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Tuesday, December 22, 2015

Ivan Rodriguez

Eligible in 2017

DL from MN Posted: December 22, 2015 at 11:37 AM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 11:30 AM (#5131035)
I saw a comment that Rodriguez was the "Best Defensive Catcher ever". That seems worthy of in-depth discussion here.
   2. bbmck Posted: January 11, 2016 at 12:29 PM (#5131090)
500+ G at C, min 1 Rfield per 12.5 games:
Player            Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Charlie Bennett    142.0 1062 1878 1893 23
-38 4310
Doc Bushong         54.0  672 1875 1890 18
-33 2527
Bill Holbert        51.0  623 1876 1888 21
-33 2396 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 12.51-15 games:
Player           Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Yadier Molina     113.0 1464 2004 2015 21
-32 5576
Charlie OBrien     58.0  800 1985 2000 25
-40 2560
Jeff Mathis        46.0  666 2005 2015 22
-32 2141 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 15.01-17.5 games:
Player            Rfield    G From   To   Age    PA
Ivan Rodriguez     146.0 2543 1991 2011 19
-39 10270
Jim Sundberg       114.1 1962 1974 1989 23
-38  6899
Charles Johnson     73.0 1188 1994 2005 22
-33  4386
Ron Karkovice       62.3  939 1986 1997 22
-33  2948

Clay Dalrymple      62.0 1079 1960 1971 23
-34  3532
Silver Flint        44.0  760 1875 1889 19
-33  2968
Rick Wilkins        42.1  720 1991 2001 24
-34  2435
Salvador Perez      34.0  545 2011 2015 21
-25  2148 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 17.51-20 games:
Player            Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Buck Ewing          74.0 1315 1880 1897 20
-37 5772
Steve Yeager        70.0 1269 1972 1986 23
-37 4015
Tom Pagnozzi        50.1  927 1987 1998 24
-35 3142
Mike LaValliere     46.1  879 1984 1995 23
-34 2871
Mike Ryan           32.0  636 1964 1974 22
-32 2099 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 20.01-22.5 games:
Player           Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Gary Carter       112.1 2295 1974 1992 20
-38 9019
Bob Boone         105.3 2264 1972 1990 24
-42 8148
Del Crandall       70.8 1573 1949 1966 19
-36 5583
Russell Martin     59.0 1292 2006 2015 23
-32 5147

Kirt Manwaring     47.0 1008 1987 1999 21
-33 3338
Pop Snyder         44.0  930 1873 1891 18
-36 3736
Charlie Ganzel     39.0  787 1884 1897 22
-35 3184
Jocko Milligan     37.0  772 1884 1893 22
-31 3210 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 22.51-25 games:
Player          Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Brad Ausmus       79.8 1971 1993 2010 24
-41 7102
Rick Dempsey      71.4 1766 1969 1992 19
-42 5407
Butch Wynegar     53.9 1301 1976 1988 20
-32 5067
Jack Clements     49.0 1160 1884 1900 19
-35 4721 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 25.01-27.5 games:
Player          Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Chief Zimmer      47.0 1280 1884 1903 23
-42 5078
Randy Hundley     42.0 1061 1964 1977 22
-35 3801
Jason LaRue       36.5  922 1999 2010 25
-36 3103
Morgan Murphy     21.0  568 1890 1901 23
-34 2170 

500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 27.51-30 games:
Player         Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Johnny Bench     72.3 2158 1967 1983 19
-35 8674
Jody Davis       38.1 1082 1981 1990 24
-33 3984
Carlos Ruiz      34.0 1021 2006 2015 27
-36 3691
John Stearns     29.3  810 1974 1984 22
-32 3083 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/11/2016.

306 more players with 500+ G at C, 99 more players with 1000+ G at C, including 12 of the 15 in the HoF:

Player            Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Ray Schalk          46.0 1763 1912 1929 19
-36 6237
Yogi Berra          29.8 2120 1946 1965 21
-40 8359
Carlton Fisk        27.2 2499 1969 1993 21
-45 9853
Bill Dickey         20.0 1789 1928 1946 21
-39 7065
Roy Campanella      17.0 1215 1948 1957 26
-35 4815
Gabby Hartnett      12.0 1991 1922 1941 21
-40 7297

Mickey Cochrane     
-2.0 1482 1925 1937 22-34 6207
Rick Ferrell        
-3.0 1884 1929 1947 23-41 7077
Roger Bresnahan    
-15.0 1446 1897 1915 18-36 5373
Ernie Lombardi     
-21.0 1852 1931 1947 23-39 6351
King Kelly         
-44.0 1455 1878 1893 20-35 6455
Mike Piazza        
-63.1 1912 1992 2007 23-38 7745 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/11/2016.

68 debut since 1990 with 500+ G at C, the 20 with 1000+ G at C:

Player            Rfield    G From   To   Age   PA
Dan Wilson          33.4 1299 1992 2005 23
-36 4616
Mike Matheny        30.7 1305 1994 2006 23
-35 4287
Jason Kendall       16.5 2085 1996 2010 22
-36 8702
Bengie Molina       15.0 1362 1998 2010 23
-35 5159
Kurt Suzuki         11.0 1102 2007 2015 23
-31 4249

Gregg Zaun          
-1.0 1232 1995 2010 24-39 4042
John Flaherty       
-1.0 1047 1992 2005 24-37 3640
Ramon Hernandez     
-1.2 1526 1999 2013 23-37 5701
Jason Varitek       
-6.0 1546 1997 2011 25-39 5839
Miguel Olivo        
-7.0 1124 2002 2014 23-35 3993

Rod Barajas         
-7.1 1114 1999 2012 23-36 3784
Brent Mayne         
-8.2 1279 1990 2004 22-36 4084
Javy Lopez         
-11.0 1503 1992 2006 21-35 5793
Brian McCann       
-13.0 1380 2005 2015 21-31 5427
Mike Lieberthal    
-32.0 1212 1994 2007 22-35 4695

A
.JPierzynski    -43.0 1978 1998 2015 21-38 7556
Todd Hundley       
-49.6 1225 1990 2003 21-34 4305
Jorge Posada       
-59.9 1829 1995 2011 23-39 7150
John Buck          
-60.0 1090 2004 2014 23-33 4009
Mike Piazza        
-63.1 1912 1992 2007 23-38 7745 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/11/2016.
   3. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:32 PM (#5131152)
Not sure which of those is DRS and which is TotalZone. Here is a description of both:


Runs Saved

- Catcher Adjusted Earned Runs Saved (Catchers)
- Catcher Stolen Base Runs Saved (Catchers)
- Bunt Runs Saved (Corner Infielders, Catchers, Pitchers)
- Good Plays/Misplays Runs Saved (All Fielders)



Total Zone Catcher Data

Catcher data looks at stolen bases allowed, caught stealing, errors, pickoffs, passed balls, and wild pitches. I split the data by pitcher handedness (otherwise a catcher will look better if he catches more lefthanders than normal.) Once again, everything is compared to league averages and converted to runs.
   4. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:33 PM (#5131156)
I saw a comment that Rodriguez was the "Best Defensive Catcher ever". That seems worthy of in-depth discussion here.

These Game Calling stats (from ARom IIRC) certainly don't support that.

http://www.baseballprojection.com/special/catcher_gcall.htm
   5. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:37 PM (#5131166)
Info on framing from Beyond the Box Score


Catcher Called Pitches SAA SAA / 150 Pitches Runs / 150 Pitches
Gregg Zaun 4518 159.70 5.30 0.85
Jeff Mathis 3430 93.43 4.09 0.66
Yadier Molina 3246 84.49 3.90 0.63
Russell Martin 7061 183.16 3.89 0.63

Ivan Rodriguez 3881 55.13 2.13 0.34
Brad Ausmus 2576 35.19 2.05 0.33

Jorge Posada 2616 3.66 0.22 0.03

Gerald Laird 6129 -317.09 -7.76 -1.25
   6. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:39 PM (#5131169)
The knock on Rodriguez' game calling was he called a lot of fastballs with guys on base to make it easier to manage the running game.
   7. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:41 PM (#5131174)
Uh, I can see "edit" and "close" options under everyone's posts. Is that just me?

edit: Wait, they're gone now. Probably a momentary glitch.
   8. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:45 PM (#5131177)
The game calling stats LOVE Carlton Fisk.
   9. bbmck Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:01 PM (#5131188)
Total Zone through 2002, DRS since then.
   10. BDC Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:10 PM (#5131200)
The knock on Rodriguez' game calling was he called a lot of fastballs with guys on base to make it easier to manage the running game

As I was saying in some other thread recently, it's a meme but I'm not sure how well it's sourced. The one guy I heard of knocking Rodriguez for his pitch-calling was Bobby Witt, in his youth (and Pudge's extreme youth), but even those quotes are hard to track down. Surviving direct quotes from Witt are full of praise. Maybe someone else can find the source of this rumor.

Suffice it to say, from a qualitative and observational viewpoint, Rodriguez's arm and release were otherworldly, and he came into the league at 19 with more self-confidence than most veterans. He also had uncanny bat speed, and when he was hurt mid-season in 2000 he had developed into a fantastic hitter (though really that just means hitting as well as Mike Piazza over just a half season :)

Pudge is a small man, but by his 1999 season, when I was a columnist covering the Rangers regularly, he was built like a Ninja Turtle. He later morphed back into a more human kind of body style. Your guess is as good as anyone's how that happened.

I rarely enter these discussions because I'm not good enough with numbers; just wanted to stress Rodriguez's unique abilities from a "scouting" standpoint because I watched him play so much.

   11. bbmck Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:28 PM (#5131222)
Sam Carchidi in 1991

"He's the kind of guy that shuts down a team's game plan," added Bobby Witt, another Rangers righthander. "There's no doubt that he has teams changing their ways. The Hendersons and Raineses, they're still running. But the guys who steal 15, 25 bases, are reluctant."
   12. Morty Causa Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:28 PM (#5131224)
The game calling stats LOVE Carlton Fisk.

They sure do, but many savvy observers back then would nod their head and say this is fully justified. Throughout his career, even when he was as young catcher, he was lauded for his ability to call a game and handle pitchers.
   13. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:29 PM (#5131226)
I always thought there was a grain of truth to the criticism, but it was more trying to come up with a flaw in his game when everything else he did behind the plate was pretty spectacular.

I loved watching him snap-throw to 1B, I wonder how often it actually worked. Can anyone sort out pickoffs at 1B for Rodriguez?
   14. bbmck Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:42 PM (#5131236)
Johnette Howard in 1997

To his prodigious arm, Rodriguez has now added a sense of gamesmanship. "If the pitch is, say, a slider away, I've seen Pudge whip his head around and pretend the ball went to the backstop just to see if he can trick a base runner far enough off the bag to throw him out," Rangers pitcher Bobby Witt says."Sometimes you can see Pudge smiling about it behind his mask."
   15. bbmck Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:56 PM (#5131255)
All Sorts of Catcher Stats

1956-2007 Catchers with the Most Pickoffs (Career):

Base  PO          Catcher
1     50   Ivan Rodriguez      
2     24  Benito Santiago
3     28        Bob Boone
Any   81   Ivan Rodriguez 
   16. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:57 PM (#5131259)
The one guy I heard of knocking Rodriguez for his pitch-calling was Bobby Witt

IIRC, Todd Stottlemyre went public with some pretty pointed comments about pitching to Rodriguez after Stott left Texas. Can't find anything specific in a quick Google search right now though.
   17. toratoratora Posted: January 11, 2016 at 05:50 PM (#5131464)
They sure do, but many savvy observers back then would nod their head and say this is fully justified. Throughout his career, even when he was as young catcher, he was lauded for his ability to call a game and handle pitchers.

...very very slowly.

Fisk could call a game but the thing I remember most about him was how long he took
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: January 22, 2016 at 08:47 PM (#5140518)

"I rarely enter these discussions because I'm not good enough with numbers; just wanted to stress Rodriguez's unique abilities from a "scouting" standpoint because I watched him play so much."

thanks for the comments, BDC. I think you'll find such comments are welcomed as part of a "toolkit" imo.

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