Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Hall of Merit > Discussion
Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Wednesday, January 18, 2006

Minnie Minoso

Eligible in 1970.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 18, 2006 at 08:42 PM | 132 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: February 17, 2006 at 11:26 PM (#1866532)
Without war or NeL credit Slaughter also seems to have a better 3 year peak (and five year peak but year #'s 4 adn 5 are even between the two) and a good bit more career. Minoso does, however, have better shoulder seasons around the peak. With war and NeL credit I think that Slaughter pulls safely ahead as he missed some priem years while Minoso adds only a few average ones and one good year. Salughter woudl be about #8 for me (though I didnt' vote for im while he was eligible, Minoso was #27 on my 1970 ballot.

To me Minoso's closest comps (in terms of value in the OF) are Willard Brown, George Burns, Roy Thomas, Edd Roush, and Richie Ashburn. I have him third in that group though he may be as good as second (I don't think he was as good was Brown).
   102. Gadfly Posted: February 18, 2006 at 03:52 PM (#1867051)
1948 NNL Statistics: Minnie Minoso
G AB R H 2B 3B HR BA SA TB
36 152 27 51 9 7 3 .336 .546 83

Minoso had played in all 36 of the New York Cubans' league games when he was sold to Dayton in late August of 1948. He was the Cuban's starting third baseman and lead-off hitter.

Notes on comparisons:

1) Minoso cannot really be compared to Irvin; Monte was way way better. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Minoso got to play a straight decade in the bigs; Irvin really had only one, non-adjustment, non-injury, season when he was young and healthy [1951]. In that one season, Irvin was as good as Minoso ever was in any season and actually much much better when park effects are taken into consideration.

2) The comparison to Robin Yount is also invalid. Yount was a mediocre hitting shortstop who blossomed into a superstar when he hit his prime. Minoso, on the other hand, was basically the same player, a star but not a superstar, from 1948 to 1960.

The interesting question that was raised is: Was the huge discrepancy in Minoso's MLE as opposed to his Major League BA caused by a Yount like blossoming? Well, from 1945 to 1949, Minoso batted .271 in Cuba. He took the 1949-50 season off and then came back to hit .284 for the rest of his Cuban career (1950-61) to finish with a .280 average. And even this much overstates the case, as the Cuban League's actual league BA was usually much higher in the 1950s than the 1940s.

As was pointed out (Brent: Post 81), this is simply more data indicating that the MLEs are too low.

3) But the most fascinating comparison of all is the fact that Minoso played full-time simultaneously in both the Cuban and Major Leagues for a decade: Cuban League 1950/51-60/61 (10 seasons, did not play 1954-55) and American League 1951-1961 (11 seasons).

As noted above, Minoso hit .284 (2066-587) in Cuba during that time. And, in the AL from 1951-61, he hit .305 (6110-1861). Considering that Minoso had to adjust to the AL but not the Cuban League during this time frame AND is missing a prime season in Cuba, the real difference is probably even slightly greater.

Of course, this doesn't mean the Cuban League was better than the AL (the League context is much different) but does go to show how much closer things are when samples are 1) statistically significant and 2) most of the adjustment bias is taken out. In other words, is anyone out there INCREASING Cuban League BA for MLEs?
   103. Brent Posted: February 18, 2006 at 04:52 PM (#1867086)
Dr. Chaleeko,

Dr. Chaleeko,

Thank you for reconsidering and updating your MLEs. The latest versions seem much more plausible than the earlier ones.

Gadfly,

I have a question about Minoso’s 1946 record. In post # 28 Dr. C says Minoso hit .260 for the New York Cubans, whereas Riley says he hit .309 (a statistic that also appears on several Web sites) and on the John Beckwith thread) you once said he hit .306. This difference could affect some voters choice regarding when to start giving Minoso non-MLB credit.
   104. Brent Posted: February 18, 2006 at 05:08 PM (#1867093)
Since most voters start giving Minoso non-MLB credit beginning either in 1947 or ’48, the following totals may be useful. (They are based on the table Dr. C gave in post # 84, but substituting the latest numbers shown in # 93 for 1948.)

YEAR _AVG OBP SLG __G __PA __AB __H _TB _BB ops+ WS
47-50 .288 .361 .422 546 2309 2072 597 875 236 108 76.8
48-50 .291 .363 .421 398 1682 1510 440 636 171 109 56.4

Combining these with his major league record gives Minoso the following MLE career totals:

YEAR _AVG OBP SLG ___G ___PA __AB ___H __TB _BB ops+ WS
47-80 .296 .382 .451 2381 10019 8651 2560 3898 1050 125 360
48-80 .297 .384 .452 2233 09392 8089 2403 3659 0985 126 339

I found that several corner OF HoMers have comparable career statistics:

AVG OBP _SLG ___G _PA __AB ___H __TB __BB ops+ WS
.317 .367 .450 2410 9996 9106 2884 4100 0650 129 380 Wheat
.316 .387 .500 2287 9822 8656 2735 4325 0949 128 355 Goslin
.300 .382 .453 2380 9084 7946 2383 3599 1018 123 323 Slaughter
.341 .388 .415 2123 9594 8591 2932 3562 0524 127 333 Keeler
.274 .375 .378 2122 9118 7605 2084 2878 1135 120 339 Sheckard

These players pretty much constitute the bottom rung of corner OFers in the HoM. These statistics do not include any adjustments--Slaughter missed three prime seasons due to the war, which in my mind should move him to the top of this list. Keeler and Sheckard should get some playing time adjustments for short seasons, and of course Sheckard’s record is OBP-heavy, implying that his OPS+ tends to understate his batting value. Also, Sheckard was easily the best fielder of this group, though all (including Minoso) were good fielders. If I were to pick one of these players as most comparable to Minoso, it would be Goose Goslin.

Of course, Bill James has reminded us that if we look for comparable players in the Hall, we should also look for comparable players who are not yet enshrined. The closest I could find was Jimmy Ryan, who used to be a popular candidate 40 elections ago, but has virtually disappeared in recent elections.

AVG OBP _SLG ___G _PA __AB ___H __TB _BB ops+ WS
.306 .374 .444 2012 9106 8164 2502 3621 803 124 316 Ryan

My guess is that the lack of support for Ryan mostly reflects concerns about his in-season durability.

I’d also like to reiterate my concern that many voters do not appear to be taking account of the reduced playing opportunities in the 1950s (and resulting increase in quality) associated with the contraction of the Negro Leagues. The voter who bases his ballot on fixed statistical criteria that aren't adjusted for the reduction in playing opportunities will tend to find, all else equal, about one-third fewer players from the 1950s meeting their standard than from the prior 3 or 4 decades. I do not consider this to be “timelining”; it is a simple concern that we treat players of all decades fairly. Results of recent elections suggest that 1950s-era players may wind up being underrepresented.

Taking account of the 1950s NeL contraction, WWII, shorter seasons pre-1904, etc., my system ranks the above players in the following order: Slaughter-Minoso-Goslin-Wheat-Sheckard-Ryan, though the differences between Minoso, Goslin, and Wheat appear very small to me. (Keeler was before my time as a voter, so I don’t have him rated; Ashburn would slip in between Slaughter and Minoso.) In view of the strong support that Slaughter, Ashburn, Goslin, and Wheat received when they appeared on the ballot, I’m surprised at the lack of support for Minoso and hope that voters here will reconsider his case.
   105. Paul Wendt Posted: February 19, 2006 at 10:38 PM (#1868382)
we should also look for comparable players who are not yet enshrined. The closest I could find was Jimmy Ryan, who used to be a popular candidate 40 elections ago, but has virtually disappeared in recent elections.

Ryan hasn't been the direct object of much discussion. Frequently said in favor of those who have remained in the discussion and high on the leader board, Van Haltren and Griffith, is that they were in their primes during the contraction years 1892-1900. So I infer that Ryan's peak beginning in 1888 (if defined by one to eight consecutive years) counts against him.

In view of the strong support that Slaughter, Ashburn, Goslin, and Wheat received when they appeared on the ballot, I’m surprised at the lack of support for Minoso and hope that voters here will reconsider his case.

Ashburn is contemporary but his electoral strength (shoo-in at his time) may be derived from those who value fine defensive CFing more than you do. Wheat and Goslin are ancient history. So hang this hat on the Slaughter peg.
   106. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 19, 2006 at 10:47 PM (#1868393)
So hang this hat on the Slaughter peg.

Agreed, Paul. If you liked Country (and I did), you should like Minoso, IMO.
   107. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 19, 2006 at 10:59 PM (#1868407)
One other thing needs to be stressed: Minoso played a lot of third base between 1948-51. No, the hot corner wasn't as defense-oriented then (or now, for that matter) as it was when Sutton, Collins, Baker, and Groh were playing, but it still wasn't left field either. His MLE OPS+ need to be evaluated in that light.
   108. kthejoker Posted: February 21, 2006 at 05:16 AM (#1870029)
C'mon! An age 53 comp to Hall of Famer Jim O'Rourke! Put the guy in!
   109. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: February 21, 2006 at 07:13 AM (#1870152)
Triviality (or maybe not):

Found this in the NHBA. Bill James took a set of all the players in baseball history who played 1,000 or more games, and ranked them in a bunch of offensive categories: BA, OBP, SLG, doubles/AB, triples/AB, home runs/AB, runs scored/AB, RBI/AB, stolen bases/AB, walks/AB and strikeouts/AB. Then he looked to see how many players were above average in every category. He got 5:

Jackie Robinson
George Grantham
Jacques Fournier
Ken Williams
Minnie Minoso

Like I said, trivia, but I will point out: Robinson's a HoMer, Grantham was a lousy fielder, Fournier had an odd career, getting sent to the minors midway through for no good reason, and Williams had a very big home park advantage.
   110. Daryn Posted: February 21, 2006 at 03:18 PM (#1870298)
triples/AB

I bet this category, and maybe SBs, eliminated a lot of great players.
   111. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 21, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#1870407)
Brent,

My #s for Minoso are taken from either Lester/Clark or Holway (IIRC). Probably the former.

Gadfly,

Thanks for the numbers on Minoso! Are these from a published source? If so, I'd love to get my hands on it.
   112. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 21, 2006 at 05:22 PM (#1870414)
These MLEs not only respond to Brent's concerns, but also include the newest data just posted by Gadfly. Thanks, Gadfly! I'm going to post this over on the 1971 thread as suggested by several voters.

Minoso MLEs version 3.0

YEAR LG AGE PO  AVG  OBP  SLG   G  PA  AB   H  TB BB ops
sfws
------------------------------------------------------------
1945 NL 20  OF .286 .362 .384  95 404 361 103 139 43 108  11.8
1946 NL 21  OF .244 .314 .345 132 554 503 123 173 51  87  10.6
1947 NL 22  OF .280 .355 .425 148 627 562 157 239 65 106  20.4
1948 NL 23  OF .296 .373 .429 147 629 560 166 240 69 117  22.3
1949 NL 24  OF .269 .326 .420 112 463 426 115 179 36  99  13.4
1950 NL 25  OF .307 .385 .439 136 581 515 158 226 66 116  22.2 
   113. DavidFoss Posted: February 21, 2006 at 05:40 PM (#1870440)
I mentioned it several times before but it was not corrected. Due to the November birthday, those MLE's should go from age 19 to 24. As it stands now he's listed as 25 in both 1950 and 1951.

Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind when potentially given credit for 1947 and earlier.
   114. Brent Posted: February 22, 2006 at 04:57 AM (#1871144)
In # 104 I gave Minoso’s career numbers including the MLEs (starting either in 1947 or ’48). The following updates them using Dr. C’s latest MLEs:

YEAR _AVG OBP SLG ___G ___PA __AB ___H __TB _BB ops+ WS
47-80 .296 .382 .452 2378 10010 8642 2559 3907 1050 125 361
48-80 .297 .384 .454 2230 09383 8080 2402 3668 0985 127 341

Again, to me these numbers look a whole lot more like Goose Goslin (OPS+ = 128, PA = 9822) than like George Burns (OPS+ = 114, PA = 8251) or Lou Brock (OPS+ = 109). Considering that when Goslin was elected he appeared on 49 of 52 ballots (including 42 votes in the top 5), I’ve been stunned at the lack of support for Minoso.
   115. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 22, 2006 at 06:16 PM (#1871361)
Brent,

He's clearly better than Brock on all counts. But I've got Burns over him on peak. This view is supported by both WS and WARP which have Burns enjoying more MVP-level seasons than Minoso. I don't tend to vote as much on career as peak, but Burns has just enough career to hold off Minoso IMO.

Just wait til Clemente or Dewey hit the board. If Minoso hasn't been elected by then, it's going to get real interesting to distinguish among them.
   116. Paul Wendt Posted: February 22, 2006 at 07:02 PM (#1871440)
I quoted and replied:

> In view of the strong support that Slaughter, Ashburn,
> Goslin, and Wheat received when they appeared on the ballot,
> I’m surprised at the lack of support for Minoso and hope that
> voters here will reconsider his case.


Ashburn is contemporary but his electoral strength (shoo-in at his time) may be derived from those who value fine defensive CFing more than you do. Wheat and Goslin are ancient history. So hang this hat on the Slaughter peg.</i>

Brett #41:
Considering that when Goslin was elected he appeared on 49 of 52 ballots (including 42 votes in the top 5), I’ve been stunned at the lack of support for Minoso.

My purpose was to prevent Brett and others from being stunned. Goslin might not get many of those 42 votes today. In contrast, I recommended "the Slaughter peg" because I think it's clear that the recently honored Enos would get most of his votes today.

Given the strong showing by Van Haltren today, it may be useful or interesting to make the same point in another way. It's possible that Goslin beats Van Haltren in 1940, because timeliners flock to his banner, but Van Haltren beats Goslin in 1970, because the timeliners have abandoned him for Minoso (this is theory!) while Van Haltren's 1940 support remains in place.
   117. sunnyday2 Posted: February 22, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#1871554)
>t's possible that Goslin beats Van Haltren in 1940, because timeliners flock to his banner, but Van Haltren beats Goslin in 1970, because the timeliners have abandoned him for Minoso (this is theory!) while Van Haltren's 1940 support remains in place.

I think that's right. Another of the ways in which timelining inserts an M.C. Escher quality to this exercise.
   118. sunnyday2 Posted: February 22, 2006 at 10:47 PM (#1871777)
>t's possible that Goslin beats Van Haltren in 1940, because timeliners flock to his banner, but Van Haltren beats Goslin in 1970, because the timeliners have abandoned him for Minoso (this is theory!) while Van Haltren's 1940 support remains in place.

I think that's right. Another of the ways in which timelining inserts an M.C. Escher quality to this exercise.
   119. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 22, 2006 at 10:49 PM (#1871782)
Thanks for stressing that point, Marc. ;-)
   120. Brent Posted: February 23, 2006 at 04:48 AM (#1872089)
It's possible that Goslin beats Van Haltren in 1940, because timeliners flock to his banner, but Van Haltren beats Goslin in 1970, because the timeliners have abandoned him for Minoso (this is theory!) while Van Haltren's 1940 support remains in place.

Yes, but my concern wasn't the timeliners, it's the "reverse timeliners" -- those who rank Minoso behind an outfielder from 40 years earlier whose OPS+ was a dozen points lower, with a thousand fewer plate appearances. Showing that the players with statistics similar to Minoso have consistently been elected (usually quite easily) is an argument to maintain consistent standards and avoid errors of omission.

Turning to the broader issue of timelining, Paul suggests an interesting idea for checking for timelining. If players tend to get strong support shortly after becoming eligible, and then see their support rapidly wane as time goes by, that would be evidence that voters are timelining. Comparing the 1970 results with those from 1945 (the year Goslin was elected) that seems to have been the case with Sewell, who came very close to being elected shortly after becoming eligible, but placed 18th on the latest ballot.

On the other hand, Sewell appears to have been an exception. Other "recent" candidates in 1945 included Eppa Rixey, who retained support for decades until finally elected, and George Sisler, who has maintained strong support. Generally, the current backlog looks pretty similar to what it was in 1945 with the additions of several new names (and the deletions of the handful who've been elected).

Another exception might be Negro League candidates, for whom there seems to be more of a "herd" effect. In 1945 Dick Lundy and Bill Monroe were still getting a lot of support, which has now pretty much dissipated. That support now seems to be going to Alejandro Oms and more recent arrivals like Willard Brown. (Earlier, the same thing happened to Spot Poles--he became unpopular and his support dried up.) But we generally haven't seen the major league candidates being abandoned in the same way.
   121. Paul Wendt Posted: February 23, 2006 at 06:16 PM (#1872546)
I agree that we haven't generally seen "major league candidates being abandoned" over time, so there is little evidence of this kind of timelining in the voting record. Goslin was elected in a landslide that can't generally be attributed to timelining. And the huge difference in initial support for Goslin and Minoso can't generally be attributed to timelining. Jimmy Ryan seems to be an exception.

If Goslin benefited significantly from timelining, in contrast to Van Haltren for example, that must be (in order to get significant effect from modest cause) in conjunction with other phenomena, such as a dearth of strong new candidates at other positions.

There are five pre- and Negro Leagues candidates in the ten leading incumbents, with two 19ers, Sisler, and Doerr and Gordon. That seems to be strong evidence only for Chris Cobb's observation that the electorate now handles almost all new candidates swiftly and surely.
   122. TomH Posted: February 23, 2006 at 06:32 PM (#1872569)
Paul, that COULD be, but my take is this is merely a function of our set-up.

Over time, most of our players are handled swfitly. The top 20 (to pick a # which will rhyme later to make a cute phrase) backlog guys are the ones who have straddled the fence over time, but this represents a smal portion all of our candidates. Add in those we've elected and those we've dismissed, and it's "twenty out of many".

So, we should expect most of our new guys to be dealt with swiftly as well; maybe only 5-10% will be neither honored or dimissed quickly. Fox perhaps? :)
   123. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: July 12, 2006 at 07:57 PM (#2097000)
Since I'm doing these for important/interesting NgL eligibles....

Minoso's early-career MLEs change just a little bit when you apply the recently published league averages.

YEAR LG AGE POS  AVG OBP SLG    G   PA   AB   H   TB  BB ops+  sfws
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1945 NL 19  OF .286 .362 .384  95  404  361 103  139  43  108  11.8
1946 NL 20  OF .243 .312 .360 132  554  503 122  181  51   90  11.3
1947 NL 21  OF .279 .353 .426 148  627  562 157  239  65  106  20.3
1948 NL 22  OF .289 .365 .433 147  628  560 162  243  67  115  21.9
1949 NL 23  OF .269 .326 .420 112  463  426 115  179  36   99  13.4
1950 NL 24  OF .307 .385 .439 136  581  515 158  226  66  116  22.2
===================================================================
               
.279 .351 .412 771 3256 2928 817 1208 328  106 100.9 


David Foss, please note the age change!

Again, SLG up a little, AVG down a little, but WS mostly unchanged. The shape of his career as initially interpreted remains as is.
   124. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: August 11, 2008 at 03:40 PM (#2898239)
Cross-posting:

I start giving Miñoso credit for his age-21 1947 season. It seems like Fielding Win Shares were never posted, so I'm just using his rate from the 1950's to measure the quality of his fielding for those years (which comes out to an extremely high +9-+10 per full season). I'm also correcting the data in the spreadsheet for his multi-positional '51 and '52, and incorporating the most recent version of BP FRAA. Here's what I get:

Year SFrac BWAA    BRWA FWAA Replc    WARP
1947  0.96  1.1    
-0.1  0.9  -0.8     2.7
1948  0.96  2.0    
-0.1  0.9  -0.8     3.6
1949  0.70  0.3    
-0.1  0.7  -0.6     1.5
1950  0.89  2.0    
-0.1  0.8  -0.8     3.6
1951  0.94  4.4     0.2 
-0.5  -0.9     5.1
1952  1.00  2.5    
-0.2  0.8  -1.2     4.3
1953  0.99  3.1    
-0.2  1.5  -0.9     5.4
1954  1.02  5.1     0.0  1.9  
-0.9     7.8
1955  0.92  1.7     0.1  1.1  
-0.8     3.7
1956  1.00  5.0     0.0 
-0.4  -0.8     5.5
1957  1.04  4.1    
-0.3  0.8  -0.8     5.3
1958  0.98  4.2    
-0.4  0.1  -0.8     4.7
1959  0.99  3.7    
-0.4  1.7  -0.7     5.8
1960  1.02  3.6    
-0.2 -0.4  -0.7     3.6
1961  0.93  2.0     0.0 
-1.1  -0.6     1.5
1962  0.16 
-0.6     0.1 -0.1  -0.1    -0.5
1963  0.53 
-0.9    -0.1 -0.9  -0.4    -1.6
TOTL 15.03 43.4    
-1.8  7.8 -12.6    62.0
TXBR 14.35 45.0    
-1.7  8.8 -12.1    64.1
AVRG  1.00  2.9    
-0.1  0.5  -0.8     4.1 


3-year peak: 19.0
7-year prime: 39.5
Career: 64.1

In my salary estimator, that's $173M, which is Kelley/Sheckard level. I would subjectively dock him a bit for league strength. Also, a very big chunk of his value is locked up in defense, so if you don't trust Fielding WS and BP FRAA, you might want to push him down as well. (TotalZone agrees with their take starting in 1956). On another note, his manager should never have allowed him to steal.
   125. Paul Wendt Posted: August 24, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2914903)
In the LF ballot thread Brock Hanke asked about the revised birth year 1925. I'm surprised there isn't more info here in the Minoso thread [oh, I didn't notice there are two pages]. See #19 for a 2003 profile at mlb.com that includes notice of correct birth year 1925. The print source is Minoso's autobiography although there have been interviews with him since then (such as for that 2003 profile).

Just Call Me Minnie: My Six Decades in Baseball
by Minnie Minoso (Author), Herb Fagen (Contributor)
[data from Amazon.com]
* Hardcover: 250 pages
* Publisher: Sagamore Publishing (April 1, 1994)
* Language: English
* ISBN-10: 0915611902
* ISBN-13: 978-0915611904
* Product Dimensions: 9.5 x 6.4 x 1 inches

I believe that the autobiographical account was generally unknown until 1999 or so when Dick Thompson discussed it by email to about 1000 SABR members. Thompson listed numerous reasons why some ballplayers have misrepresented their birth dates. Re Minoso, iirc, he was uncertain but leaned toward 1925 (the revision).

I try to keep up with approved revisions to biographical data by reading the SABR Biographical Research Committee newsletter but I don't remember the Minoso case. My only historical record is the Pete Palmer print encyclopedias Total Baseball and Baseball Encyclopedia. I have the 1993, 1999, and 2005 editions; all three list the old birth year 1922.
   126. DL from MN Posted: January 17, 2014 at 02:22 PM (#4641084)
Minoso should be up again on the 2015 VC ballot and Santo is no longer on the ballot. This might be his last, best chance to be inducted into the Hall of Fame while he's alive.

We'll be covering his peak through the MMP process this year.
   127. AROM Posted: January 17, 2014 at 02:54 PM (#4641122)
Here's a guess of who might be on next year's ballot, which covers players who had the bulk of their careers from 1947-1972:

Ken Boyer
Minnie
Vada Pinson
Dick Allen
Gil Hodges
Tony Oliva
Curt Flood
Roger Maris
Bill Freehan

Hard to see which pitchers would get a lot of support, but the most likely are:
Billy Pierce
Sam McDowell
Mickey Lolich
Allie Reynolds

Then there's Luis Tiant and Jim Kaat - tough calls because I don't know how it will be decided as to either pitcher belonging in the 1947-72 class or the 1973+ class. If I had to make the call I'd say Kaat is on this one and Tiant in the later class.
   128. AROM Posted: January 17, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4641131)
Minnie or Boyer (who is at 60+ Baseball WAR already and deserves probably 2 seasons of Korea WAR credit) are the best players from that group, but with Minnie still being around it would be preferable for him to get the call. And for him to play a game at Doubleday Field.
   129. DL from MN Posted: January 17, 2014 at 03:06 PM (#4641140)
Kaat and Tiant were both on the same ballot as Minoso and Santo last time. Kaat had 10 votes, Minoso and Hodges had 9. 12 are needed for induction. Santo's election clears 15 ballot slots, Minoso just needs to grab 3 of those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_balloting,_2012
   130. DL from MN Posted: January 17, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4641154)
Hall of Famers: Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Ralph Kiner, Tommy Lasorda, Juan Marichal, Brooks Robinson, Don Sutton, Billy Williams
Executives: Paul Beeston, Bill DeWitt, Roland Hemond, Gene Michael, Al Rosen
Media: Dick Kaegel, Jack O'Connell, Dave Van Dyck


That was the committee last time. It will be mostly the same this time around. I don't know who voted YES last time but it should be fairly easy to lobby the committee members by mail.

The Hall of Merit was asked for our opinion in the election that saw Deacon White inducted. Not sure our input made a big difference but it was nice to be asked.

Minoso has a better Hall of Fame case than Hall of Merit in my opinion and he's inducted into the Hall of Merit.
   131. DanG Posted: January 17, 2014 at 11:49 PM (#4641431)
Elect the living! Here's the pool of oldest candidates.

Living HOF candidates with most WAR, born 1943 or earlier:

Rk            Player WAR/pos Born OPS+   PA From   To
1         Dick Allen    58.6 1942  156 7315 1963 1977
2           Jim Wynn    55.7 1942  129 8011 1963 1977
3    Bert Campaneris    53.2 1942   89 9625 1964 1983
4      Minnie Minoso    50.2 1925  130 7712 1949 1980
5        Jim Fregosi    48.6 1942  113 7403 1961 1978
6          Roy White    46.3 1943  121 7735 1965 1979
7     Rocky Colavito    44.8 1933  132 7559 1955 1968
8       Bill Freehan    44.6 1941  112 6900 1961 1976
9         Tony Oliva    43.2 1938  131 6880 1962 1976
10           Al Dark    43.0 1922   98 7833 1946 1960
11       Felipe Alou    42.0 1935  113 7907 1958 1974
12       Maury Wills    39.7 1932   88 8306 1959 1972
13       Boog Powell    39.1 1941  134 7809 1961 1977
14   Rico Petrocelli    39.1 1943  108 6171 1963 1976
15        Bill White    38.9 1934  116 6678 1956 1969 

Rk            Player  WAR Born ERA+     IP From   To   W   L
1         Luis Tiant 65.9 1940  114 3486.1 1964 1982 229 172
2         Tommy John 62.2 1943  111 4710.1 1963 1989 288 231
3      Jerry Koosman 57.2 1942  110 3839.1 1967 1985 222 209
4       Billy Pierce 52.9 1927  119 3306.2 1945 1964 211 169
5        Wilbur Wood 52.3 1941  114 2684.0 1961 1978 164 156
6      Mickey Lolich 48.9 1940  104 3638.1 1963 1979 217 191
7        Milt Pappas 47.0 1939  110 3186.0 1957 1973 209 164
8         Bob Friend 46.8 1930  107 3611.0 1951 1966 197 230
9           Jim Kaat 45.4 1938  108 4530.1 1959 1983 283 237
10      Sam McDowell 42.9 1942  112 2492.1 1961 1975 141 134
11      Curt Simmons 42.5 1929  111 3348.1 1947 1967 193 183
12   Mel Stottlemyre 40.7 1941  112 2661.1 1964 1974 164 139 
   132. Chris Fluit Posted: January 18, 2014 at 09:41 AM (#4641467)
I hope that the hoopla over ichiro's 4000th professional hit helps out Minoso. A few articles pointed out that Minoso had 4000 hits between the Negro Leagues and the Major Leagues. Maybe it will spur the Veterans Committee into considering his entire career, which they are certainty entitled to do.
Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Syndicate

Page rendered in 0.3845 seconds
49 querie(s) executed