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Thursday, July 23, 2015

Most Meritorious Player: 1907 Ballot

For 1907, each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 12 August 2015. (I’m on vacation on the 5th)

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 11 August 2015.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: July 23, 2015 at 01:18 PM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: July 23, 2015 at 02:16 PM (#5005248)
1907 Ballot

1) Honus Wagner - by a large margin
2) Sherry Magee - good glove
3) Ty Cobb
4) Napoleon Lajoie - excellent fielding numbers
5) Elmer Flick
6) Ed Karger - best pitcher
7) Danny McClellan - not as good as Walsh as a pitcher but much better bat
8) George Stone
9) Ed Walsh
10) Tommy Leach

11-15) Fred Clarke, Art Devlin, Christy Mathewson, Sam Crawford, Cy Young
16-20) Pete Hill, Topsy Hartsel, Ginger Beaumont, Orval Overall, Eddie Plank
21-22) Roger Bresnahan, Ed Killian
   2. bjhanke Posted: July 24, 2015 at 05:22 PM (#5006167)
DL - Thanks for the extension. I'm just back from L. A., and will be working GenCon next week. Having the week after that to do this really helps my schedule. - Brock Hanke
   3. Chris Fluit Posted: July 27, 2015 at 05:18 PM (#5007489)
1907 Ballot

There is a significant difference between my prelim and my final ballot. I decided that WAR was getting at something I wasn't by crediting the Cubs' defense rather than their pitchers so Pfeister and Lundgren fell off my ballot. As an added bonus, McClellan and Stone now make my ballot; I had felt bad about leaving both of them off.

1. Honus Wagner, SS, Pittsburgh Pirates: 1st in NL OPS+ and RC; a huge lead over the rest of the field- the gap from Wagner to Magee is the same as Magee to Brain
2. Sherry Magee, LF, Philadelphia Phillies: 2nd in NL OPS+ and RC, adds +8 fielding on defense
3. Ed Walsh, P, Chicago White Sox: 1st in AL ERA+ with 150 while pitching an astronomical 422 IP
4. Ty Cobb, RF, Detroit Tigers: 1st in AL OPS+ and RC; a CF bonus would have pushed the Georgia Peach ahead of Walsh
5. Sam Crawford, CF, Detroit Tigers: 2nd in AL OPS+ and RC
6. Napoleon Lajoie, 2B, Cleveland Naps: 6th in AL OPS+, 7th in RC, great defense at the keystone
7. Addie Joss, P, Cleveland Naps: 136 ERA+ in 338 IP
8. Ginger Beaumont, CF, Boston Doves: 3rd in NL OPS+ and RC; -4 fielding run at a premium defensive position; narrowly beats out McClellan and Stone for the final ballot spot
9.. Dan McClellan, P, Philadelphia Giants: 213 ERA+ and 108 OPS+
10. George Stone, LF, St. Louis Browns: 152 OPS+ and 91 RC
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 07, 2015 at 03:30 PM (#5015298)
Official 1907 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a slight adjustment downward for AL players):

1) Honus Wagner: Best ML player and shortstop.
2) Ty Cobb: Best AL player and right fielder.
3) Sherry Magee: Best ML left fielder.
4) Ed Walsh: Best ML pitcher.
5) Carl Lundgren: Best NL pitcher.
6) Sam Crawford: Best ML center fielder.
7) Orval Overall: Best alliterative name.
8) Mordecai Brown: Best mutilated hand.
9) Christy Mathewson: Best Tom Seaver antecedent.
10) Elmer Flick: Best ML right fielder.
   5. EricC Posted: August 08, 2015 at 04:32 PM (#5015686)
1907 MMP ballot. Right or wrong, my system is showing a fairly
strong AL advantage at this time. Wagner is still #1 of course,
but players like Magee are probably below the consensus.

1. Honus Wagner
2. Ty Cobb
3. Ed Walsh
4. Sam Crawford
5. Nap Lajoie
6. Sherry Magee
7. Elmer Flick
8. Danny McClellan
9. Ed Killian
10. Addie Joss
   6. bjhanke Posted: August 08, 2015 at 07:43 PM (#5015753)
This is Brock Hanke’s ballot for 1907. Its probably my final ballot, because I’m running out of time; I would like to do a little more looking, but I doubt I’d change much, except maybe in the Negro Leagues. That, I need to explain. I was wandering around Seamheads for 1907, and came across some unusual suspects, much like discovering Danny Mc Clellan a couple of years ago. There’s a guy in the Cuban Summer League (Alfredo Cabrera) who might be the best negro player out there, but I’m not even sure if that league is supposed to count, and I’m not at all sure that this guy was the best, even if his league counted. Seamheads lists him as the best hitter of the year, but it’s Cuba. I have no idea how to compare the Cuban Summer League of 1907 to other negro / Latin leagues.

The big guy I found was Harry Buckner. Buckner is listed as the top pitcher for the year, but that label seems, in Seamheads, to land on the guy who played the most at a good level, instead of someone who played a little less, but at a higher level. Buckner led his league in IP, although this isn’t much of a distinction, as his team (the Brooklyn Royal Giants) played more games than anyone else. His ERA+ is only 99, which is just average, and his team finished third with him pitching most or all of the innings. However, he also turned out to be one of the best HITTERS in the league, with a OPS+ of 145. He was not one of the VERY best hitters – Bruce Petway had an OPS+ of 188 (and played catcher). But Petway didn’t pitch.

I had a tie at #10 anyway, Christy Mathewson and Addie Joss, and I just decided to put Buckner in at #10, and see who writes what comments. Again, the credentials are, basically, these: Buckner pitched a lot of innings, but was an average pitcher. However, he was also one of the ten best hitters in the league, though not one of the best five. That seems like it should have more value than a better hitter who had much less defensive responsibility. Also, average is not replacement rate, so Buckner had value as a pitcher; it’s just not the kind of value we normally expect to drive a pitcher to a star ranking. He’s a very odd case.

So, without further ado, here are the rankings:

1. Honus Wagner (best NL hitter)
2. Ed Walsh (best AL pitcher)
3. Sherry Magee
4. Ty Cobb (best AL hitter)
5. Ed Killian
6. Nap Lajoie
7. Sam Crawford
8. Elmer Flick
9. Orval Overall (best NL pitcher)
10. Harry Buckner
   7. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: August 12, 2015 at 07:59 AM (#5017671)
Quick ballot (on vacation)

1. Honus Wagner
2. Nap Lajoie
3. Ty Cobb
4. Ed Walsh
5. Sherry Magee
6. Christy Mathewson
7. Cy Young
8. Ed Killian
9. Sam Crawford
10. Tommy Leach
   8. DL from MN Posted: August 13, 2015 at 10:13 AM (#5018414)
Ballot was supposed to close yesterday but I only have six of them.
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 13, 2015 at 12:44 PM (#5018592)
Probably a Yahoo! broadcast e-mail is needed.
   10. DL from MN Posted: August 13, 2015 at 01:28 PM (#5018630)
I'll give it another week
   11. caiman Posted: August 13, 2015 at 04:57 PM (#5018896)
Here's the RPA top 10 players for 1907, based upon Run value above median:

1. Elmer Flick 42.75 runs
2. Christy Mathewson 41.33 runs
3. Honus Wagner 39.10 runs
4. Ty Cobb 35.19 runs
5. George Stone 34.86 runs
6. Sherry Magee 31.32 runs
7. Sam Crawford 29.39 runs
8. Ed Walsh 29.12 runs
9. Ginger Beaumont 26.87 runs
10. Vic Willis 26.35 runs
   12. DL from MN Posted: August 13, 2015 at 06:19 PM (#5018975)
Vic Willis is kind of a shocker for me since his 1907 ERA+ is only slightly above average.
   13. toratoratora Posted: August 17, 2015 at 05:18 PM (#5020984)
1907 Final ballot

1-Honus Wagner-Leads league in 2b, SB, BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, RC and TB. At the ripe age of 33 (Steroids, obviously-see Young, Cy for example #2) has the first of three straight years he'll win the stat triple crown. A rare off year fielding (-5 rField).

2-Ty Cobb-His first great year. leads league in Hits, RBI, SB, BA, SLG, OPS, OPS+, TB, RC and angry teammates. I have a feeling we'll be seeing him again.

3-Ed Walsh-150 ERA+, a staggering 422 IP

4-Napoleon Lajoie-Down year at the plate (135 OPS+. Poor guy, I know. It's tough being inner circle material) evened out by a career year in the field (+27 rField)

5-Sherry Magee-169 OPS+, plus 5 rField, 46 SB

6-Sam Crawford-160 OPS+, neutral fielder, 2nd in TB, 3rd in slugging, 1st in Runs.

7-Elmer Flick-153 OPS+, decent fielder, decent runner, 41 SB. Last great year in a HoF career.

8-Cy Young-Joss and Young are essentially identical. Young has 5 more IP. Joss has a slightly better ERA+ (136 to 129). Young has a few more K's. WHIP's are near duplicates. I'm putting Young higher due to a slightly better FIP and he originally rated higher in my system.

9-Addie Joss

10-Cy Young. Less IP (315), slightly worse ERA+ (123): Young/Joss lite, and only a few calories short.

11-Rube Waddell
12-Mclelland
13-Ed Karger
14-Orval Overall
15-Tommy Leach
   14. DL from MN Posted: August 17, 2015 at 05:36 PM (#5021002)
You can't vote for Cy Young twice. #10 looks like a vote for Christy Mathewson.
   15. toratoratora Posted: August 17, 2015 at 05:46 PM (#5021015)
Sorry-it is
   16. DL from MN Posted: August 19, 2015 at 03:59 PM (#5022320)
Balloting is closed

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