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Monday, March 21, 2005

Charlie Gehringer

Charlie Gehringer

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 21, 2005 at 12:12 AM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 21, 2005 at 12:24 AM (#1208744)
If he had starred during the eighties, would his nickname have been "Mr. Roboto?"
   2. yest Posted: March 21, 2005 at 01:39 AM (#1208881)
is it just me or is he underrated?
   3. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 21, 2005 at 01:48 AM (#1208890)
is it just me or is he underrated?

I doubt the average fan knows anything about him, but the serious fan can't come away with great respect for his achievements (though his offensive numbers overrate him somewhat with certain groups).

If he had been been eligible in '47, I would have had him at #3 (behind Grove and Hartnett). That's not an insult to him in anyway.
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: March 21, 2005 at 04:33 AM (#1209142)
I like him better than Hartnett..
   5. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: March 21, 2005 at 05:37 AM (#1209257)
Looks like an easy HOMer to me. The bigger question is Who will be number two on the ballot behind him...?
   6. OCF Posted: March 21, 2005 at 06:34 PM (#1209774)
My modified RCAA system sees him as similar in overall offensive value to Goslin, with maybe a little more in his best years. This method also pinpoints the three-year stretch 1934-1936 as his offensive peak.

In other word, I'm saying he has enough offense to make the HoM had he been a corner outfielder. I see him as being well ahead of Frisch.

Among second basemen in history, we have a top group of Collins, Hornsby, Lajoie, and presumably Morgan. We have the Frisch/Sandberg/Alomar cluster (which has several other members). I have Gehringer as maybe not quite Lajoie but well above that other cluster.

I once heard as a family story that a relative-by-mariage of mine (the wife of an uncle) was somehow related to Gehringer. Having never tracked that down, I can't vouch for it.
   7. andrew siegel Posted: March 21, 2005 at 06:54 PM (#1209804)
Gehringer was almost an exact contemporary of Jud Wilson, with very similar career length. I think they had similar power and they would have had roughly similar career hit totals (though I suspect Wilson would have been at least a little bit higher). Basically, there are two differences between them--Wilson would have walked about 20 or 25 more times per year and Gehringer was a good 2B while Wilson's defensive value is up in the air. I think the difference between the two of them is within the margin of error created by the limits of our knowledge about Wilson (particularly his defense). Since I'm pushed to choose between them by our ballot structure, I lean towards Gehringer b/c/ of what I suspect is a substantial defensive difference. I remain open to persuasion, however.
   8. Daryn Posted: March 22, 2005 at 05:15 PM (#1211095)
His most similar player is Roberto Alomar. When defense is considered I'm not sure who should get 5th spot all-time at 2b. I'm a little biased because Alomar, in my view, is the best all-around player I have ever seen play the sport. Irod's close. Rickey's close but was never a great fielder, and I'm an AL fan so I haven't really seen Bonds play much.
   9. jimd Posted: March 22, 2005 at 07:30 PM (#1211277)
WARP-3 126.8 Alomar
WARP-3 126.6 Gehringer

BP sees Alomar as the better hitter, Gehringer as the better fielder, though the differences are not large. Gehringer stands out much more in his own time (WARP-1, probably Win Shares) due to the overall weaker level of competition pre-integration. (Not to mention Alomar playing in the DH league which splits the offensive Win Shares 9 ways instead of 8.)

Gehringer has a better (more well-defined peak) from 1933-37, corresponding to the Tiger's run as a contender (Champ 1935; WS 34, 40, 2nd place 36, 37). Alomar had great seasons interspersed with mediocre ones, and played on a number of playoff teams (Champ 1992, 93; CS 91, 96, 97; DS 99, 2001) corresponding with his great seasons in 93, 96, 99, 2001.

They both seem like easy choices to me.
   10. jingoist Posted: March 23, 2005 at 11:23 PM (#1213387)
Jimd, I'm inclined to give a slight disagreement with your assertions that Alomar had mediocre seasons interspersed with great ones.
I don't think he was ever mediocre until 2002 when his back and legs began to fail him. I think I read where he claims his eyesight has begun to fail him to the degree he can no longer see good enough to hit ML pitching.
Too bad.
I thought Roberto certainly a better all around 2B-man than anyone else during the 1990's from a pure talent perspective although Biggio certainly rivals Roberto as a hitter.
   11. sunnyday2 Posted: March 24, 2005 at 06:19 PM (#1214638)
Career of Peak?

For peak, I see Charlie as maybe the #6 to 8 2B. But for career, a clear #5.
   12. Chris Cobb Posted: March 24, 2005 at 09:00 PM (#1214954)
FWIW, here' s how I have the second basemen, all-time, at present:

Eddie Collins
Rogers Hornsby
Joe Morgan
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Roberto Alomar
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Craig Biggio
Bobby Grich
Ross Barnes
Rod Carew
   13. jimd Posted: March 25, 2005 at 08:15 PM (#1216493)
I don't think he was ever mediocre until 2002

In retrospect, mediocre was a little harsh when characterizing borderline all-star seasons. OTOH, they weren't close to his best, which were truly great.

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