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Thursday, January 24, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1912 Ballot

For 1912 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 6 February 2019.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 5 Feb 2019.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: January 24, 2019 at 04:19 PM | 14 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: January 24, 2019 at 04:31 PM (#5808640)
2020 Ballot

1) Tris Speaker - surprised me but he's ahead of the Big Train. Best hitter, best fielder not named Honus.
2) Walter Johnson - best pitcher
3) Joe Jackson - almost hit as well as Speaker, not nearly the defense
4) Frank Baker
5) Honus Wagner - BBREF WAR underrates SS, outstanding with the glove
6) Ty Cobb - hit as well as Speaker but nowhere near as good in the field
7) Joe Williams - could be underrating him due to MLE
8) Ed Walsh
9) Eddie Collins
10) Smoky Joe Wood - Postseason work helps him beat out Dick Redding for the last slot

11-15) Dick Redding, Nap Rucker, Larry Gardner, Pete Hill, Heinie Zimmerman
16-21) Christy Mathewson, Chief Meyers, Bill Sweeney, Jesse Barber, Johnny Evers, John Henry Lloyd
   2. MrC. Posted: January 31, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5810750)
1912 Ballot

Reworked my pitcher numbers since the supplementary ballot, resulting in the changes in my ballot.

1. Walter Johnson 12.86 WARR
2. Tris Speaker 12.55 WARR
3. Joe Wood 12.41 WARR
4. Joe Jackson 12.19 WARR
5. Ed Walsh 11.39 WARR
6. Ty Cobb 10.06 WARR
7. Eddie Collins 9.06 WARR
8. Honus Wagner 8.58 WARR
9. Frank Baker 8.49 WARR
10. Joe Williams 7.90 WARR

Rest of the to 16
Heinie Zimmerman
Christy Mathewson
Dick Redding
Larry Gardner
Nap Rucker
John Henry Lloyd

   3. DL from MN Posted: February 04, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5811911)
Only 2 ballots and we end Wednesday. Please vote.
   4. DL from MN Posted: February 04, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5811955)
Chris Fluit Posted: January 25, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5808754)
1912 Ballot

1. Walter Johnson, P, Washington Senators: 243 ERA+ laps the field; 369 IP isn't too shabby either
2. Tris Speaker, CF, Boston Red Sox
3. Ty Cobb, CF, Detroit Tigers: a tight race between the two centerfielders but Speaker gets the edge in playing time and defense
4. Joe Jackson, RF, Cleveland Indians: 2nd to Cobb in OPS+, 2nd to Speaker in RC, +6 defense and 20% time in CF
5. Frank Baker, 3B, Philadelphia Athletics: 174 OPS+ while playing a premium defensive position (3B)
6. Heinie Zimmerman, 3B, Chicago Cubs: best player in the NL
7. Smokey Joe Williams, P, New York Lincoln Giants: 192 ERA+ in 95 IP over 12 documented games
8. Smoky Joe Wood, P, Boston Red Sox 177 ERA+ in 344 IP
9. Christy Mathewson, P, New York Giants: 161 ERA+ in 310 IP
10. Honus Wagner, SS, Pittsburgh Pirates: 3rd in NL OPS+ with 143, adds +20 fielding runs at SS

11. Eddie Walsh, P, Chicago White Sox: 149 ERA+ in astounding 393 IP
12. Pete Hill, CF, Chicago American Giants: 193 OPS+ and above average defense in CF
13. Jesse Barber, SS, Chicago American Giants: 166 OPS+ as a SS but only an average defender with an even 0 fielding
14. Nap Rucker, P, Brooklyn Dodgers: 151 ERA+ in 297 IP
15. Eddie Colins, 2B, Chicago White Sox

16. Jeff Tesreau, P, New York Giants: 173 ERA+ is tops in the NL
17. Bill Lindsay, P, Chicago American Giants: 198 ERA+ in 77 IP but gives back a lot of value by hitting for a 44 OPS+ as a OF
18. Pete Alexander, P, Philadelphia Phillies
19. Chief Meyers, C, New York Giants: 147 OPS+ is 2nd in NL
20. Rube Marquard, P, New York Giants
   5. progrockfan Posted: February 04, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5811972)
My 1912 ballot:

1. Eddie Collins. The complete package. #5 in OPS+ from the second base slot; ridiculous plate selectivity with 101 walks at 3.6 walks per strikeout; brilliant on the basepaths with 61 steals at an 83.6% rate; 1st in putouts, 1st in double plays, 2nd in assists, and astounding range that made him 2nd in fielding percentage despite leading in errors for the only time in his career; MLB’s best bunter and hit-and-run man.

2. Tris Speaker. Absolute killer defense in CF and a scorching bat make him a highly plausible #1, but lesser (though still excellent) plate discipline, below break-even steals, and a less vital (and somewhat less demanding) position in this pre-live ball season place him behind Collins by my lights. GIDP data for both would be invaluable but is unfortunately missing; based on secondary stats, I’m guessing Collins beats Speaker on this measure too.

3. Cyclone Joe Williams. My 1912 Most Meritorious Pitcher and Negro Leagues MVP. Johnson and Williams are close, and I acknowledge giving Williams a ‘Jamesian bump’ in placing him over Johnson, in acknowledgement of what I see as the immortal Cyclone’s greatest season.

4. Walter Johnson. The Train in one of his better seasons – and that’s saying something. (1913 will be quite a bit better though.)

5. John Henry Lloyd. The NgL’s best all-around player, and probably its top defender. Anecdotal evidence moves him above Cobb for me. I do tend to rate complete players higher than one- or two-talent specialists, however fiercely that single talent may burn.

6. Ty Cobb. The best pure hitter in baseball, but nowhere near Speaker’s defensive equal. Slightly below break-even on 95 steal attempts.

7. Pete Hill. The NgL’s top offensive force for 1912.

8. Shoeless Joe Jackson. A pure hitter with a decent arm. While I discount his career, I do take pre-1919 individual seasons at their face value. Cobb is clearly superior to my mind.

9. Ed Walsh. An innings eater par excellence, with real relief value to boot.

10. Smoky Joe Wood. Slightly above Walsh’s level per inning, but Walsh has the sheer volume to top him.

   6. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: February 04, 2019 at 09:19 PM (#5812112)
1912 MMP ballot:

1. Tris Speaker (36.58) - wouldn't be the in the top spot without postseason bonus.
2. Walter Johnson (34.86) - MMPitcher
3. Ed Walsh (26.89)
4. Joe Wood (26.27)
5. Joe Williams (25.48)- NgL MMP
6. Ty Cobb (25.29)
7. Home Run Baker (23.37)
8. Joe Jackson (22.73)
9. Eddie Collins (20.56)
10. Honus Wagner (19.13) - NL MMP

11-15. Dick Redding, Heinie Zimmerman, Christy Mathewson (NL MMPitcher), Nap Rucker, Pop Lloyd (NgL MMPosition Player)
   7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 05, 2019 at 08:04 AM (#5812171)
Official 1912 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a slight deduction for AL players):

1) Tris Speaker: Best ML player and center fielder - monster season!
2) Walter Johnson: Best ML pitcher.
3) Smoky Joe Wood - tells you how great Barney's season was since Wood's greatest season still trails his.
4) Ty Cobb: 31% worse than Spoke's season is still major.
5) Ed Walsh
6) Home Run Baker: Best ML third baseman.
7) Honus Wagner: Best NL player and ML shortstop.
8) Joe Jackson: Best ML right fielder.
9) Eddie Collins: Best ML second baseman.
10) Christy Mathewson: Best NL pitcher.

Best Nel player/pitcher: Smokey Joe Williams
   8. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:21 PM (#5812609)
1912 Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Pennant-contender

1. Walter Johnson
2. Tris Speaker--top player on best team
3. Ty Cobb--hit .400
4. Joe Jackson--top 4 are very close
5. Home Run Baker
6. Smoky Joe Wood
7. Eddie Collins
8. Honus Wagner--great year with bat and glove at SS despite closing in on age 40
9. Ed Walsh
10.Heinie Zimmerman

Top NL pitcher Christy Mathewson
   9. DL from MN Posted: February 06, 2019 at 11:26 AM (#5812721)
Tubbs - Chris will probably try to do a MMP for the Negro Leagues. Who is your top Negro Leaguer?
   10. DL from MN Posted: February 06, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5812829)
Haven't heard from Brock yet, which is strange
   11. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: February 06, 2019 at 03:17 PM (#5812860)
Tubbs - Chris will probably try to do a MMP for the Negro Leagues. Who is your top Negro Leaguer?

DL, my pick is Joe Williams
   12. DL from MN Posted: February 06, 2019 at 05:50 PM (#5812908)
Election is over, results soon
   13. bjhanke Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5813120)
Aaak! I've just had two weeks of a respiratory virus, and so haven't voted. But I finally slept through it. So, even if you don't count it, here's my vote:

1. Tris Speaker
2. Walter Johnson
3. Joe Wood
4. Ed Walsh
5. Frank "Home Run" Baker
6. Ty Cobb
7. Shoeless Joe Jackson
8. Eddie Collins
9. Honus Wagner
10. Pop Lloyd
   14. DL from MN Posted: February 07, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5813154)
It doesn't change the first 5 results so I'll count it and update the results.

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