Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Hall of Merit > Discussion
Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Saturday, September 27, 2008

Monte Irvin to the LF ballot

If you voted in the LF election, please let us know where you would slot Monte Irvin. Irvin was originally on the CF ballot, but later we decided LF was the more appropriate place for him.

Thanks!

Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: September 27, 2008 at 04:47 AM | 62 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: September 27, 2008 at 04:50 AM (#2957915)
If we could post Irvin's MLE here, that'd be great - has a complete one been posted?
   2. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:02 AM (#2957921)
This isn't really on topic, but at least it's tangential:

Can anybody recommend some excellent books on the Negro Leagues? It's an area of the sport that any fan of baseball should be completely fascinated in, but I (like many others) am criminally undereducated with regards to. I'd love to change that.
   3. OCF Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:29 AM (#2957927)
From the CF discussion thread:

77. DL from MN Posted: August 27, 2008 at 11:48 AM (#2918545)
Actually it got easier once I looked into it. There's a 5 point gap between Al Simmons and Jimmy Sheckard in my spreadsheet. I don't know exactly where Monte Irvin will fall but it is highly likely to be somewhere in there. Slot him at 10th between them on my revised LF ballot.

78. Mark Donelson Posted: August 27, 2008 at 02:20 PM (#2918781)
I would have Irvin 12th among LFs, between Magee and Billy Williams.


I'm going to count both of those as ballots. (If either DL from MN or Mark Donelson object to that, he can post a revision.)

I've rigged a spreadsheet that will work with precisely that information, provided you voted in the LF ballot. This will work best if all 22 of the voters in that election post their placement of Irvin. It's not clear to me whether we will or won't count any brand-new ballots, but in any case, any brand-new ballot would have to include all 22 eligible players. (See the LF discussion thread for the names of the other 21.)

2 votes case, 20 to go.
   4. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:51 AM (#2957943)
I was wondering whether Irvin would have been elected as easily had he been in LF all along, but the two "ballots" above seem to indicate he would have.
   5. bjhanke Posted: September 27, 2008 at 07:57 AM (#2957975)
I posted this way back when I was about to leave for out of town. I looked it over and I still agree with it. Please regard it as my official vote for Monte Irvin in left field. - Brock

I have no opinion on where to place Monte Irvin (meaning which outfield position to assign him). However, I'm about to go out of town again, for the last time this year, so if I'm going to place him among the left fielders, I'd better do it now. I took a look at the fine Irvin thread, thought about it for a bit, and decided to vote him 15th on my ballot, between Medwick and Minoso. The thread's comparison with Medwick was a real help, as they do turn out to look similar. I'm not sure Irvin was better than Minoso, but I'm pretty sure they were really close. - Brock
   6. Brent Posted: September 27, 2008 at 02:42 PM (#2958078)
Can anybody recommend some excellent books on the Negro Leagues?


As a general introduction, I recommend Shades of Glory by Lawrence Hogan. Other excellent books that provide a good background include Baseball's Great Experiment: Jackie Robinson and His Legacy by Jules Tygiel, Beyond the Shadow of the Senators: The Untold Story of the Homestead Grays and the Integration of Baseball by Brad Snyder, and the now somewhat dated classic, Only the Ball Was White by Robert Peterson. Unfortunately, we're still waiting for the Hall of Fame to publish a comprehensive and accurate statistical encyclopedia. Until then, the best available reference books include The Complete Book of Baseball's Negro Leagues: The Other Half of Baseball History by John Holway, The Negro Leagues Book by Dick Clark and Larry Lester,</i> and The Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues by James Riley. I'll also put in a plug for Gary Ashwill's excellent Web site, agatetype.typepad.com.
   7. Chris Cobb Posted: September 27, 2008 at 06:57 PM (#2958330)
I would have placed Monte Irvin at #11 on my left field ballot:

9) Billy Williams
10) Jimmy Sheckard
11) Monte Irvin
12) Willie Stargell

He's only a little behind Stargell as a hitter but much better defensively than Stargell. Like Stargell, he had some trouble staying in the lineup. Although they were very different players stylistically, that's his best comp. Williams bests him on durability, as he bests Stargell. Irvin vs. Sheckard was nearly a coin toss. I'm a little worried about Irvin's top season having been in Mexico, so I give the edge to Sheckard.
   8. Mike Webber Posted: September 27, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2958575)
A couple of books I would add,
Buck O'Neil's I Was Right on Time,
Holway's Voices from the Great Black Baseball Leagues
both of those are nice oral histories essentially. I own Trouppe's 20 Years Too Soon, but haven't read it. I should add it to my pile of books to read.

And in the fiction area
The Bingo Long Traveling All-Stars and Motor Kings by William Brashler is so much better than the movie.
The Vera Cruz Blues by Mark Winegardner may be the best piece of baseball fiction I ever read. This book is a great insight into the Mexican Leagues just after WW2.

If there was a BB HOM for fiction, well it would be right there,Bang the Drum Slowly, The Iowa Baseball Confederacy, The Universal Baseball Association, Inc., J. Henry Waugh, Proprietor , The Celebrant, If I Never Get Back , and probably one of Troy Soos' mystery books.

Oh, I also wanted to mention Dr. Tygiel's book is very good, but he was an academic, and it sometimes reads that way. It is info packed but not a pleasant read.

One other thing that you might notice as you read Negro League stuff, the guys that played back East are somewhat bitter (GENERALLY) about the experience, but the guys who played in KC and Chicago generally talk about how much they loved that part of their life. I think that is Buck O'Neil, he loved it, and I think he made everyone around him love it.
   9. Brent Posted: September 27, 2008 at 11:25 PM (#2958904)
Another book I'll mention for a fun read is Satchel Paige's autobiography, Maybe I'll Pitch Forever. You don't want to treat everything he says as factual history, but he's a good story teller.
   10. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: September 28, 2008 at 10:34 PM (#2959262)
Updated MLE's, please?
   11. Chris Cobb Posted: September 29, 2008 at 02:05 AM (#2959503)
Updated MLE's, please?

Not before Thursday.

For those eyeballing their placement of Irvin, I don't believe new MLEs will be very different from the current ones--one reason I didn't leap to doing new MLEs before I ventured my own placement of Irvin. But new MLEs will be more reliable and can serve as a basis for Dan's running Irvin through his system to calculate WAR, so I will get to them as soon as I can.
   12. DL from MN Posted: September 29, 2008 at 03:11 PM (#2959967)
My comment is still valid, unless the MLEs show something different.
   13. sunnyday2 Posted: September 30, 2008 at 01:09 AM (#2960720)
Re. comment #4: When I voted for Irvin, he was a LFer. Later on he became a CF, and now he's back in LF again. At the time, I think everybody knew he moved around a bit. It's like called Pete Browning a CF. I hope everybody knows he played something like 50 more games in CF than LF.
   14. sunnyday2 Posted: September 30, 2008 at 01:11 AM (#2960722)
I would have had him #14. This is my official ballot on the subject.
   15. Mark Donelson Posted: September 30, 2008 at 01:29 AM (#2960734)
I would have had him #12.
   16. Rick A. Posted: September 30, 2008 at 01:45 AM (#2960740)
Monte Irvin would be #9 on my ballot.
   17. Howie Menckel Posted: September 30, 2008 at 02:24 AM (#2960769)
Another voter checks in
I have Irvin at #15, a nudge behind Kelley (I like the one-league high prime) and just ahead of Goslin
   18. ronw Posted: September 30, 2008 at 07:25 PM (#2961379)
Monte Irvin would be #14 on my ballot.
   19. OCF Posted: October 01, 2008 at 03:53 AM (#2962064)
Minoso is a key marker for me. Using the younger age for Minoso, it's clear that Irvin was as good from the age of 31 on - and Irvin had a peak in his early 20's that Minoso didn't. So Irvin has to be a few notches ahead of Minoso. (I am keeping a combined LF/RF chart.)

I'll put him 14th on my ballot, below Wheat and ahead of Medwick.

9 ballots cast, 13 to go.
   20. EricC Posted: October 02, 2008 at 12:20 AM (#2963503)
He's #15 of 22 on my ballot, below Wheat and above Medwick.
   21. whoisalhedges Posted: October 02, 2008 at 05:34 PM (#2964681)
#15

Behind Minoso (what Monte did in short MLB seasons after age 30, Minnie did while playing full seasons after 30 -- just a straight comparison at what they accomplished at the same age), and ahead of Wheat.
   22. DL from MN Posted: October 02, 2008 at 07:23 PM (#2964833)
"what Monte did in short MLB seasons after age 30, Minnie did while playing full seasons after 30"

Seems to short the fact that Monte Irvin played some infield throughout his 20s making him probably more valuable during that period even calling his bat even with Minoso.
   23. andrew siegel Posted: October 05, 2008 at 01:54 PM (#2969039)
I am surprised by this, but when I reviewed the threads and the numbers, Irvin comes in #10, between Keller and Williams.
   24. OCF Posted: October 09, 2008 at 01:16 AM (#2974890)
The 10 people who haven't voted yet: Chris Cobb, Devin McCullen, Esteban Rivera, Joe Dimino, John Murphy, mulder & scully, Rusty Priske, Sean Gilman, Tiboreau, TomH.
   25. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 09, 2008 at 01:39 AM (#2974913)
I haven't either, still waiting for MLE's.
   26. OCF Posted: October 09, 2008 at 02:23 AM (#2974945)
Sorry - slipped a line there. For "Chris Cobb" in post #24, read "Dan R." Chris has voted. The count of 10 voters left is correct.
   27. TomH Posted: October 09, 2008 at 12:41 PM (#2975104)
Place Irvin at #16 on my ballot.
   28. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: October 10, 2008 at 04:45 PM (#2975983)
I'm waiting for the MLE's too.
   29. Chris Cobb Posted: October 10, 2008 at 09:04 PM (#2976261)
I'm working on new MLEs for Irvin, and I should be able to finish them this weekend.

Irvin's MLEs are a pain, because he has three different seasons in which he played in two different leagues with different competition levels, which have to be integrated before they can be converted to MLEs and put into the regression equations.

But they are almost done.
   30. Chris Cobb Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:31 AM (#2976647)
Cross-posted from the Monte Irvin thread

Monte Irvin MLEs, second edition

Age Year  Team  G   PA  Hits  TB   BB  SB   BA     OBP    SA    OPS+
20  1939  New   75  301   83  126  25   0  0.301  0.358  0.456  117
21  1940  
New  128  504  146  238  45   5  0.319  0.379  0.518  145
22  1941  
New  141  556  173  281  49  21  0.341  0.399  0.554  166
23  1942
Vera 146  591  168  305  71  17  0.324  0.405  0.586  188
24  1943  Military Service       
25  1944  Military Service        
26  1945
* New   30  120   33   52   9   0  0.302  0.357  0.467  128
27  1946  
New  144  605  173  283  63   8  0.320  0.390  0.522  157
28  1947  
New  150  630  164  282  92   8  0.305  0.407  0.524  146
29  1948  
New  116  487  122  210  64  12  0.289  0.381  0.495  136
30  1949
JC    99  356   89  143  65  10  0.307  0.434  0.493  148
31  1950
NYG  128  512  135  245  77   5  0.310  0.414  0.563  154
32  1951  NYG  151  657  174  287  89  12  0.312  0.415  0.514  147
33  1952  NYG   46  137   39   55  10   0  0.310  0.365  0.437  120
34  1953  NYG  124  502  146  240  55   2  0.329  0.406  0.541  142
35  1954  NYG  135  512  113  189  70   7  0.262  0.363  0.438  108
36  1955  NYG   51  173   38   50  17   3  0.253  0.337  0.333  79
37  1956  NYG  111  387   92  156  41   1  0.271  0.346  0.460  116
career        1775 7030 1890 3140 842 111  0.308  0.389  0.512  144 


1942* Veracruz in MXL; Also played for Newark
1945* Missed time in this season is due to military service; credit appropriate
1949* Jersey City in International League; also played for New York Giants
1950* Also played for Jersey City

Notes on conversions.
For 1942 MxL, conversion factors of .87/.76 were applied
For 1949-50 IL conversion factors of .93/.86 were applied
For 1939-48, regression to a 3-5 year mean was applied.
For 1949-50, minor league stats were converted to MLEs and added to major-league stats for those seasons to produce seasonal totals.
For 1951-56, totals are for major-league play only

I haven’t done estimated extra base hit totals. Since Irvin has a major-league profile, I assume that will provide the necessary information for estimated baserunning wins for his pre-ML seasons. His higher stolen base totals before WWII would very likely have been matched by higher totals of triples in those seasons. I would guess his base-running value was pretty consistent 1946-51; after that he was significantly hampered by ankle injuries.
   31. Esteban Rivera Posted: October 12, 2008 at 11:11 PM (#2979998)
Irvin would be 12 on my ballot, between Wheat and C. Jones.
   32. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: October 19, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2988111)
Irvin comes in at #13 on my ballot, between Wheat and Magee.
   33. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 19, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2988153)
I'm going to slot Irvin at #9 between Clarke and Keller tentatively.
   34. OCF Posted: October 19, 2008 at 11:44 PM (#2988163)
Still need six more votes to finish this: Dan R, Joe Dimino, mulder & scully, Rusty Priske, Sean Gilman, and Tiboreau. Some of you just voted in the RF ballot - how about coming over here?
   35. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 20, 2008 at 01:24 PM (#2989844)
I am still waiting for a positional breakdown and revised Fielding Win Shares for Irvin.
   36. Sean Gilman Posted: October 20, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2990226)
And I'm waiting for Dan R's numbers.
   37. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 26, 2008 at 11:41 PM (#2995742)
Irvin slides in at #6 for me ahead of Burkett, assuming Chris Cobb confirms that he truly projects that Irvin could have fielded his NgL CF/SS/2B mix at an MLB league average-plus level.
   38. DL from MN Posted: October 27, 2008 at 05:34 PM (#2996669)
Irvin moves from 10th to 7th with the new numbers between Clarke and Burkett. This basically means Irvin was better than Will Clark's career before age 30 because that was what I was using as a proxy for Irvin.
   39. Sean Gilman Posted: October 27, 2008 at 08:09 PM (#2996843)
Thanks for the new numbers guys!

I'm going to put Irvin at #13.

11. Kelley
12. Jones
13. Irvin
14. Magee
15. Keller
   40. OCF Posted: October 28, 2008 at 12:13 AM (#2997035)
Now four votes to go. One of them is Joe Dimino - where is Joe, anyway? I think we need action on the 2009 regular ballot.
   41. mulder & scully Posted: October 28, 2008 at 09:26 PM (#2998108)
I just put Dan's numbers into my system. Insert Irvin into 6th after Yastrzemski. He is just about tied with Yaz, and significantly ahead of any others. Thanks for waiting.
   42. Tiboreau Posted: October 29, 2008 at 08:36 AM (#2998420)
On my CF ballot I indicated that Mr. Irvin would be 10th among HoM left fielders. With the addition of Dan R's numbers Monte Irvin moves to 7th.
   43. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:41 AM (#2999012)
Hey guys, been pretty busy this past week or two.

I'm around . . . I will vote on Irvin, but I was waiting for DanR's conversion of Chris Cobb's MLEs . . .

As for the regular ballot, I'll comment on that thread so as not to soil the Irvin thread . . .
   44. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: November 04, 2008 at 03:29 AM (#3002266)
Dan, are you going to post your numbers for Irvin? Or are they somewhere I might have missed? Just want to check before I vote. Thanks!
   45. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 04, 2008 at 04:00 AM (#3002284)
They're on his thread. I would recommend using the figures in my final post (where I subjectively reduced his FWAA) rather than the ones in the chart a few posts above for his NgL years--I do not think he would have been an average-plus fielding shortstop in the majors.
   46. Paul Wendt Posted: November 14, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#3009531)
How are we doing on Irvin?
Maybe Joe and John have email addresses for "all" voters, nearly?
   47. OCF Posted: November 15, 2008 at 01:09 AM (#3009628)
How are we doing? The answer is that I need exactly two votes in order to declare it finished. One is Joe Dimino and the other is Rusty Priske. As of now, I am certain of where Irvin will rank, but I'd like to see at least one of those two votes before going public with what I have. Votes for Irvin are also causing some slight movements among other candidates, where there were ties or near-ties in the original balloting.
   48. DL from MN Posted: November 24, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#3015072)
I kind of assumed we would be done with this by now....
   49. OCF Posted: December 01, 2008 at 03:15 AM (#3017753)
In a thread concerning Minnie Minoso, I posted that Minoso ranked 18th out of 22 HoM left fielders and that Irvin ranked 10th. That statement - that Irvin ranks 10th - is based on a bit of a projection. It assumes that at least one of Joe or Rusty would place Irvin in the general middle of the pack, consistent with most other voters. If both Joe and Rusty ranked him in the 20-21-22 range, such as both 21st, then Irvin would be 11th behind Stargell. But if they both put him 20th, that would put Irvin ahead of Stargell. There's a pretty large gap in front of that, so if both Joe and Rusty were to rank Irvin 3rd, then he's still be 10th behind Billy Williams. So even though it's a projection, I'd say the ranking of Irvin as 10th is pretty solid.

1. T. Williams
2. Musial
--- (Henderson is not yet officially a HoMer) ---
3. Delahanty
4. Yastrzemski
5. Raines
6. Burkett
7. Simmons
8. Clarke
9. B. Williams
10. Irvin
11. Stargell
12. Magee
13. Sheckard
14. Wheat
15. Keller (Adding Irvin to the ballot breaks some ties)
16. Kelley
17. Goslin
18. Minoso
19. Jones
20. Medwick
21. Stovey
22. Kiner

It's still possible for the exact votes of Joe and Rusty to affect the Sheckard/Wheat/Keller/Kelley order.
   50. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 08:44 AM (#3017830)
Hey guys, I will vote on Irvin, but I cannot do it before Wednesday, I'm tied up for the next few days out of town. Very sorry for the delay.

--Joe
   51. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: December 07, 2008 at 09:56 PM (#3022458)
Finally, sorry for the lateness . . .

I place Monte Irvin 6th, with no other changes:

Inserting him between Yaz and Fred Clarke.

This makes my ballot:

1. Ted Williams (2.99)
Barry Bonds (2.70 through 2005)
2. Stan Musial (2.23)
Rickey Henderson (1.74)
3. Ed Delahanty (1.15)
4. Tim Raines (1.23)
5. Carl Yastrzemski (1.23)

6. Monte Irvin (1.24) - I'm using Dan's more conservative fielding numbers (see post 165 on the Irvin thread), and this drops him from 1.30 to 1.24 PA. I think Irvin's MLEs are still somewhat optimistic and open to a lot of judgement due to his fielding. You could easily justify nudging him ahead of Raines/Yaz, but I'm not ready to pull that trigger. It would be foolish to assume our metrics are precise to the 1/100th decimal place, to be honest, I probably shouldn't even list it, and should round them all off to 1.2.

7. Fred Clarke (1.14)
8. Jesse Burkett (1.05)
9. Billy Williams (1.05)
Manny Ramirez
10. Al Simmons (1.02)
11. Zack Wheat (.96)
12. Jimmy Sheckard (.95)
13. Minnie Minoso (.96)
14. Sherry Magee (.93)
15. Willie Stargell (.93)
16. Joe Kelley (.93)
17. Goose Goslin (.89)
18. Charlie Keller (.88)
19. Charley Jones
20. Harry Stovey
21. Joe Medwick (.85)
   52. OCF Posted: December 07, 2008 at 10:37 PM (#3022481)
The "final" vote:

If Rusty Priske were to put Irvin 6th (the highest anyone had him - Dan R and Joe D had him 6th), then the vote would be:

1. T.Williams 484
2. Musial 462
3. Delahanty 429
4. Yastrzemski 414
5. Raines 387
6. Burkett 355
7. Simmons 349
8. Clarke 330
9. B.Williams 278
10. Irvin 261
11. Stargell 230
12. Magee 198
13. Sheckard 178
14. Wheat 177
15. Keller 174
16. Kelley 172
17. Goslin 167
18. Minoso 135
19. Jones 111
20. Medwick 98
21. Stovey 91
22. Kiner 86

And if Rusty were to put Irvin 16th (the lowest anyone had him - TomH had him 16th with bjhanke, whoisalhedges, and Howie Menckel having him 15th), then the vote would be:

1. T.Williams 484
2. Musial 462
3. Delahanty 429
4. Yastrzemski 414
5. Raines 387
6. Burkett 356
7. Simmons 350
8. Clarke 331
9. B.Williams 279
10. Irvin 251
11. Stargell 231
12. Magee 199
13. Sheckard 179
14. Wheat 178
15. Keller 174
16. Kelley 173
17. Goslin 168
18. Minoso 135
19. Jones 111
20. Medwick 98
21. Stovey 91
22. Kiner 86

With Rickey Henderson dead certain to be a 2009 HoM electee (unanimous first so far) it's fair to think about adding Rickey to this list. Most likely, he'd be a near-unanimous 3rd and place 3rd, with everyone from Delahanty on down sliding down one notch.

Since Barry Bonds is not yet HoM eligible, I won't talk about his placement.
   53. OCF Posted: December 07, 2008 at 10:52 PM (#3022491)
In post #51, Joe should have said "22. Ralph Kiner."

It doesn't matter - I kept his prior vote, and in his prior vote, he did have Kiner last. The presumption here is that he inserted Irvin but didn't change anything else.
   54. Juan V Posted: December 07, 2008 at 10:55 PM (#3022493)
Speaking of, how are we going to handle this year's electees (and those of the future, for that matter) in the positional rankings?
   55. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: December 07, 2008 at 11:00 PM (#3022498)
Juan V., is your handle a Rickey reference?
   56. Juan V Posted: December 07, 2008 at 11:10 PM (#3022505)
Yup.
   57. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: December 08, 2008 at 01:03 AM (#3022534)
Correct presumption. I missed him when copying my guys over, thanks! I'll also add that I had a bunch of guys between 21 and 22 if they were in.

Would still like to see Rusty's final placement of Irvin before updating the final tally.
   58. Rusty Priske Posted: December 12, 2008 at 07:21 PM (#3027620)
Here I am!


Sorry, I totally whiffed on this.

I'll go 12th.
   59. OCF Posted: December 13, 2008 at 12:23 AM (#3028042)
I'm reading that as Rusty placing Wheat 11th, Irvin 12th, and Magee 13th. With that, these are my final point totals. The first number after the name is the number of points; the second number is the the average rank of that candidate.

1.  T.Williams  484  1.00
2.  Musial 
. .  462  2.00
3.  Delahanty 
429  3.50
4.  Yastrzemski 414  4.18
5.  Raines 
. .  387  5.41
6.  Burkett 
. . 356  6.82
7.  Simmons 
. . 350  7.09
8.  Clarke 
. .  331  7.95
9.  B
.Williams  279 10.32
10. Irvin 
. . . 255 11.41
11. Stargell 
.  231 12.50
12. Magee 
. . . 198 14.00
13. Sheckard 
.  178 14.91
13. Wheat 
. . . 178 14.91
15. Keller 
. .  174 15.09
16. Kelley 
. .  172 15.18
17. Goslin 
. .  167 15.41
18. Minoso 
. .  135 16.86
19. C
.Jones . . 111 17.95
20. Medwick 
. .  98 18.55
21. Stovey 
. . . 91 18.86
22. Kiner 
. . .  86 19.09 


I don't know if anyone else was tallying, so this isn't cross-checked. I can figure out how many votes of each type each candidate got, (Ted Williams and Musial are both easy), but I don't have an easy way to format that.
   60. OCF Posted: December 13, 2008 at 02:05 AM (#3028118)
Irvin's particular votes:
6th place: 3 votes
7th place: 2 votes
8th place: 0
9th place: 2 votes
10th place: 1 vote
11th place: 1 vote
12th place: 3 votes
13th place: 2 votes
14th place: 3 votes
15th place: 4 votes
16th place: 1 vote
   61. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 14, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#3028685)
I don't know if anyone else was tallying, so this isn't cross-checked.


It is now, OCF. Your numbers are correct.
   62. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: December 15, 2008 at 03:23 AM (#3028907)
Would someone be able to send the updated numbers for everyone's full ballot placing? I can then update the LF thread.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Phil Birnbaum
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Syndicate

Page rendered in 0.6379 seconds
49 querie(s) executed