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Sunday, November 16, 2008

Jay Bell

Eligible 2009.

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Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: November 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: November 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM (#3010315)
Had a better career than most probably remember . . . 2000 games mostly at SS with a little 2B and 3B mixed in, 101 career OPS+ pretty good for a SS too.

Was the 8th pick in the 1984 draft as well. Made $57 million dollars in his career, plus whatever his signing bonus was. Not too shaby.
   2. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM (#3010318)
Yeah, really. I remember him primarily for the fluky 1999 HR year, when he started hitting longballs in spring training and never stopped (juice?). But in fact, that wasn't even one of the five best years in his career. He was a strong defensive shortstop in his prime and excellent during his 1993-94 peak, an above-average baserunner, and a very fine hitter for the position. His superlative 1993 was good enough to win an MVP award in many years. He's clearly not a viable candidate, but definitely a HoVG type, and far better than numerous other guys who get votes in our elections.
   3. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: November 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM (#3010319)
Between 1990 and 1992, Bell laid down 88 sacrifice bunts.
We may never again see such pointless out-making.
   4. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: November 17, 2008 at 12:10 AM (#3010329)
Yeah, really. I remember him primarily for the fluky 1999 HR year, when he started hitting longballs in spring training and never stopped (juice?). But in fact, that wasn't even one of the five best years in his career

I'd have a hard time making a case for any other season of his being better offensively outside of '93. Is the SS boost + his defense really so big that '99 was just an average year for him? It seems he'd need to be GG caliber early in his career and pretty bad later in his career for that to be the case.

That's really just nitpicking though. As a young Mets fan, I'll remember him mostly for the '99 season, and for his impressive showing with the Mets in his last season, in which he somehow managed to draw 22 walks against 116 ABs, despite hitting only .181 with 1 extra base hit(a double). You've got to have some kind of an eye to be able to do that.
   5. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 12:18 AM (#3010331)
By 1999 he had moved to 2B from SS, so he had a lot less positional value that season than he did earlier in his career. He was indeed Gold Glove caliber in 1993 and '94, and well above average in '92 and '97. Those years, plus 1991, are the ones I have abovce his '99.
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 03:08 AM (#3010414)
Between 1990 and 1992, Bell laid down 88 sacrifice bunts.
We may never again see such pointless out-making.


Yea, I remember when I was a kid announcers always drooling about what amazing bunters Jay Bell and Brett Butler were.
   7. sunnyday2 Posted: November 17, 2008 at 04:33 AM (#3010458)
For the life of me, I cannot get a mental image of Jay Bell in my eye. Wait, wait, I think I've got it. But, no, that's Buddy Bell. Or Dave Bell. It's not Derek Bell, though, I don't think, this image in my head. And it's not George Bell, I know that. But Jay?

But, hey, Bill James has him at #31 with 232 WS. Ahead of Rico Petrocelli, Joe Tinker, Herman Long (well, that doesn't count, no adjustment for short seasons), but also Bobby Wallace, Rabbit Maranville, Jack Glasscock, etc. etc.

For me, there's probably a dozen shortstops between him and the bottom of the HoM list of SS right now. Rizutto, Pesky, Stephens, Long, Concepcion, Campaneris, Bancroft, Maranville, Tinker and Long, Tony Fernandez. Even Luis Aparicio was better.
   8. Chris Cobb Posted: November 17, 2008 at 05:21 AM (#3010478)
For me, there's probably a dozen shortstops between him and the bottom of the HoM list of SS right now.

I've got 13. It's a pretty similar list: Campaneris, Rizzuto, Concepcion, Pesky, Bancroft, Stephens, Fregosi, Fernandez, Maranville, Aparicio, Tinker, Bartell, and Donie Bush, in more or less that order.
   9. Guapo Posted: November 17, 2008 at 05:23 AM (#3010479)
This HOM election is forcing me to relive Game 7 of the 2001 World Series.

Mark Grace led off the bottom of the 9th with a single.

Jay Bell batted later in the inning, bunted into a forceplay but ended up scoring the winning run.

Matt Williams was on deck when the winning run scored.

That was a good team for getting HOVG guys their rings.

Of course, Kevin Appier had to wait one extra year before he got his with Anaheim....
   10. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: November 17, 2008 at 05:36 AM (#3010483)
Jay Bell batted later in the inning, bunted into a forceplay but ended up scoring the winning run.
Didn't Brosius take some heat for a perceived failure to look for a DP?
   11. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: November 17, 2008 at 08:04 AM (#3010520)
For the life of me, I cannot get a mental image of Jay Bell in my eye. Wait, wait, I think I've got it. But, no, that's Buddy Bell. Or Dave Bell. It's not Derek Bell, though, I don't think, this image in my head. And it's not George Bell, I know that. But Jay?

I always get Jay Bell and Jeff King mixed up.
   12. Paul Wendt Posted: November 17, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#3010739)
I correctly placed Jay Bell as the shortstop for those Bonds-Bonilla-Drabek Pirates while Mark Grace & Co. also ran.(*)
The record clearly shows Bonilla departed before '92 and Drabek not very good in '91 so I "pass" this opportunity to look up Matt Williams and Kevin Appier.

* The Cardinals were cooked after 1989 and the Mets after 1990 (both two years after their last division crowns, 1987 and 1988). I remember a notion, not only mine, that the Cubs of 1989 (their crown) were a serious young team, maybe heir apparent. Twenty years later, the record suggests to me that they fortunately slipped through a window of opportunity when "something happened" to the Pirates.

88-89-90-91-92 : year 19xx

Pittsburgh
86-74-95-98-96 : wins
2- 5- 1- 1- 1 : rank in NL East

Chicago
77-93-77-77-78 : wins
4- 1- 4- 4- 4 : rank in NL East

If you slide a pencil over the '89 column, both teams were consistent.
After '92, Barry Bonds and Greg Maddux moved "West" to San Francisco and Atlanta and those two won 103, 104 games. Philadelphia and Montreal were the strongest teams in the East.
   13. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: November 17, 2008 at 06:41 PM (#3010758)
Looking back, Jay Bell had one of the great under-the-radar careers in my lifetime. My memory of the early years of his career was tainted by the awful, awful trade the Indians made when they set him to Pittsburgh for Denio Gonzalez and Felix Fermin. I remember thinking that he couldn't possibly be all that good if they were trading him for Fermin.

By the time I realized he could play, Bell had commenced his annual tradition of popping 30 doubles, 10 home runs, scoring 90 runs, and playing fringe Gold-Glove caliber defense. While the rest of the league was screwing around with Rafael Belliard and Rey Ordonez, there was Jay Bell hitting like a ballplayer instead of like a "middle infielder".

I hereby support Jay Bell's candidacy for Hall of Underappreciated.
   14. Chris Cobb Posted: November 17, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#3010772)
I always get Jay Bell and Jeff King mixed up.

Here's the way to tell them apart.

Jay Bell is the one who was a lot better than anyone expected.

Jeff King is the one who was never as good as everyone expected.
   15. PreservedFish Posted: November 17, 2008 at 07:20 PM (#3010805)
For the life of me, I cannot get a mental image of Jay Bell in my eye.


Rimless glasses.
   16. BDC Posted: November 17, 2008 at 07:37 PM (#3010812)
a mental image of Jay Bell

Unless I am mistaken, Jay Bell has a tattoo of a fish, or some such creature, on his back or shoulder blade or some such place. Unless that's Jeff Blauser I'm thinking of.
   17. BDC Posted: November 17, 2008 at 07:40 PM (#3010818)
No, it was David Bell. Expunge mental image of tattooed Jay Bell.
   18. Chris Fluit Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:17 AM (#3011200)
For me, there's probably a dozen shortstops between him and the bottom of the HoM list of SS right now. Rizutto, Pesky, Stephens, Long, Concepcion, Campaneris, Bancroft, Maranville, Tinker and Long, Tony Fernandez. Even Luis Aparicio was better.


Long's so good, he makes the list twice.
   19. Paul Wendt Posted: November 18, 2008 at 07:01 PM (#3011588)
beer, chips, dip, and beer
   20. The Wilpons Must Go (Tom D) Posted: November 22, 2008 at 01:21 PM (#3014207)
There was a time before ARod, et. al. when these stats and the right high profile team could have made Bell a HOF candidate. His B-R comps include several guys who were mainstays of really good teams.
   21. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 22, 2008 at 04:01 PM (#3014230)
Yes, but if (like me) you believe that there were systematic/structural factors that caused the change in SS replacement level relative to other positions, then you assume that if Bell had played in, say, the 1970's, his hitting would have been further below the league average than it was in the 1990's.

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