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Monday, January 27, 2014

John Smoltz

Eligible in 2015

DL from MN Posted: January 27, 2014 at 12:41 PM | 15 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: January 28, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4647465)
I'd love to get updated pitching WAR from Dan R to cover the relief and final years for Smoltz.

I have Smoltz ahead of Glavine, Mussina and Schilling. Smoltz hit almost as well as Glavine.

   2. Chris Fluit Posted: January 28, 2014 at 03:06 PM (#4647473)
I have Smoltz behind Schilling (and the recently elected Glavine) but ahead of Mussina. It's a tightly bunched group so I wouldn't blame someone for having a different order.
   3. OCF Posted: January 29, 2014 at 03:11 AM (#4647838)
I have Smoltz behind Mussina. But part of that is that I don't assign all that much value to 1-inning relievers and I'm not doing anything systematic with postseason stats.
   4. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: January 29, 2014 at 11:50 AM (#4647938)
Has anyone ever went from front line starter to ace reliever back to front line starter? The fact that he was in his late 30's when he went back to starting again is all the more incredible. I'd still rate him behind Glavine, Schilling, Mussina though because of the reliever years but he's a HOFer.
   5. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: January 29, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4647944)
Has anyone ever went from front line starter to ace reliever back to front line starter?


Left Grove, and he'd do ion a daily basis.
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 29, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4647948)
Allie Reynolds did both, also
   7. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: January 29, 2014 at 12:20 PM (#4647953)

Left Grove, and he'd do ion a daily basis.


Tru-dat, but I guess I'm thinking in more contemporary times since relievers became a job description so to speak.
   8. OCF Posted: January 29, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4647989)
Eckersley went from front-line starter to meh starter to ace reliever to reliever living off his reputation. He never retraced any of those steps; in particular he never went back to starting.
   9. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: January 29, 2014 at 01:20 PM (#4648001)
Has anyone ever went from front line starter to ace reliever back to front line starter?


Not unusual back in Lefty Grove's day for starters, even #1 starters to have 5-15 relief appearances a year in addition.

The guy I remember (who didn't make nearly as many relief appearances as I remember) was Ron Guidry, who picked up a couple of saves 1979/80 even while making 30 starts a year- his manager Bob Lemon made about 100 relief appearances in his career (he was primarily a reliever for 2 years- but nonetheless would make 5 or so relief appearances a year when he was starting
   10. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 29, 2014 at 01:22 PM (#4648002)
I consider John Smoltz as my intro to Sabremetrics. In 1996 I found rec.sport.baseball and was surprised that at the end of the year not everyone thought he should be the Cy Young winner, because how can you overlook 24 wins? IIRC, Kevin Brown had 14 wins and people were seriously for him. Several folks were kind and gave me a tutoring. I knew wins were a flaky stat but never realized just how flaky.
   11. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: January 29, 2014 at 02:07 PM (#4648033)
Brown had 17 W in '96, but either way as you say, in them days it was highly unlikely for a 24 game winner not to get the Cy Young award.
I could have gone either way that year despite Brown having an ERA over a run lower than Smoltz, their respective value was pretty close.
Smoltz was still pitching in the "launching pad" and Brown pitched in a one of the most pitching friendly parks in the league, although Brown did have a quite a bit better road ERA than Smoltz.
   12. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4654393)
Derek Lowe went from mediocre starter to shutdown reliever to meh reliever to ace starter to meh starter. All in the space of 6 years. And then tacked on like another 10 more as an innings eater.

Another topic: Do we need a "LOOGY" style acronym for League-Average-Innings-Eater? LAIE doesn't move the needle much, though. LAIER might work though. The Woody Williams Award?

On topic: Yes on Smoltz.
   13. Kiko Sakata Posted: February 10, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4654397)
Has anyone ever went from front line starter to ace reliever back to front line starter?


He's at least one cut below Smoltz, but Ryan Dempster pitched >200IP as a starter for the Marlins at ages 23-25, spent a few years in injury purgatory before re-emerging as the Cubs closer at ages 28-30. At age 31, the Cubs moved him back to the starting rotation and he won 17 games for them with by far the best ERA of his career (it was even better than any of his three years as a closer). Interesting career shape.
   14. JoeC Posted: February 10, 2014 at 05:18 PM (#4654432)

Another topic: Do we need a "LOOGY" style acronym for League-Average-Innings-Eater? LAIE doesn't move the needle much, though. LAIER might work though. The Woody Williams Award?


Baseball Prospectus has used "LAIM" (League-Average Innings Muncher), which isn't awful but maybe a little pejorative. They credit somebody named Travis Nelson for the acronym.
   15. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 14, 2014 at 10:04 AM (#4656766)
How about League Average Bulk Innings Accumulator? On second thought.....

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