez, either. His MLB Rfield rates are slightly below average, and DRA tells precisely the same story.

But as I mentioned, should the 1947-1948 data show him to be a lot better hitter during his 20s peak, he could be better. Probably not enough to be an All-Star type player (5 WAR). I don't translate component stats anymore, so I can't offer granularity like that.
   12. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: September 18, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5534078)
Oh, and, yes, I corrected the age discrepancy noted by Gadfly above in my current work.

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