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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, November 12, 2018

Mock 2019 Today’s Game Hall of Fame Ballot

Candidates

Harold Baines
Albert Belle
Joe Carter
Will Clark
Orel Hershiser
Davey Johnson
Charlie Manuel
Lou Piniella
Lee Smith
George Steinbrenner

See full descriptions here

Vote for zero to four candidates

Voting will end Friday 11/16/2017 at 1pm EST

DL from MN Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:05 PM | 61 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. DL from MN Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5786075)
Keep the order as you see it above please (alphabetical).

Lou Piniella
   2. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5786079)
No one.
   3. Ziggy's screen name Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5786088)
Another vote for no one.
   4. Rally Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5786105)
Hershiser
Piniella
   5. bachslunch Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5786108)
Lou Pinella
Lee Smith
   6. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 12, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5786109)
I'd be stunned if we elect anybody. And ditto for the real committee - although I guess I could see Lee Smith making it given the relative lack of competition.

As for me, my vote will be:

Will Clark
Orel Hershiser
   7. DCA Posted: November 12, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5786114)
All of these guys would be borderline, not sniffing the top 10 of the regular ballot, but worthy enough to get the 4 spots on this ballot:

Clark
Hershiser
Piniella
Steinbrenner
   8. Chris Fluit Posted: November 12, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5786115)
Hershiser
Johnson
Piniella
Steinbrenner
   9. Bleed the Freak Posted: November 12, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5786141)
Will Clark
Orel Hershiser
Davey Johnson
George Steinbrenner

For those passing on Hershiser, the work done by Kiko and Dr. Chaleeko CHEWS+ show Orel above the line, add in some exemplary post-season work, and he's a guy I would REALLY like to see elected.
   10. cookiedabookie Posted: November 12, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5786150)
Will Clark
Orel Hershiser
Lee Smith

All three are borderline candidates. I won't be upset if they don't get in, but they all have an argument. Sad that the four best candidates were left off (Cone, McGwire, Saberhagen, Finley). Those first three are no-doubters for me.
   11. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 12, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5786165)
[This space intentionally left blank.]
   12. Baldrick Posted: November 12, 2018 at 03:45 PM (#5786170)
I can see a case for a few guys on this list, but none strike me as obvious, and I'm broadly skeptical of the proliferating set of committees designed to induct borderline guys. So I vote for no one.
   13. reech Posted: November 12, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5786183)
0.
None
Nada.
Zilch.
   14. Booey Posted: November 12, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5786186)
None of them.
   15. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: November 12, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5786191)
Davey Johnson
   16. The Duke Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:29 PM (#5786277)
Smith
Steinbrenner
   17. BDC Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5786280)
None.
   18. toratoratora Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:33 PM (#5786286)
None
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:35 PM (#5786287)
None
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5786288)
nobody. I'm not even seeing a borderline argument for the best candidate which is Hersh.
   21. QLE Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:54 PM (#5786296)
None of these people- the only players who are anywhere close are Hershiser (who is, in my view, a weaker version of Steib- and Steib's pretty near the pitcher borderline to me) and Clark (who has a case if you think Perez and Cepeda belong, but, if you don't.....), while none of the non-playing candidates strike me as especially deserving of induction.
   22. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:58 PM (#5786301)
George Steinbrenner

   23. Where have you gone Brady Anderson? Posted: November 12, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5786311)
None

Lot of players I liked growing up, who I would like to vote for, but no one who really deserves induction.
   24. Jaack Posted: November 12, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5786329)
Davey Johnson

Not voting for Hershiser or Clark, but not opposed to them in principle. None of the rest are particularly close for me.
   25. Howie Menckel Posted: November 12, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5786332)
Will Clark
Orel Hershiser
Davey Johnson
   26. bookbook Posted: November 12, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5786352)
Davey Johnson

And his locker
   27. Rennie's Tenet Posted: November 12, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5786366)
Belle
Clark
Hershiser
Johnson
   28. ajnrules Posted: November 12, 2018 at 11:07 PM (#5786382)
Albert Belle
Davey Johnson
Lou Piniella
George Steinbrenner
   29. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: November 12, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5786388)
Hershiser
Johnson
   30. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: November 13, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5786493)
Blank ballot
   31. DanG Posted: November 13, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5786561)
Clark
Hershiser
Piniella
Steinbrenner
   32. Carl Goetz Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5786847)
I'll go Clark and Hershiser.
   33. Willie Mays Hayes Posted: November 13, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5787016)
Will Clark
George Steinbrenner
   34. Bourbon Samurai, what price fettucine? Posted: November 14, 2018 at 08:32 AM (#5787108)
Hershisher
Steinbrenner
   35. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 14, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5787140)
Blank ballot--none of these candidates are over the line for me

I consider myself a semi-large HOF guy but unlike the Modern Baseball, Golden & Early Baseball Eras, the Today's Game Era has few solid candidates. Piniella is probably closest for me & a really great argument could possibly sway me on Hershiser.
   36. HGM Posted: November 14, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5787603)
None
   37. Skloot Insurance Posted: November 14, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5787624)
Blank ballot
   38. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 14, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5787647)
Is this a mock today's game consideration for HoM or an actual HoF question?

If the former - I think -- in order -- Hershiser, Clark, Steinbrenner, and Smith should get consideration.

If it's induction, then just Hershiser.

   39. Stormy JE Posted: November 14, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5787652)
NONE. (And it ain't even close.)
   40. homerwannabee Posted: November 15, 2018 at 06:59 AM (#5787698)
Steinbrenner. Anyone who says otherwise is clueless. He was by far the most successful owner in baseball during his tenure as owner. Over six titles, 7 if you want to include 2009. When Steinbrenner bought out the team in 1973 the Yankees had become a mediocre team from 1965 to 1972. They had one good season with a bunch of mediocre seasons. First owner to really take advantage of free agency, and use it to win a couple of world series titles in the 1970s. Under his ownership the Yankees would have a farm system second to none. Since George Steinbrenner has died in July 2010 The Yankees haven't been back to the world series. On top of that Steinbrenner had a larger than life personality. He is basically the ONLY baseball owner from 1975 to 2000 that is still remembered by many people to this day. He's personality is an integral part of Seinfeld. One of the greatest comedies of the 20th century. He actually hosted Saturday Night Live as well. Unbelievable that ANYONE would leave this person off their ballot. I'm dumbfounded.

Albert Belle. Has an OPS+ of 144. Short career, but he was an amazing player.

Lee Smith. Was the all time Saves Leader. Despite relievers having it much easier he's still top 3. Has a higher WAR than Trevor Hoffman 29 to 28. If people are going Hoffman in the Hall, then Lee Smith deserves it as well.

Orel Hershiser. 59 scoreless inning streak. It the Joe DiMaggio of Pitcher records.
   41. Lassus Posted: November 15, 2018 at 07:40 AM (#5787709)
Piniella
Johnson
   42. DL from MN Posted: November 15, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5787746)
Unbelievable that ANYONE would leave this person off their ballot. I'm dumbfounded.


Remember the character clause. Twice banned from baseball.
   43. ajnrules Posted: November 15, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5787807)
Is this a record for blank ballots on one of these mock ballots, DL from MN?
   44. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 15, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5787872)
None of the above.

Though if Bonds ever makes it past his character clause issue, I'd then vote for Steinbrenner. I'd vote for both of them now for the HoM, but not Cooperstown.

I don't like combining playing careers with managerial careers when neither career is HoF-worthy, and that's my take on Davey and Lou.

Other than that, lots of HoVG on that list but no HoF.
   45. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: November 15, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5788085)
The only HOF'er in this group is Steinbrenner. I would have never voted for him while he was alive bc of the character clause issues, but I think he deserves posthumous induction.
   46. Carl Goetz Posted: November 16, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5788351)
Response to homerwannabee post#40
"Albert Belle. Has an OPS+ of 144. Short career, but he was an amazing player."

He only really had 4 great years (94-96 & 98). Fielding matter too.

"Lee Smith. Was the all time Saves Leader. Despite relievers having it much easier he's still top 3. Has a higher WAR than Trevor Hoffman 29 to 28. If people are going Hoffman in the Hall, then Lee Smith deserves it as well."

He was only really dominant for 2 seasons. He accumulated a lot of saves by playing forever, but he was rarely the best closer/relief ace in the game. That said, neither was Hoffman, but I'm personally against the inclusion of both.

I was only looking at the players and managers before. I do think Steinbrenner should be in, though not because he was a good owner or was good for baseball in general. He most certainly was neither. He is the most remembered owner probably since Finley and before that Comiskey (Only the jerks are memorable apparently). A museum of baseball is incomplete without the Boss in it. And the Steinbrenner bits on Seinfeld were funny though probably not a reason to vote for him.
   47. Carl Goetz Posted: November 16, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5788357)
Response to post#44
"I don't like combining playing careers with managerial careers when neither career is HoF-worthy, and that's my take on Davey and Lou."
I agree with your logic unless the guy is a borderline Hall of Famer as a manager; then I might use playing career to put him over the top. I think Davey is borderline as a manager, but no where near as a player. Pinella is also borderline as a manager and even further away as a player. Plus, he flipped the finger at my Dad in 1979.
Ultimately, I agree with you that both are out.
   48. Rusty Priske Posted: November 16, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5788371)
Baines
Carter

(yes, the last is a homer pick. Too bad.)
   49. The Run Fairy Posted: November 16, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5788393)
Blank
   50. DL from MN Posted: November 16, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5788450)
Last call for votes. Election ends soon.
   51. Rally Posted: November 16, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5788462)
Hard to believe that Piniella, a guy I saw play, is 75. His teammate on the 84 Yankees, Phil Niekro, will turn 80 next spring.

I'm sympathetic to the half manager/ half player HOF though the concept is not really encouraged. But for Lou, it's as a manger or nothing. He played a long time, but only 12 WAR. He was halfway between replacement and average. Overrated in his time because his one skill was to hit for high averages, but a low power, no speed corner outfielder just doesn't win you that many games.
   52. dlf Posted: November 16, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5788476)
As Richard Pryor said in Brewster's Millions, vote none of the above
   53. DL from MN Posted: November 16, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5788477)
Election is over
   54. Lassus Posted: November 16, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5788563)
In retrospect, Steinbrenner meets the fame criteria and laps the field. The case, as gross as it is, is actually compelling. But I just couldn't vote for him.
   55. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 16, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5788586)
A museum of baseball is incomplete without the Boss in it.


But of course he can be in the Museum without making it to the plaque room. Just like Pete and Shoeless Joe.

Steinbrenner was a complex man. I hated his football-coach "winning is the only thing" mentality, the berating of players not for lack of effort but for the sort of physical errors that happen to everybody who ever tries to play the game, his constant feuding and firing...and yet, he was reputedly exceedingly generous in his private life, many people whom he seemed to treat rather badly in public were nevertheless quite loyal to him, and even Yogi eventually forgave him.

Personally, I think the plaque room should just be for players.
   56. Bleed the Freak Posted: December 09, 2018 at 08:57 PM (#5795631)
Brutal:
https://baseballhall.org/news/smith-baines-elected-to-hall-of-fame-by-todays-game-era-committee
   57. Rusty Priske Posted: December 10, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5795838)
Apparently I am in the minority that thinks they got it right by voting Baines in.

Smith is a hard 'no' however.
   58. Carl Goetz Posted: December 12, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5797073)
Rusty, I've read a lot of bad mouthing about the Baines selection over the past few days and, honestly, I agree with a lot of it. He's way down the list for me. I'd honestly like to hear the pro-Baines case from someone other than Jerry Reinsdorf (who frankly didn't even make a case beyond hit count).
   59. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: December 12, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5797160)
Hershiser and Clark are both at least "deserves consideration" for me.

Steinbrenner fits the pattern for owners who have been inducted, and is less odious than Yawkey.

I could get behind Davey's candidacy.
   60. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: December 12, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5797162)
Baines strikes me as an absolutely execrable selection.

Rather than pile on, I'd love to hear why Rusty disagrees.
   61. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: December 12, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5797178)
I didn't vote for Baines or anyone else in our mock ballot. I think Baines is a weak HOF selection but the not to the "let's tear down the system because Baines got elected" degree that some are making it out to be.

Obviously he had Reinsdorf & probably La Russia campaigning for him. This is not new, cronyism has always played a part in the VC/Era Committees under the current voting format: Reinsdorf campaigned for Minnie Miñoso (sadly, unsuccessfully on the Golden Era ballot). Rod Carew agreed to be a voter on the Pre-Integration ballot only if he could serve on the Golden Era ballot & campaign for Tony Oliva.

Baines case weighs heavy on complied stats & where he lies in all time career rankings of traditional stats: 2,866 hits (46th all time),384 homers (65th), 1,628 RBI (34th all time). Not to mention among non-HOFers he ranks much higher in those categories. Add to that, Baines lost time to the 1981 & 1994-95 strikes so factor that in & he's much closer to 3,000 hits, 400 HRs & 1,700 RBI. Moreover, he was well-liked & always acquired by the ChiSox & O's who obviously valued his services

Full disclosure when I was younger and first studied HOF candidates, I considered Baines a borderline HOFer when he was on the ballot. I noticed he was more of a complier but was impressed by his longevity & career totals. Of course, as I learned more about the game, the stats and HOF voting, Baines fell off my HOF radar. Now I advocate for mostly saber-friendly HOF candidates like Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich & Dwight Evans

It was nice to see Baines make the ballot but like everyone else, I didn't think he'd come close to or actually be elected

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