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— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Wednesday, May 26, 2004

Frank Grant

Elected to the Hall of Merit in 1926, but feel free to post commentary here too.

Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: May 26, 2004 at 07:43 AM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Howie Menckel Posted: August 04, 2006 at 12:52 PM (#2126705)
This one on Frank Grant's unmarked grave ran on July 30 in the North Jersey Herald-News, about a 30,000-circ paper in the Paterson, NJ area:

http://northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2OTY5MTA3

And this one ran on Aug 2 in The Record, about a 170,000-circ paper in the Bergen County, NJ area:

http://northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk5JmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2OTY5ODEy

They're sister publications, as you can see from the link names..
   2. Brent Posted: August 27, 2006 at 02:01 AM (#2158147)
Reposting from the 1914 ballot discussion thread:

81. MattB Posted: November 12, 2003 at 11:01 PM (#519031)

Numbers Here! Get your 19th Century Negro League Numbers While They're Hot!

This is from the appendix of the most recent edition of Sol White's History of Colored Base Ball. I don't know how these numbers were derived, or where they came from exactly year-wise or what they completely represent. But for those who wanted "just a little more" about Frank Grant, this might do it.

I apologize in advance for the formatting.

The chart is identified as "Compiled by Bob Davids with the assistance of members of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR), this originally appeared in the Bud Fowler Memorial Project."

I am only including offensive numbers for players for whom more than 2 years of data were compiled. George Williams is listed first, with a .368 average over 2 years of data. Arthur Thomas is listed third, with a .344 over 2 year. Neither, I believe, had very long careers.

Sol White -- Pos. 2/3 -- 5 Yrs of Data -- 152G -- 644AB --169R -- 231H --40(2B) --12(3B) -- 7HR -- 41SB -- .359BA

Frank Grant -- Pos. 2/3 -- 6 Yrs. -- 458G -- 1879AB -- 410R -- 634H -- 123(2B) -- 34(3B) -- 31HR -- 149SB -- .337BA

Bud Fowler -- Pos. 2/P -- 10 Yrs. -- 465G -- 2039 AB -- 455R -- 628H -- 112(2B) -- 38(3B) -- 7HR -- 190SB -- .308BA

Clarence Williams -- C/OF -- 3 Yrs. -- 102G -- 420AB -- 98R -- 126H -- 17(2B)-- 3(3B) -- 1 HR -- 41 SB -- .300BA

Richard Johnson -- C/OF -- 4 Yrs. -- 337G -- 1471AB -- 297R -- 398H -- 63(2B) -- 29(3B) -- 14 HR -- 130 SB -- .271BA

George Stovey -- P/OF -- 6 Yrs. -- 122G -- 464AB -- 68R -- 121H -- 16(2B) -- 3(3B) -- 1 HR -- 28SB -- .261 (also 60-40 record as pitcher)

Jack Frye -- 1B/C -- 5 Yrs. -- 124 G -- 446AB -- 87R -- 113H -- 23(2B) -- 7(3B) -- 3 HR -- 27 SB -- .253BA

Moses Walker -- C/OF -- 5 Yrs. -- 354G -- 1295AB -- 215R -- 293 H -- 15 (2B) -- 4 (3B) -- 100 SB -- .226BA

For those who really want it, I have two years of data for George Williams, Arthur Thomas, Abe Harrison, William Selden (hitting & pitching), William Whyte (pitching) and Robert Higgins (pitching).
   3. Brent Posted: August 27, 2006 at 02:04 AM (#2158150)
Reposting from the 1909 ballot discussion thread:

37. MattB Posted: September 03, 2003 at 12:36 AM (#517268)

Some meat on the bones for Frank Grant. Of course, we will not have the complete picture, but we can interpolate reasonably. . .

Career length: 1886-1903, 18 years, longer than any of the newly eligible players

Year by year, from the beginning:

1886 (age 18): Started with Meridien of the Eastern League. Hit .316 in 177 at bats. Jumped to Buffalo in the International League. Hit .344 in 177 at bats. The league leader (Jon Morrison) his .346. Morrison was 26, and had a short, bad major league career.

1887 (age 19): Full season with Buffalo. Hit .353 in 459 at bats, with 87 runs, 162 hits, 26 doubles, 10 triples, and 11 homers. The 11 homers led the league. The league leader (Ed Crane) hit .428, but he was 25 and had a poor major league career in the years on either side of his IL stint.

1888 (age 20): Full season with Buffalo. Hit .346 in 347 at bats. The league leader (Patsy Donovan) hit .359. Donovan, a year older than Grant, would hit .301 in his major league career and earn 200 win shares.

Note on quality of the International League: In 1890, four IL teams joined the ?majors.? Buffalo went to the Players? League and Syracuse, Toledo and Rochester went to the AA. Buffalo finished in last, bu the AA teams were competitive, finishing collectively at around .500. I think it is reasonable to consider IL play comparable to average AA level play in one of the AA?s low year. Consider that against comparable competition, newly eligible Jack Ryan was hitting .217 in 1890 against AA teams at age 21. Bid McPhee was hitting .228 against the weak AA as a 22 year old in 1882. Compare the quality of Grant?s play to any other 18-20 year old, and see if there is anything close to comparable short of Cap Anson. Hardly anyone breaks .300 before age 24, let alone age 20. The ones who do are stars.

1889 (age 21): No more black players in the IL. Grant goes to the Trenton Cuban Giants in the Middle States League. Hits .313 leading the Giants to a 55-17 record, but those 17 included some forfeits for playing with a non-regulation ball. The forfeits dropped Trenton into second place belong Harrisburg, a ?white team?.

1890 (age 22): Perhaps considering their pennant to close a call in 1889, Harrisburg signs Grant to play for their white team. He hits .333 in 439 at bats, with 99 runs, 146 hits, 29 doubles, 8 triples, and 5 homers.

1891 - 1901 (age 23-33): Unfortunately, the big gap in the historical record is right in the middle of his career, so we have to interpolate a lot. Sol White, a great early black player and manager, considered Frank Grant the best black ballplayer of his time. In 1891, Grant joined the independent NY Big Gorhams and the Cuban Giants. He went 5 for 13 in the Connecticut League before the league folded. Many black teams folded and re-formed in the mid-1890's due to general economic conditions, which were bad. General, he continued to play for the Cuban Giants in the years and parts of years that they existed until 1897, alternating between second base and shortstop. In 1898 and 1899 he switched to the Cuban X-Giants, and in 1900 and 1901 played 2B for the Genuine Cuban Giants. Each of these teams were considered to be among the top two or three black teams in the years that Grant played with them.

1902 (age 34): In 1902, Sol White (who was black) and Walter Schlichter (who was white) put together a team of the great black ballplayers of the time. Frank Grant was one of the Philadelphia Giants? first pick-ups. No individual stats are available, but the team itself went 81-43-2 in its first year. The team them challenged the AL champion Philadelphia A?s, but lost to them 8-3 and 12-9. A respectable showing against some of the best major league baseball players.

1903 (age 35): The Philadelphia Giants improve to 89-37-4. Both the Giants and X-Giants claim the pennant and a play-off is played. The X-Giants beat Grant and company 5 games to 2. Grant is a disappointing 6 for 27 (.222) in the contest and hangs up the shin guards after the series, not knowing that the next year the Giants would pick up star pitcher Rube Foster and coast to the next four (and 5 of the next six) championships.

Conclusions:

1. Regular player from ages 18 to 35, always in the highest league available for play. That?s equal to Bid McPhee, 4 years longer than Hardy Richardson, and 7 longer than Fred Dunlap.

2. Hit over .300 right out of the box consistently in a league that was better in relative terms to AAA today, at least comparable to the lower half of the AA then. This is a feat not matched by any but the best.

3. Had a reputation for his defense.

4. But what about the missing years where we have very few numbers, and only qualitative second hand sources that he was the best or among the best? To the naysayers, a challenge: Name one major league player who (1) played an important defensive position; (2) had a MLE of at least .280 each year between ages 18-20, or even ages 20 and 22 [that?s his lowest average ? 1886 composite ? discounted 15% for International League league quality]; (3) did not flame out, so was still playing in his mid-30's (say, a career of 15+ years); and (4) is not a top-tier HoM candidate.

5. Try to find a comp that fits his curve, recognizing that IL numbers are real, major league transferable numbers. The worst players who come anywhere close at all are Dick Bartell and Tony Fernandez (about 100 WARP each). The best I could find are Arky Vaughn and Frankie Frisch (about 130 WARP each). All four are HoMers in my book, and I don?t think I am required to assume ? given the extrinsic evidence ? that Grant followed the worst possible career path. Among contemporaries, Glasscock and McPhee are the only reasonable equivalents for longevity, and the numbers available offensively are better for Grant.

In case there was doubt, my 1909 ballot will begin:

1. Ed Delahanty

2. Frank Grant . . .
   4. Paul Wendt Posted: July 15, 2007 at 01:49 AM (#2441487)
[copied here by Brent last year]
81. MattB Posted: November 12, 2003 at 11:01 PM (#519031)

Numbers Here! Get your 19th Century Negro League Numbers While They're Hot!

This is from the appendix of the most recent edition of Sol White's History of Colored Base Ball. I don't know how these numbers were derived, or where they came from exactly year-wise or what they completely represent.</i>

Matt/Phillybooster's source is Appendix 15, "Minor Leaguue Career Records of Some of the Best Players of the 19th Century". Those are career batting records of some black players in 19th century minor leagues, as members of both all-black and integrated teams. - compiled by Bob Davids, state of the art sometime in the 1990s

Appendix 16 follows, "Chronological Registry of 19th Century Black Players in Organized Baseball". That is a complete list of all known black players in the 19th century minor leagues by year, league, team, and fielding position. - also compiled by Bob Davids, state of the art sometime in the 1990s

Davids selected 13 batters and 4 pitchers among those with known records for at least two seasons in organized baseball. Matt reproduced the batting records for 8 of the 9 players with at least three seasons, overlooking Ben Boyd and listing the 4 two-season batters in a footnote. Here is that table including Boyd in his place and Extra Bases per Hit (EB/h) in the rightmost column.

Name               Pos    Yrs       G    AB     R     H   2B   3B   HR    SB     BA  EB/h

Sol White          2
/3      5     152   644   169   231   40   12    7    41   .359  .367

Frank Grant        2
/3      6     458  1879   410   634  123   34   31   149   .337  .447

Bud Fowler         2
/P     10     465  2039   455   628  112   38    7   190   .308  .332

Clarence Williams  C
/OF     3     102   420    98   126   17    3    1    41   .300  .206

Richard Johnson    C
/OF     4     337  1471   297   398   63   29   14   130   .271  .409

Ben Boyd           OF       3     102   408    85   107    8    2    1    46   .266  .140

George Stovey      P
/OF     6     122   464    68   121   16    3    1    28   .261  .206 (60-40 as pitcher)

Jack Frye          1B/C     5     124   446    87   113   23    7    3    27   .253  .407

Moses Walker       C
/OF     5     354  1295   215   293   27   15    4   100   .226  .235 


Fowler, Johnson, and Walker played in the minors only as members of integrated teams.

Johnson, Grant, and Walker played the most game per year at 84, 76, and 70. More games than the others because the black teams played in lower leagues that scheduled fewer games or did not complete what they scheduled.

The ten others with batting records published here (including 2-year men George Williams, Arthur Thomas, Abe Harrison, and William Selden) played on black teams during at least two of the three years 1889-1891. Three teams of Cuban Giants then represented Trenton NJ, York PA, and Ansonia CT successively. Also the New York Gorhams represented Philadelphia PA in 1891; several of their players were once or future Cubans. Who else played for at least two of those four teams? William Malone, John Nelson, William Whyte, Frank Bell, Ross Garrison, Andrew Jackson, Oscar Jackson, William Jackson, W.W. Terrill. That is 9, total 19. So Davids selected about half, presumably because they are "better" by some rate or counting measures.

Only one other black team played as a whole in the minors, the Acme Colored Giants representing Celeron NY in the Iron & Oil League 1898. None of their 11 listed players shows up anywhere else in organized baseball.

Beside Fowler, Johnson, and Walker there are some other men who played on integrated teams in at least two different years: Weldy Walker 84-87, Robert Higgins 87-88, Alex Ross 87-89, R.A. Kelly 89-90-91, William Castone 89-92, George Taylor 89-92-96, Bert Wakefield 95-96-98, Bert Jones 96-97-98.

Grand total: 30 men played in the minors during at least two years, 19 of them two or three years for the Giants or partly-Giant Gorhams in 1889-91. Everyone who played at least four years is included in the table.

All this according to Appendix 15 and 16 by Bob Davids
   5. Paul Wendt Posted: July 15, 2007 at 02:55 AM (#2441573)
#4. The first six lines should be marked as quotation

Matt #2 (quoted copied here by Brent)
I am only including offensive numbers for players for whom more than 2 years of data were compiled [published in Appendix 15]. George Williams is listed first, with a .368 average over 2 years of data. Arthur Thomas is listed third, with a .344 over 2 year. Neither, I believe, had very long careers.

The introduction to Sol White's by Jerry Malloy includees photographs of the 1887 and 1888 Cuban Giants, colored champions. Not only George Williams and Thomas but also Abe Harrison, Clarence Williams, Ben Boyd and Jack Frye (six of the men whose minor league batting records are published by Davids) and also William Whyte are members of both '87-88 teams. And they are all members of the Cuban Giants representing Trenton NJ in 1889.

Sol White identifies Ben Holmes as captain/3b and Boyd as 2b of the Argyle Hotel team, summer 1885 before establishment of the Cuban Giants. George Williams and Abe Harrison as members of the Giants that fall. By 1886, ten men in place who would play for the Trenton edition in 1889 and, as far as I know, only George Stovey moved back and forth.

Here is the complete table, now extended by two righthand columns, the second for Giants role

Name Pos Yrs G AB R H 2B 3B HR SB BA EB/h (1886 Giants)
George Williams Inf 2 108 454 124 167 27 11 2 69 .368 .329 (2b)
Sol White 2-3 5 152 644 169 231 40 12 7 41 .359 .367 joined 1891
Arthur Thomas 3-C 2 120 497 138 171 41 10 4 44 .344 .426 (rf)
Frank Grant 2-3 6 458 1879 410 634 123 34 31 149 .337 .447 joined 1889
Bud Fowler 2-P 10 465 2039 455 628 112 38 7 190 .308 .332
Abe Harrison S-O 2 111 403 104 123 23 9 4 54 .305 .430 (ss)
Clarence Williams C-O 3 102 420 98 126 17 3 1 41 .300 .206 (c)
William Selden P-O 2 124 474 94 140 14 8 2 47 .295 .257 joined by late 1887
Richard Johnson C/OF 4 337 1471 297 398 63 29 14 130 .271 .409
Ben Boyd OF 3 102 408 85 107 8 2 1 46 .266 .140 (cf)
George Stovey P/OF 6 122 464 68 121 16 3 1 28 .261 .206 (p)
Jack Frye 1B/C 5 124 446 87 113 23 7 3 27 .253 .407 (1b)
Moses Walker C/OF 5 354 1295 215 293 27 15 4 100 .226 .235
Ben Holmes (3b) - 1885-1889
William Whyte (lf-p)- 1886-1891 at least
   6. Paul Wendt Posted: July 15, 2007 at 04:52 PM (#2441765)
I have read the entries for early Giants in the Riley Encyclopedia.

For most of the decade where knowledge of Frank Grant is skimpy (1892-1901), the record is spotty or it simply ends, even for players who had been Giants for several seasons. (Grant joined the Giants only when they entered the Middle States League representing Trenton NJ in 1899.) Riley is difficult to use for anything but lookup of player names that come from elsewhere. Most entries do not name another player, who would commonly be a manager or teammate, and the entries for teams include little or no identification of their players ("Cuban Giants" doesn't name a single one). But I guess there are a seasons in the 1890s where no one has put the lineup for a single game into circulation.

It remains plausible that numerous early Giants retired from pro baseball at about the same time, after the 1890 or 1891 season. According to Sol White 1885-90 was the money period and the Giants were the lone professional team in 1892-94. I suppose that pay declined.
   7. Paul Wendt Posted: July 15, 2007 at 05:22 PM (#2441798)
Brent or anyone,
For what 19th century teams does Holway's Complete provide rosters?
Does the organization or index enable checking by team and season, eg Cuban Giants 1894?

KJOK,
Have you compiled any 19c data relating players and teams?
   8. Brent Posted: July 15, 2007 at 11:05 PM (#2442210)
Paul,

Holway should have the roster information you want. Try searching for "frank grant" and "cuban giants" on Google Books. It should bring up Holway in the first 20 hits. (I'm traveling and using my handheld, or I'd look it up myself.)
   9. Paul Wendt Posted: July 16, 2007 at 02:16 PM (#2442495)
FYI,
Having examined Riley's player entries closely, it is clear to me that he and collaborators have seen no "Cuban" box score or roster for 1892, 95, or 98. And I haven't looked at newspapers for any of those years.
   10. KJOK Posted: July 16, 2007 at 06:02 PM (#2442663)
KJOK,
Have you compiled any 19c data relating players and teams?


Gary A. has compiled Cuban data beginning in 1904. He might know of any available data before that date.
   11. Paul Wendt Posted: July 22, 2007 at 09:01 PM (#2450692)
FYI,
I consulted John Holway Complete at the library.
Continuing the "Cuban Giants" example, Holway lists a Nine if not a larger roster of players for 1895-1900 except 1892, 94, and 98. That is a 2/3 match with Riley's player entries. And the difference could be a clerical error or a historical disagreement about dating a single box score or a single notice of today's lineup.

For some 19c championship series, it's clear that Holway has box scores and line scores for only a few of the several games played. That doesn't mean any of date, city, winner, or run score is unknown to Holway for he and publisher may have decided not to publish mere dated game scores.

I don't know how commonly Riley lists, say, '94-'97 when he does not have some report of the player's participation in all four of those seasons. 1892, 95, and 98 are the seasons where I didn't find nine players nohow (only five, two, and two). There may be other seasons for which he has not incorporated a single Cuban Giants box-score or lineup in the Encyclopedia.
   12. Paul Wendt Posted: June 03, 2008 at 06:44 PM (#2804348)
Nine if not a larger roster of players for 1895-1900 except 1892, 94, and 98. That is a 2/3 match with Riley's player entries.
That should be 1885-1900, I'm sure.

--
Most discussion of Frank Grant predates this thread. But it won't hurt to return this one to the top of the directory.

--
Chicago Tribune 1900-06-17
>>
The Columbia Giants will meet the Cuban Giants of New York this morning and afternoon at the Columbia Park. Frank Grant, the veterans colored ballplayer, will cover second base for the Cubans. Games called at 10:30 and 3:30. Tony Mullane will umpire.
<<

(Tony Mullane, the former pitcher. He called Fleet Walker his best catcher and also said that he intentionally crossed up Walker's signs to give him a hard time.)
   13. Paul Wendt Posted: September 07, 2008 at 11:59 PM (#2932219)
Repeating myself from last July, above.
>>
9. Paul Wendt Posted: July 16, 2007 at 10:16 AM (#2442495)
FYI,
Having examined Riley's player entries closely, it is clear to me that he and collaborators have seen no "Cuban" box score or roster for 1892, 95, or 98. And I haven't looked at newspapers for any of those years.

11. Paul Wendt Posted: July 22, 2007 at 05:01 PM (#2450692)
FYI,
I consulted John Holway Complete at the library.
Continuing the "Cuban Giants" example, Holway lists a Nine if not a larger roster of players for [1885]-1900 except 1892, 94, and 98. That is a 2/3 match with Riley's player entries. And the difference could be a clerical error or a historical disagreement about dating a single box score or a single notice of today's lineup.
<<

The Negro Leagues Book (SABR, 1994), edited by Clark and Lester [the Negro Leagues Committee co-chairs] provides no "Cuban Giants" roster for 1892, 95, or 98. Those are the same three seasons for which fewer than nine Riley entries imply playing for the team (in the sense that "Cuban Giants 1893-1896" implies four seasons including '94 and '95).

Once upon a time not long before 1994(?), Riley and Holway contributed to SABR NLC work and would have used some of the material collected by others. Provisionally I guess that the hypothetical "clerical error or a historical disagreement about dating a single box score or a single notice of today's lineup" is Holway's error or disagreement.

Anyway, I have now read "Cuban Giants" box scores for all five seasons 1892 to 1896.
Because none of these three sources provides any data for 1892, here is a summary.

1892 Cuban Giants

Frank Grant
three June games batting second and fielding third ("2,3b"); one July game batting first, fielding second. That is,

2,3b - three games in June
1,2b - one game in July

Team (four team games, 36 complete player games)
Boyd, cf
Douglas(s), p rf
Frye, 1b
Grant, 3b 2b
Harrison, ss
Jackson, c rf
Nelson, p 2b rf
Penno, lf 3b
Story, p (?=Stovey)
Stovey, lf rf (?=Story)
Whyte, rf
Williams, 2b c ss


Back to last July:
6. Paul Wendt Posted: July 15, 2007 at 12:52 PM (#2441765)
I have read the entries for early Giants in the Riley Encyclopedia.

For most of the decade where knowledge of Frank Grant is skimpy (1892-1901), the record is spotty or it simply ends, even for players who had been Giants for several seasons. . . . I guess there are a seasons in the 1890s where no one has put the lineup for a single game into circulation.

It remains plausible that numerous early Giants retired from pro baseball at about the same time, after the 1890 or 1891 season. . . .


Ben Boyd (Riley: 1885-1891) is of those I had in mind. Here he is playing 1,cf in three June games and 3,cf in July --neither retired nor playing a bit part.
   14. Paul Wendt Posted: September 08, 2008 at 12:25 AM (#2932250)
Because Riley and Clark/Lester provide no data for 1895, here is a summary.

1895 Cuban Giants
four games: Jul, Aug, Sep, Sep

Frank Grant
batting positions 4,4,5,5
three games at 2b, one at ss

Team (four team games, 38 player games including 2 substitutions)
Grant, 2b ss
A.Jackson, 3b
B.Jackson, 1b
O.Jackson, lf
W.Jackson, rf
Miller, p
Moore, ss 2b
Nelson, 1b cf lf
Robinson, p
Selden, p cf
Terrill, ss cf
Williams c


The Negro Leagues Book provides Cuban Giants rosters including Frank Grant for 1893 (2b ss), 1894 (ss), and 1896 (ss).
Yes, yes, yes, except he is fielding 2b and 3b in my few 1896 games.
   15. Paul Wendt Posted: September 08, 2008 at 12:35 AM (#2932283)
More than a year ago I spoke to some SABR research committee leaders about getting some data-gathering projects underway. I hoped or promised to get to the proposal stage by this summer's conference but I didn't make it. I'll move forward on this one, compiling game logs and collecting box scores around the turn of the century.
   16. Paul Wendt Posted: January 23, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3059126)
This is before the turn of the century. The Boston Globe published a longish list of exhibition games scheduled for April 1887. Here is the subset for Buffalo of the International League.

date hometeam
401 Cin
402 Lou
403 Lou
404 Cin
405 Bal

407 Was
408 Was
409 Was

411 Pit
412 Pit
413 Pit
414 Phi
415 Cuban Giants, Trenton NJ
416 Phi

418 Hartford
419 Waterbury
420 Bridgeport
421 Yale
422 Bos
423 Bos

425 Portland
426 Portland
427 Lynn
428 Bridgeport
   17. Howie Menckel Posted: May 28, 2011 at 02:50 AM (#3839909)
He now finally has a headstone:

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/sports/ci_18132926

Rest in peace, Frank Grant.

Rest in peace.
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: June 15, 2011 at 02:13 PM (#3853869)
Formalizing the headstone:

http://www.northjersey.com/community/history/more_history_news/123894944_Cemeteryhonors_a_baseballpioneer.html

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