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Sunday, February 11, 2007

Darrell Evans

Eligible in 1995.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 11, 2007 at 09:22 PM | 228 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   201. rawagman Posted: February 18, 2007 at 09:47 PM (#2299733)
Chris - you've shown me the error of that line of thought - I'll re-adjust my spreadsheet when I get back to the office.
   202. Mike Emeigh Posted: February 18, 2007 at 10:13 PM (#2299736)
Similarly when defensive metrics do not support subjective or anecdotal evidence, I suspect that it nearly always right to believe the metrics and assume that the reputations (both good and bad) are built on non-scientific data and subject to human biases.


Metrics have their own set of biases. Defensive Win Shares, for example, gives a lot of weight to range factor (even though James is well aware of the limitations and attempt to account for them, he doesn't go far enough), and we know that range factor is heavily dependent on the characteristics of the pitching staff; it's nearly impossible for an outfielder to have a good range factor when he is playing behind a ground ball staff. Many zone-based metrics aren't adjusted for park characteristics, leading (for example) to Boston left fielders being penalized for failing to make plays on balls that hit the Monster.

For pre-PBP era players, I think that one should look at consensus opinion of the observers of the era as the best way to evaluate defensive prowess.

-- MWE
   203. Steve Treder Posted: February 19, 2007 at 01:09 AM (#2299771)
In 1972, he appeared in 125 games, with a 4.17 PA/g rate. His low number of games was because he was given the starting job when Clete Boyer was canned.

No. It was 1971 when Boyer was canned, and Evans took over as the regular in the second half.

In 1972, his low number of games was due to a two-week stint in the National Guard in June/July, as well as a week missed to injury in September, as well as the season being shortened by one week due to the strike.

Since they have mentioned that Evans was frequently lifted for defensive replacements in the late innings

Occasionally in 1973, not frequently, and rarely thereafter.
   204. Steve Treder Posted: February 19, 2007 at 01:14 AM (#2299772)
The folks who have provided first-hand info about Evans have not mentioned anything about platooning, so I would be rather surprised if that was the case.

That's correct. Evans handled LHPs pretty well, and was never used in a sustained L-R platoon status.
   205. Chris Cobb Posted: February 19, 2007 at 01:17 AM (#2299773)
Thank you for the corrections and amplications.

Did Evans miss any other time due to National Gaurd duty? (I will give him credit for that -- not that two weeks of credit will tip the balance . . . )

Since they have mentioned that Evans was frequently lifted for defensive replacements in the late innings

Occasionally in 1973, not frequently, and rarely thereafter.


Does this statement apply to his time in San Francisco as well? I am curious about the reasons for Evans' low PA/g totals in 1976, 1977, and 1982, then. Possibly in 1976-77 he was lower in the batting order, but I wouldn't think that would be sufficient to account for the whole drop.
   206. Steve Treder Posted: February 19, 2007 at 01:33 AM (#2299777)
Did Evans miss any other time due to National Gaurd duty?

No, just that stint in '72.

Does this statement apply to his time in San Francisco as well?

Yes. When Evans was the regular third baseman in San Francisco, there never was a regular pattern of replacing him for defense in late innings.

I am curious about the reasons for Evans' low PA/g totals in 1976, 1977, and 1982, then. Possibly in 1976-77 he was lower in the batting order, but I wouldn't think that would be sufficient to account for the whole drop.

In '76 he was in a pretty much season-long batting slump, and was only a semi-regular after being acquired by the Giants. He pinch hit a fair amount, and was inserted himself as a defensive replacement at first base several times.

In '77 he resurrected his career by dramatically changing his batting approach: adopting an open stance and becoming more contact-oriented, and less of a strict pull hitter, though he would gradually revert to his earlier approach as his career progressed. But in '77 he didn't have a full-time starting job, but was used instead as more or less a LF-1B supersub, often en enterting games as a PH. In September he was given the starting 3B job when they moved Madlock to 2B.

In '82 the Giants got the ridiculous idea that Tom O'Malley should take over at 3B, and Evans was once again used as a PH on occasion.
   207. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 19, 2007 at 02:38 AM (#2299790)
Just for kicks, from bb-ref with love.

PA  HR  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 
--------------------------------------------
Evans Career  10737 414 .248 .361 .431 .792

                 PA  HR  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 
--------------------------------------------
Evans vsRHP  7672 317 .251 .367 .444 .811 
Evans vs
LHP  3005  95 .238 .345 .398 .743

                 PA  HR  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 
--------------------------------------------
Evans at Home  5272 219 .248 .365 .442 .807
Evans Away     5465 195 .247 .357 .420 .777

                 PA  HR  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 
--------------------------------------------
Evans as 1B    3232 146 .242 .356 .442 .798
Evans 
as 3B    5906 201 .253 .366 .426 .792
Evans 
as DH     971  50 .241 .356 .462 .818 


I don't see anything really dramatic here. His home-away ratio is about 4%, well within normal. His R/L ratio is 9% in favor of righties, well within normal, particuarly for a lefty swinger.
   208. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 19, 2007 at 02:56 AM (#2299805)
Totally incidental. Darrell Evans is probably the best player in MLB history from Pasedena, CA. Here's the city's All-Star team.

3B Jeff Cirillo
2B Chase Utley
1B Darrell Evans
DH Bruce Bochte
RF Dick Cox
C Dave Hostetler
LF Don Ross
CF Mark Smith
SS Rob Wilfong

SP Mike McCormick
SP Matt Young
SP Alan Foster
SP Jerry Jankeski

RP Tim Worrell
RP George Throop
RP Rich Hunter
RP Justin Germano

Well the top of the order ain't awful, but the defense is going to be problematic at SS and especially CF. The rotation's pretty much the definition of slightly below average, and after Worrell, the bullpen's scary. But at least the city can make a team. Marshalltown, Iowa, can't say the same. Evans is pretty clearly the main attraction on this squad, though, perhaps Chase Utley may someday be able to make his own claim to a great career.
   209. OCF Posted: February 19, 2007 at 03:26 AM (#2299815)
Totally incidental. Darrell Evans is probably the best player in MLB history from Pasedena, CA.

What do you mean by "from"? Place of birth shouldn't be the only criterion. Open it up to a certain graduate of Muir HS who then attended Pasadena City College before transfering to UCLA, and I think you've got a better 2B than Chase Utley and a better overall player than Evans.
   210. Brent Posted: February 19, 2007 at 04:14 AM (#2299823)
PA HR AVG OBP SLG OPS
--------------------------------------------
Evans vs. RHP 7672 317 .251 .367 .444 .811
Evans vs. LHP 3005 95 .238 .345 .398 .743


28 percent of plate appearances versus LHP is consistent with Steve Treder's statement that Evans wasn't regularly platooned. For comparison with some other LHBs, see the <a >Norm Cash</a> thread.
   211. Brent Posted: February 19, 2007 at 04:38 AM (#2299828)
Let me try that again. The Norm Cash thread.
   212. Howie Menckel Posted: February 20, 2007 at 03:46 AM (#2300300)
career OPS+ as regular, best season to worst

DarrEvans 156 50 38 35 35 21 21 21 18 18 18 16 11 10 06 06 05/80
Sal Bando 152 50 37 36 30 28 27 16 07/99 98 83
Ron Cey.. 144 43 42 38 33 22 18 13 13 11 06 04/93
GrNettles 135 27 24 20 19 15 14 12 11 09 08 05 00/98 97
BoElliott 147 45 40 35 34 34 26 23 16 12 05 01/99
Ken-Boyer 143 35 30 30 24 23 21 15 00/94 93 91

DEvans as 3B 156 35 21 21 21 18 18 18 11 10
SBando as 3B 152 50 37 36 30 28 27 16 07/99 98 83
RonCey as 3B 144 43 42 38 33 22 18 13 13 11 06 04/93
GrNettles 3B 135 27 24 20 19 15 14 12 11 09 08 05 00/98 97
BoElliott 3B 147 45 40 35 34 34 26 23 16 01
Ken Boyer 3B 143 35 30 30 24 23 21 15 00

Elliott had the 116 in 1945 with 81 G at 3B and 61 OF.
Evans had a 118 in 1982 with 84 G at 3B and 62 at 1B/SS.

FYI, Elliott didn't appear to benefit as much as some from playing in 1943-45 (134-34-16); his best years came after that, actually.

So what does it all mean, once we start accounting for defense? I haven't gotten that far yet....
   213. Howie Menckel Posted: February 20, 2007 at 03:54 AM (#2300304)
Boyer of course is in there as the ultimate borderline modern HOMer. If you don't beat him, you probably don't belong...
   214. Paul Wendt Posted: February 23, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2302547)
FYI, Elliott didn't appear to benefit as much as some from playing in 1943-45 (134-34-16); his best years came after that, actually.

This isn't much of a selling point.
   215. Howie Menckel Posted: February 24, 2007 at 02:24 AM (#2302617)
Paul,
I suspect some voters have shied away from Elliott on a feeling that he's a 3B-OF, and that he benefited from the war. I think both effects are exaggerated, so noting that he didn't particularly gain from the war might prevent someone from thinking that.
If a note stops hurting a guy, that would be helping him, basically.

I've noted before, not claiming to have any direct evidence of what I say. I just know I had those preconceptions myself before I looked closer.

Adding Buddy Bell to my lists:

career OPS+ as regular, best season to worst

DarrEvans 156 50 38 35 35 21 21 21 18 18 18 16 11 10 06 06 05/80
Sal Bando 152 50 37 36 30 28 27 16 07/99 98 83
Ron Cey.. 144 43 42 38 33 22 18 13 13 11 06 04/93
GraNettles 135 27 24 20 19 15 14 12 11 09 08 05 00/98 97
BuddyBell 142 33 29 26 19 14 09 07 06 05 03 00 00/98 95 80
Bob Elliott 147 45 40 35 34 34 26 23 16 12 05 01/99
Ken-Boyer 143 35 30 30 24 23 21 15 00/94 93 91

DEvans as 3B 156 35 21 21 21 18 18 18 11 10
SBando as 3B 152 50 37 36 30 28 27 16 07/99 98 83
RonCey as 3B 144 43 42 38 33 22 18 13 13 11 06 04/93
GraNettles 3B 135 27 24 20 19 15 14 12 11 09 08 05 00/98 97
BuddyBell 3B 142 33 29 26 19 14 09 07 06 05 03 00 00/95 80
Bob Elliott 3B 147 45 40 35 34 34 26 23 16 01
Ken Boyer 3B 143 35 30 30 24 23 21 15 00
   216. Paul Wendt Posted: February 24, 2007 at 03:46 AM (#2302649)
This isn't much of a selling point for Ken Boyer.
:-)

OK, peak/prime voters should not shy away from Elliott for his outfield years.

Does anyone know about the immortal Lee "Jeep" Elliott: So slick a glove as his batting record suggests? The regular 3Bman 1937-41, was the job his to lose upon return in 1945-46?
   217. Paul Wendt Posted: February 24, 2007 at 03:47 AM (#2302650)
That is,
Does anyone know about the immortal Lee Handley?
   218. Mike Emeigh Posted: February 24, 2007 at 08:15 PM (#2302819)
Does anyone know about the immortal Lee Handley?


Handley came up as a second baseman, and after playing there regularly in 1937, he was moved permanently to 3B in 1938. From what I can tell, Handley's defense was always considered to be a plus.

-- MWE
   219. Guapo Posted: February 24, 2007 at 09:16 PM (#2302841)
For what it's worth, Bill James describes Evans as "the second-best defensive third baseman in the NL in the 1970s, though he never got credit for it" in the 1983 Abstract.

Where is Evans now?
   220. DCW3 Posted: February 24, 2007 at 09:39 PM (#2302850)
From that link:

During the 1970’s and 80’s, Evan's (sic) was considered to be the premier third baseman in Major League Baseball.

Well, it's not like there were any really great third basemen around in the '70s and '80s...
   221. Paul Wendt Posted: February 25, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2302910)
Pendleton didn't get the attention until the '90s, after moving to Atlanta and TBS.
   222. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 25, 2007 at 03:08 AM (#2302935)
Where is Evans now?

His/a phone number is listed there. If he gets into the HOM, we can let him know by phone....

[touches nose with index finger] Not it!
   223. OCF Posted: February 25, 2007 at 04:25 AM (#2302952)
Note that the Armada won't even start playing until midsummer. (The ballpark - Blair Field - has the Long Beach State team as its primary tenant before then.) I wouldn't expect that Evans is going to be "in the office" at this time.
   224. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 25, 2007 at 02:18 PM (#2303028)
His/a phone number is listed there. If he gets into the HOM, we can let him know by phone....

Joe can pretend he is the late Jack Lang. :-)
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