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Sunday, August 19, 2007

Dennis Martinez and Jimmy Key

Eligible in 2004.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 19, 2007 at 04:32 PM | 17 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 19, 2007 at 04:34 PM (#2491399)
El Presidente's second half of his career is actually better than his first half.
   2. sunnyday2 Posted: August 19, 2007 at 05:35 PM (#2491434)
Way too many similar pitchers, such as Lon Warneke and Paul Derringer.
   3. Squash Posted: August 19, 2007 at 06:10 PM (#2491487)
Is BB-Ref messed up for everyone? The columns have been all screwy for me for awhile.
   4. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: August 19, 2007 at 09:07 PM (#2491770)
So take Eck through age 32 and combine with el Prez after age 31, you'd have quite a career.
   5. OCF Posted: August 20, 2007 at 12:03 AM (#2491869)
RA+ equivalent record 231-203. The best stretch of his career came late, as John and Doc C said:

1987 10-6
1988 14-12
1989 15-11
1990 15-10
1991 16-9
1992 16-9
1993 13-12
1994 13-7
1995 14-7
   6. OCF Posted: August 20, 2007 at 01:00 AM (#2491900)
Way too many similar pitchers, such as Lon Warneke and Paul Derringer.

Martinez: 231-203, "big years" score of 3.
Warneke: 184-128, "big years" score of 38.
Derringer: 216-189, "big year" score of 17.

Warneke is a different type, with a shorter career and a higher peak. For comparisons, look also at

Jack Morris: 226-199, "big years" score of 9.
Larry Jackson: 200-162, "big years" score of 6.
   7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 21, 2007 at 02:15 PM (#2493325)
Jimmy Key has been added to this thread.
   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 21, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2493344)
Just looking over Jimmy Key's career and I completely forgot that he pitched for the O's and that they were really good back then. I really don't remember the O's-M's playoff series, and I barely remember the O's-Indians ALCS (wasn't there a big Tony Fernandez home run?)

Of course, I was in college, and there is much I don't remember from those days.
   9. OCF Posted: August 21, 2007 at 03:29 PM (#2493387)
Key: RA+ equivalent record of 171-117, which is better than I remembered. One monster year in 1987 at an equivalent 20-9. (It's also the only time he had more than 230-240 IP. We're running into the IP limitations of modern starters.) Also had an equivalent 17-9 in 1993. Better than Gooden, better than Hershiser, almost as good as Saberhagen, and I'll probably take him over Martinez because of his big years. That still may not get him a ballot spot, but at least he gets a close look.
   10. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 21, 2007 at 03:38 PM (#2493393)
The Jimmy Key signing was a big part of what pulled the Yankees out of the Oscar Azocar era.

I've told this story before, but I'll add it here. In college winter 1992-93 we were watching the 2 a.m. SportsCenter in the lounge of the dorm (no cable in the rooms back then) when the report came across that Greg Maddux took less money to sign with the Braves than the Yankees because he, 'wanted to play for a winner'. Inebriated and infuriated I broke a chair against the wall, thinking the Yankees were relegated to another few years of being terrible.

Don't forget Bernie Williams was a disappointment thus far, and there wasn't a lot of hope on the horizon.

The Yankees settled for Jimmy Key. Key was awesome in 1993, the Yankees were in the race (I believe there were within a game or two going into an early August series with the Blue Jays, where they got crushed).

Flash to Game 6 of the 1996 World Series, and Jimmy Key beats Greg Maddux to win it all. Talk about poetic justice. The greatest day of my life so far.
   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 21, 2007 at 03:48 PM (#2493396)
I also remember Jimmy Key from that old Sports Center commercial where they drafted a kid right out of high school to anchor the show. He turned out to be a huge bust on his first show when he bust out: "the Orioles signed Jimmy Key. What is he, like 60?!?!?!"
   12. Loren F. Posted: August 21, 2007 at 03:54 PM (#2493401)
The Yankees were not just in the race in 1993, but they were tied for 1st with the Blue Jays about 20 times over a three-month span. They were last tied Sept. 5, then the Yankees finished the year 10-14, while the Jays, a better team, went 17-7. New York finished 7 games back. It wasn't Key's fault, though: in Sept./Oct., he went 3-1 with a 2.95 ERA in 39.2 IP (and no UER).
   13. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: August 21, 2007 at 04:04 PM (#2493412)
Gotta love YouTube:

"Jimmy Key, what's he like... 45? I could hit him!"
   14. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: August 21, 2007 at 04:35 PM (#2493441)
Loren, I was at the Yankees/Orioles game at Camden Yards the last Monday of the season. Pretty sure Scott Kamieniecki pitched, since he pitched approximately 99 44/100% of the Yankee games I went to in the early 90s.

It was awesome because the Yankees won, so were still alive (we went into the game tied with Baltimore still), until Toronto's game finished like 1/2 hour later. So while we were leaving we heckled those O's fans, with things like, "we're still in the race", "nice to be in a pennant race," "it's all over", etc. It was a lot of fun.
   15. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 21, 2007 at 04:48 PM (#2493462)
Hey, hey, Jimmy Key was the winning pitcher in TWO World Series clinchers! (One in relief, but still...)

Pretty sure Scott Kamieniecki pitched, since he pitched approximately 99 44/100% of the Yankee games I went to in the early 90s.

You mean you missed the whole Scott Sanderson Era? What a shame.
   16. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: August 21, 2007 at 09:56 PM (#2493851)
sadly, you tube doesn't have any of the baseball detectives ads. those were awesome.
   17. sydhe Posted: August 22, 2007 at 04:47 AM (#2494729)
Dennis Martinez was 15-16 for the 1979 Orioles and 7-16 for the 1983 Orioles. He wasn't really bad in 1979 (110 ERA+) but was in 1983 (71 ERA+). On the other hand, he was 12-5 with a 150 ERA+ for the 1995 Indians. Never won more that 16 games in a season.

He's one of my borders for the Hall of Fame. A good pitcher who shouldn't go in the Hall of Fame, and if a pitcher is not as good as him, that ends the discussion.

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