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Monday, January 29, 2007

Don Baylor

Eligible in 1994.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 29, 2007 at 01:28 AM | 17 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 29, 2007 at 01:31 AM (#2287788)
Hit him? He laughs at your beanballs!
   2. DavidFoss Posted: January 29, 2007 at 06:08 PM (#2288225)
Where did Baylor usually get hit? Did Baylor wear body armor?

Biggio has passed him and Biggio is just five short of Jennings' all-time mark.
   3. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: January 29, 2007 at 06:14 PM (#2288232)
Where did Baylor usually get hit? Did Baylor wear body armor?

Usually the shoulder. No body armor and the beanings never seemed to affect him at all. Pitchers hated him, I think, as he would sometimes just stand there with a look of abject boredom on his face as the ball hit him. It was impressive.
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 29, 2007 at 06:42 PM (#2288266)
I don't think I ever saw Baylor rub his arm after he was hit there. Even in the cold weather, he would just shrug it off.
   5. JPWF13 Posted: January 30, 2007 at 04:00 AM (#2288774)
Not really relevant, but back in the 80s I made the mistake of buying one of the abstract imitators (Not the Elias Analyst), foget what it was called, but it was organized like The Scouting Notebook.

Anyway, this was when Baylor and Winfield were teammates- the capsule on Don Baylor was embarrassing- gushing fanboy stuff, and concluded with something like, "while most haven't thought of Don Baylor and the Hall of Fame, a good look at his numbers indicates that eventual enshrinement is a very good possibility"

The capsule on Winfield said something like, "the nagging sense that he hasn't lived up to his potential, a careful look at his career numbers indicates that he'll fall well short of the Hall of Fame standards that was predicted for him.

Their career numbers were printed on each other's respective pages- Winfield, despite being 3 years YOUNGER was ahead of Baylor in everything except HBP and a few steals, more homers, RBI, hits, higher batting average, slugging, obp, still great defensively while Baylor had graduated to FT DH duties.
   6. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 31, 2007 at 10:37 PM (#2289490)
Anyway, this was when Baylor and Winfield were teammates- the capsule on Don Baylor was embarrassing- gushing fanboy stuff, and concluded with something like, "while most haven't thought of Don Baylor and the Hall of Fame, a good look at his numbers indicates that eventual enshrinement is a very good possibility"

The capsule on Winfield said something like, "the nagging sense that he hasn't lived up to his potential, a careful look at his career numbers indicates that he'll fall well short of the Hall of Fame standards that was predicted for him.


Boy, that's embarrassing.
   7. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: January 31, 2007 at 10:49 PM (#2289504)
A better player than manager, I think. In that he joins plenty of others, like Dustyball, Walter Johnson, Cobb, Speaker, Ted Williams, Yogi, Bresnahan, Doby, Frank Robinson. Probably Gil Hodges and Al Dark too. Etc....

On the other end of things, Alston, Mack, Billy Martin, McCarthy, Stengel, Durocher, LaRussa, Hanlon, Scioscia, Southworth, Lasorda, Dick Williams, etc....

In the difficult to figure middleground: Uncle Wilbert, Torre, Brenley, Bucky Harris, Felipe Alou, Hargrove, Larry Bowa (cough), Lou Piniella, etc....
   8. vortex of dissipation Posted: January 31, 2007 at 11:01 PM (#2289518)
A better player than manager, I think. In that he joins plenty of others, like Dustyball, Walter Johnson, Cobb, Speaker, Ted Williams, Yogi, Bresnahan, Doby, Frank Robinson. Probably Gil Hodges and Al Dark too. Etc...

To be fair, if either Johnson, Cobb, or Williams had been better managers than players, they would have been among the five best managers ever - an awfully difficult task.

Where would John McGraw fit? McGraw's career was fairly short (I believe he quit playing regularly when he was still a good ballplayer, to concentrate on managing), but that lifetime .466 OBP looks very impressive.
   9. Squash Posted: January 31, 2007 at 11:08 PM (#2289522)
I remember being really excited as a young A's fan when he had his late career cup of coffee. He was just one of "those guys".
   10. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 01, 2007 at 12:15 AM (#2289569)
Where would John McGraw fit? McGraw's career was fairly short (I believe he quit playing regularly when he was still a good ballplayer, to concentrate on managing), but that lifetime .466 OBP looks very impressive.

Here's the way I would rate his two careers: while he has fans among the electorate as a player, he has virtually no chance of ever being elected to the HoM. That wont be the case for the Manager/Executive HoM.
   11. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 01, 2007 at 12:53 AM (#2289603)
Here's the way I would rate his two careers: while he has fans among the electorate as a player, he has virtually no chance of ever being elected to the HoM. That wont be the case for the Manager/Executive HoM.

Makes perfect sense. I realised after I posted that it was a bit of a silly question; McGraw is in the running as the greatest manager ever, while he obviously isn't in the running as the greatest player ever. Which should have answered my own question!

However, the point I was trying to make (badly!) is that he was a very good player, a better one than many realise.
   12. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 01, 2007 at 12:58 AM (#2289605)
However, the point I was trying to make (badly!) is that he was a very good player, a better one than many realise.

Oh, definitely! In fact, if he had stayed healthy, he would have been in the running for greatest third baseman ever.
   13. OCF Posted: February 01, 2007 at 01:41 AM (#2289623)
A better player than manager, I think. In that [Baylor] joins plenty of others, like Dustyball, ..., Cobb, Speaker, Ted Williams, ..., Doby, Frank Robinson.

Conventional wisdom - or maybe it's conventional bias - says that catchers and middle infielders make the best managers, and outfielders the worst. That's another bit of stereotyping that has stood in the way of there being more African-American managers; the set of expectations that made it far more likely for them to outfielders than any other position are putting them in the wrong part of the field for them to be managers-to-be.

Of course, the other problem with finding African-American managers is that it seems that there's been more focus in their case on those who have been stars (Baylor, Baker) or even superstars (Robinson). Shouldn't the search really be for the next Cito Gaston?

[But for all that there's more to Frank Robinson, manager than as an old man in the 21st century; managers have career arcs, too.]
   14. Dag is a salt water fish in fresh water world Posted: February 01, 2007 at 01:57 AM (#2289627)
Pitchers hated him, I think

Definately. But were talking about his playing career, not managerial one.

A better player than manager, I think.

Understatement of the year. Don Baylor was the Idi Amin of baseball. Big, tough guy who committed all sorts of atrocities when given an administrative authority over others and seemed more concerned with self-promotion than effectively doing his duties.
   15. Bunny Vincennes Posted: February 02, 2007 at 09:28 AM (#2290560)
he would sometimes just stand there with a look of abject boredom on his face

Well that translated into the Don Baylor/Dusty Baker career model.
   16. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 02, 2007 at 09:48 AM (#2290561)
Baylor got hit on the hip, ass, and the small of the back a lot as a Yankee DH. He'd swing his upper body, swivelling his shoulders and lifting his bat over his head to indicate he was "getting out of the way," while his lower torso would move about 0.005 degrees.
   17. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: February 05, 2007 at 04:49 PM (#2292077)
Also, about Baylor, but as a kid I thought it was interesting that he appeared in 3 straight World Series with 3 different teams. Boston, Minnesota, then the A's. I can't imagine many players have lucked into that. I think those appearances made it seem as if he were some kind of great leader that helped teams get over the hump and led to his managerial career.

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