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— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Saturday, September 08, 2007

Gary Gaetti

Eligible in 2005.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 08, 2007 at 08:19 PM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 08, 2007 at 08:24 PM (#2516791)
Not your typical career progression.
   2. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 08, 2007 at 08:36 PM (#2516799)
Better than a 2:1 ratio of double plays to errors. Impressive.
   3. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 08, 2007 at 08:39 PM (#2516803)
The best defensive 3rd baseman in the era between Schmidt and Rolen? Discuss.
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 08, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2516809)
The best defensive 3rd baseman in the era between Schmidt and Rolen? Discuss.


I think Wallach was better.
   5. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: September 08, 2007 at 08:57 PM (#2516813)
Funny thing is, he's sort of an elite player who will never sniff the Hall. He's Lance Parrish: a Gold Glove defender at a tough defensive position with 300+ jacks and was a key member of a championship team. There's not too many players with those credentials (Gold Gloves and 300 HR from a position not usually associated with a lot of home runs).

1 Mike Schmidt 515   HOF
2 Eddie Mathews   502   HOF
3 Graig Nettles   378   No 
(good defender)
4 Matt Williams   370   No (good defendermight make it via VC
5 Gary Gaetti  360   No (good defender
6 Ron Santo    337   Should be in
7 Ron Cey   312   No 
(poor defender)
8 Vinny Castilla  307   No (Coors Field)
9 Chipper Jones   304   Decent shot 


So along with Gaetti the only 300+ HR hot corner man with a good glove not in are Gaetti, Nettles, and Williams.

Best Regards

John
   6. Paul Wendt Posted: September 09, 2007 at 12:13 AM (#2516951)
Page 1 of 1 pages
1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 08, 2007 at 04:24 PM (#2516791)
Not your typical career progression.


Right. A second peak in his late thirties.
On-base at league-average rate in only three seasons. Career on base average -.029 relative to league; compare Joe Carter -.030, Aparicio -.018; Dawson -.009; Garvey +.001; Ozzie Smith +.009
   7. DanG Posted: September 09, 2007 at 12:38 AM (#2517003)
Right. A second peak in his late thirties.

Any explanation for this beyond just chance? Recovery from injury? A new approach? Roids?
   8. Paul Wendt Posted: September 09, 2007 at 01:23 AM (#2517046)
George Brett hit 317 home runs
Brooks Robinson hit 203 in his ten-year prime, when he put together his HOM case. But he languished at 268 career.
Tim Wallach hit 177 in his nine-year prime. Total 260.
Predecessor Larry Parrish 125 in his five-year peak after leaving Montreal. Total 256.
Sal Bando 217 in his ten-year prime, if I may push it to ten years. Total 242.

25 home runs in one season
5 Gaetti
4 Parrish
3 Bando
2 Wallach, Brett
1 Robinson

Bob Horner, a different model entirely, played 75% of team games in five seasons; 50% in three more seasons. 212 home runs in those eight seasons, barely 3000 atbats.
   9. sunnyday2 Posted: September 09, 2007 at 05:00 AM (#2517130)
For several years there my wif thought the Twins had a 3B named Guy Eddy.

Best Twins from the era ~1987-1991:

Puckett
Hrbek
Viola
Gagne
Gaetti
   10. sunnyday2 Posted: September 09, 2007 at 12:56 PM (#2517208)
My wife. My wife.

Not ood.
   11. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2007 at 06:53 PM (#2517517)
As a Twins fan, its odd looking back on his numbers and seeing only two great seasons (1986 & 1988) some serviceable years and several very weak seasons. At the time, we thought this guy was better. I suppose this reeks of sabermetric revisionism, but I still remember the team being happy with Gaetti's 1984 season because "his batting average was up and his strikeouts were down".

I "came of age" as a Twins fan in 1980. I don't remember the Carew/Hisle seasons in the mid-70s. In 1980-81, the Twins idea of a power hitter was John Castino. Hosken Powell and Rick Sofield were our corner OF-ers. I didn't know any better, I thought this was normal.

Then 1982 came along. The team had a new domed stadium and suddenly it had several young players with pop in their bats. Hrbek, Gaetti, Ward, Brunansky all hit over 20 HR's that year. In the first game of the year, Dave Engle hit the first HR in the Metrodome, but Gaetti hit two HR's that day and was also thrown out at home trying to stretch a 3B into an inside-the-parker... and the Twins lost 11-7. :-) We lost over 100 games that year, but the new offense was definitely exciting. :-)
   12. Cabbage Posted: September 09, 2007 at 07:04 PM (#2517547)
Handsomest man in baseball.
   13. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 09, 2007 at 07:07 PM (#2517552)
Whoa, 1980 was not that long ago, but the 1980 Twins are full of players who vanished into the mists of time. Their BB-Ref page only has five players I've ever heard of - three for their playing careers, one for his coaching career, and one for holding the record for most losses without a win. Plus Mike Bacsik Sr., who I would at least have been aware of if his son went by "Mike Bacsik Jr." instead of just being "Mike Bacsik".

How was I unaware that there was a player named "Bombo Rivera"?
   14. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 09, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2517558)
How was I unaware that there was a player named "Bombo Rivera"?


I have his first Topps baseball card.
   15. BDC Posted: September 09, 2007 at 08:02 PM (#2517660)
Gaetti played 2,282 career games at third base, which if Sean would put up fielding leaderboards at B-Ref :) we could see easily as one of the highest all-time totals. At any rate, only Brooks Robinson, among HOF third basemen, played more games at third than Gaetti. Graig Nettles played more. Gaetti, like Nettles and Robinson, does very well on the Keltner question "was he good enough to play regularly past his prime?"
   16. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2007 at 08:38 PM (#2517735)
Yes, as of 2002, Gaetti is 3rd all-time in games-fielded at 3B behind Brooks and Graig.
   17. sunnyday2 Posted: September 09, 2007 at 10:55 PM (#2517819)
>n the first game of the year, Dave Engle hit the first HR in the Metrodome, but Gaetti hit two HR's that day and was also thrown out at home trying to stretch a 3B into an inside-the-parker... and the Twins lost 11-7. :-)

I was there. I hope the Twins played Seattle that night, because that's the way I remember it.
   18. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 09, 2007 at 11:04 PM (#2517824)
I was there. I hope the Twins played Seattle that night, because that's the way I remember it.


Don't you guys know how to use Retrosheet by now??

-- MWE
   19. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2007 at 11:11 PM (#2517829)
Yup... here's the box.

I forgot Eisenreich was on that team. At the time, his problems were described in the local papers as "nervousness". Tourette's diagnosis was totally missed at the time.
   20. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2007 at 11:14 PM (#2517832)
Aaron Gleeman had an article on Gaetti this spring

link

Its very Twins-centric. It has a great picture, though. :-)
   21. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: September 09, 2007 at 11:29 PM (#2517842)
Gaetti's only the twenty-first greatest Twin? Gleeman must not think much of his HOM chances.
   22. Paul Wendt Posted: September 09, 2007 at 11:33 PM (#2517845)
career 3B games thru 2006
2870 robinbr01
2412 nettlgr01
2282 gaettga01
2215 boggswa01
2212 schmimi01
2183 bellbu01
2181 matheed01
2130 santoro01
2054 wallati01
2008 yosted01
The top 20 goes down to Matt Williams 1743, all retired
The top 30 goes down to Vinny Castilla 1656, the 2006-active leader
Scott Rolen passed 1500 this week (see baseball-reference for that)

At shortstop, the top 20 goes down to Mark Belanger 1942. Two of the 20 are active, #2 Omar Vizquel (30 behind Aparicio) and #14 Royce Clayton

At second, the top 20 goes down to Frank Frisch 1762. Two of the 20 are active, #13-14 Craig Biggio and Jeff Kent

At first, the top 20 goes down to 1995. If I scan correctly, the top 50 are all retired. #3 Fred McGriff, Grace, Palmeiro, Bagwell, Galarraga, and Olerud in the top 20 are not yet eligible here.

The leading catchers are closer to the other infielders than I would have guessed. Thru 2006 the top 20 goes down to Mike Piazza 1629. Two of the 20 are active #11 Brad Ausmus and Piazza (no catcher games this year).

--
Through 1899 the number of career games for #10 at the same positions:
- 827, 826, 893, 943, 668

Through 1919:
- 1196, 1625, 1454, 1456, 1032

That's what I get. 1196 games at third, 1625 at short. But only 16 shortstops have 1196 games.

--
As I recall, generalizations about playing time at the infield positions have focused on the 1890s.
Here is the number of 120-game seasons with one team, 1888-1903, by fielding position.
- 100, 114, 112, 116, 5 ; 358 at three outfield positions combined
That is 100 player-team-seasons at third.

If another version of these season and career queries bears more directly on those generalizations I will be happy to crank it out.
   23. sunnyday2 Posted: September 09, 2007 at 11:51 PM (#2517857)
>Don't you guys know how to use Retrosheet by now??'

Hey, "youse guys" (that would be my HoMies) know perfectly well how to use Retrosheet. It's just me. Maybe I don't care that much. But I said it was Seattle and that's exactly who it was. Like I said, I was there.
   24. DavidFoss Posted: September 10, 2007 at 12:40 AM (#2517896)
Gaetti's only the twenty-first greatest Twin?

I don't think he does. But it should be noted that his list is "Twins Only" so Gary's post-1990 years don't count. Still, #19 on Aaron's list is Dave Goltz. Perhaps an unjustly forgotten member of the franchise, but not exactly HOM threadworthy. :-)
   25. DavidFoss Posted: September 10, 2007 at 01:04 AM (#2517910)
Oops... I didn't answer the quote directly... "I don't think he does" was in response to "Gleeman must not think much of his HOM chances.
"
   26. Jeff K. Posted: September 10, 2007 at 01:11 AM (#2517919)
Aaron Gleeman had an article on Gaetti this spring

link

Its very Twins-centric.


Gleeman? Twins-centric? What has the world come to?
   27. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: September 10, 2007 at 01:34 PM (#2518112)
I remember reading years and years ago that Gaetti had been fast friends with Hrbek when they both came up. He and Hrbek were fond of dropping the eff bomb on umps. Then Gaetti got the religion in the late 1980s (I think) and stopped cussing. Hrbek, in this article, mourned the loss of his old pal and noted that Gaetti hadn't used the eff word in years as a way of symbolizing how their relationship faded.
   28. DL from MN Posted: September 10, 2007 at 02:46 PM (#2518183)
The Twins just inducted Gaetti in the Twins HOF so they're higher on him than 21st.

Twins HOF members
Puckett (number retired also)
Killebrew (number retired)
Carew (number retired)
Oliva (number retired)
Hrbek (number retired)
Kaat
Blyleven
Bob Allison
Earl Battey
Frank Viola
Zoilo Versailles
Gary Gaetti

Calvin Griffith
Herb Carneal
Tom Kelly
Bob Casey
Carl Pohlad
Jim Rantz

The best players NOT in the Twins Hall of Fame among eligibles are probably in this order:

Chuck Knoblauch (eligible next election, snowball's chance)
Rick Aguilera
Jim Perry
Camilo Pascual
Mudcat Grant
   29. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 10, 2007 at 03:03 PM (#2518199)
So along with Gaetti the only 300+ HR hot corner man with a good glove not in are Gaetti, Nettles, and Williams.


he also still holds the record for most lifetime HRs among all players who hit a dinger in their first ML at bat

I suppose Jermaine Dye could catch him--needs another 100 or so
   30. Paul Wendt Posted: September 11, 2007 at 03:44 AM (#2519407)
If the vertical banners on the outside wall of Fenway Park honor the "hall of fame" players, then the Red Sox have thirteen; they have retired five numbers. If the Twins get on the ball and honor Jim Perry (or anyone else), they will have thirteen and five players.
   31. Paul Wendt Posted: September 11, 2007 at 03:46 AM (#2519410)
then the Red Sox have thirteen; they have retired five numbers.

and three players, two numbers from the Twins era
   32. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: September 11, 2007 at 10:38 PM (#2520367)
Gaetti was only the second-worst Angel 3B between Doug DeCinces and Troy Glaus.
   33. Mike Webber Posted: October 01, 2007 at 02:14 PM (#2552736)
http://tripleplays.sabr.org/tp_pos5_c.htm

Gaetti is the lifetime leader in triple plays by a 3b

Baseball's Triple Plays - by Position 3b

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