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Thursday, April 04, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1915 Discussion

The Boston Red Sox beat the Philadelphia Phillies in 1915 which means Boston topped Philly in consecutive seasons with different teams.

The New York Lincoln Stars and Chicago American Giants met in Chicago for a championship series. After four wins apiece the final game of the series was called after four innings with the Lincoln Stars ahead 1-0. Rube Foster of the Chicago American Giants declared the series a tie. The Lincoln Stars claimed a series victory 5 games to 4.

The Chicago Whales edged the St. Louis Terriers in the final Federal League season.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Ty Cobb			51.5		9.5
Eddie Collins		39.3		9.4
Tris Speaker		38.6		7.1
Gavy Cravath		33.0		7.0
Larry Doyle		31.6		4.5
Bobby Veach		30.3		4.9
Sam Crawford		27.5		4.0
Honus Wagner		23.2		5.6
Heinie Groh		24.6		5.6
Jack Fournier		26.8		5.9
Sherry Magee		25.8		4.8
Fred Luderus		25.3		5.7
Jake Daubert		25.3		3.7
Burt Shotton		25.1		4.6
Frank Snyder		21.9		5.3
Bill Hinchman		24.3		4.6
Buck Herzog		20.6		5.2
Ossie Vitt		23.6		4.5
Rabbit Maranville	20.7		3.7
Ray Chapman		17.5		4.3
Vic Saier		23.2		3.8
Red Smith		22.8		4.1
Dave Bancroft		23.9		4.2
Donie Bush		22.2		3.8
Zack Wheat		23.7		2.7
Clyde Milan		23.6		3.1
George Burns		23.4		1.8
Del Pratt		21.5		4.7

Cristobal Torriente	15.3		2.2 (plus Cuban League)
Ben Taylor		14.0		2.6
John Henry Lloyd	12.6		3.3
Pete Hill		12.2		2.7
Louis Santop		5.0		0.9
George Shively		14.0		3.0
Hurley McNair		11.0		2.3
Bingo DeMoss		10.4		2.3
Oscar Charleston	10.2		1.0
Russell Powell		9.8		1.0
Spots Poles		5.5		1.3
Todd Allen		8.2		2.6

Benny Kauff		33.8		6.8


Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Pete Alexander		41.9		10.8		
Walter Johnson		38.3		12.4
Fred Toney		23.1		7.3
Jeff Tesreau		20.9		5.9
Guy Morton		20.4		6.4
Jeff Pfeffer		25.8		6.3
Al Mamuax		20.8		5.7
Ray Caldwell		22.7		5.7
Carl Weilman		19.7		5.8
Joe Wood		19.9		5.6
Dick Rudolph		22.2		3.9
Erskine Mayer		22.0		4.0
Pat Ragan		17.6		4.1
Ray Fisher		21.1		4.3
Rube Foster (AL)	24.3		5.5
Ernie Shore		23.4		4.9
Dutch Leonard		17.3		4.4
Jim Scott		24.2		5.6
Hooks Dauss		23.5		5.7
Babe Ruth		22.3		4.2

Dizzy Dismukes		17.4		5.7
Dick Redding		13.0		3.0
Joe Williams		6.9		1.5
Frank Wickware		7.8		0.6
Dicta Johnson		12.4		3.1
Dick Whitworth		9.2		1.1

Dave Davenport		34.9		7.5
DL from MN Posted: April 04, 2019 at 02:39 PM | 19 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: April 04, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5828630)
1915 Chalek MLEs
Player Age Lg Pos   PA Rbat Rbaser Rfield  Rpos RAA   WAA  Rrep RAR   WAR
========================================================================
Torriente 21 NL  CF  470   32    0       0   - 3    30   3.5   15   44   5.3
BTaylor  26 NL  1B  610   27    0       4   - 4   27   3.2   19   46   5.6
Lloyd  31 NL SS    570   22    0    0     2     8   33   3.9   18   51   6.1
PHill  32 NL CF   570   16    0    0     2    -3   15   1.8   18   33   4.0
Santop  26 NL  C  470   16    0       0    7   23   2.7   15   38   4.6
Charleston  18 NL  CF   10    0    0       0     0    0   0.0    0    0   0.1
Pettus  30 NL 1B    590   18    0    0     6   - 4   21   2.5   18   39   4.8
Chacon  26 NL SS    570    0    0      2     8   11   1.3   18   28   3.5
Earle  31  NL RF   590   20    1      5     - 7    18   2.2   18   37   4.5
Wallace  32 NL  SS  600     7    0      7    9    22   2.7   19   41   5.0
Poles  27 NL  CF  580   10    1    0     3   - 3    11   1.3   20   30   3.7
McNair  26 NL  RF  580   23    0     1     - 7   18   2.1   18   36   4.4


                 PITCHING          |  BATTING    |  TOTAL
Player  AGE   IP  RAA   WAA   WAR  |  PA    WAR  |   WAR
========================================================

Williams   29  250   18   2.3   4.7  |   83   0.4  |   5.1
Redding   25  300   12   1.5   4.4  |  100   0.1  |   4.5
Rogan   21  200   18   2.3   4.2  |   67   0.6  |   4.8
Mendez    30   50    2   0.3   0.7  |   17   0.0  |    0.8
Junco   25  220    7   0.8   2.9  |   73  -0.4  |   2.5 
Pedroso   28  300   13   1.6   4.5  |  100   0.6  |   5.1 
Padron   22  220   14   1.7   3.8  |   73  -0.4  |   3.4
Whitworth   19  170  - 3  -0.3   1.3  |   57   0.0  |   1.3



   2. DL from MN Posted: April 04, 2019 at 03:40 PM (#5828648)
1915 Prelim

1) Ty Cobb - best bat by a lot, great baserunning
2) Eddie Collins - great glovework
3) Pete Alexander - best P
4) Gavy Cravath - great glove rating this season
5) Walter Johnson - best AL pitcher
6) Tris Speaker - slick fielder but bat was a down year
7) Honus Wagner - best SS
8) Heinie Groh - best 3B
9) Jack Fournier - best 1B
10) Dizzy Dismukes - best NGL pitcher

11-15) Fred Toney, John Henry Lloyd, Fred Luderus, Frank Snyder, Ben Taylor
16-21) Cristobal Torriente, Jeff Tesreau, Dick Redding, Guy Morton, Bill Hinchman, Joe Williams
   3. DL from MN Posted: April 04, 2019 at 06:26 PM (#5828710)
A note that Rogan's MLE is basically war credit. He played some for the Wreckers but didn't start until July of 1915.
   4. bjhanke Posted: April 05, 2019 at 04:54 AM (#5828806)
These years are weird times. I have a couple of comments to make, because I actually did some research. Please note that I don't expect anyone to AGREE with me. But these things are important in how I think about certain players active in 1915.

1) By the time I've adjusted for the quality of play in the Federal League, Benny Kauff collapses to something nowhere near a MMP ballot.

2) Rube Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, and Pop Lloyd all had their primes at this time. Dick Redding and Oscar Charleston were still young players not playing at what would become their peaks. I'll be voting for them when that happens.

3) This one may be controversial, but I've done some research. To get to the point, I would regard a vote for Gavvy Cravath as a vote for the Baker Bowl, which was not a player. There is very little to Cravath's career other than the ballpark. His home/road homer splits, for his MLB career, reduce to 3.85 to 1. This is the largest ratio I have ever seen for a player who played 500 games (I do not claim to have found everybody). The SECOND-highest ratio is Fred Luderus, 3-1 exactly. How did this happen? Well, the Baker Bowl had an absurdly small Right Field territory, and possibly the strongest park effects in history for right-field-fly-ball hitters. That immediately includes Luderus, a lefty fly ball hitter. But Cravath was a righty. How did this happen to HIM? I think that I may have found the key in a comment upon Sherry Magee in the Bill James New Historical. Cravath is quoted there as saying the Magee would have much more power if he gripped the bat tightly, allowing no looseness at all, saying specifically that Magee would hit more road homers if he did this. So, having baseball and stick fighting experience, I took a bat out and tried to swing it with my hands gripping the handle hard. The effect is astonishing. First, you CANNOT pull the ball, because your wrists won't roll, because you are gripping the bat so hard. The swing you end up with drops instantly as soon as you start, and then, at the point where the wrists would roll, you can't get the head of the bat any further forward, so you end up with an upswing the Launch Angle people would probably idolize. But, remember, it's fly balls to the opposite field. Can after can of corn. Some of them, this being the Baker Bowl, will settle over the fence, giving Cravath between 6 and 12 homers a year. Which regularly led the league. But it was all at home. Cravath actually won the NL homer crown - twice - without hitting even one single homer on the road. He had no real power. He just had the most extreme ballpark of the 20th century, except maybe for Coors. Neither Cravath nor Luderus belongs anywhere near a MMP ballot. However, if we ever get into the Most Meritorious Ballparks, I'm voting for Baker Bowl. But not as a player under the name Gavvy Cravath. I do hope the Gavvy Cravath fans won't lynch me for this, but I have done the best research I could.
   5. DL from MN Posted: April 05, 2019 at 11:11 AM (#5828866)
1) By the time I've adjusted for the quality of play in the Federal League, Benny Kauff collapses to something nowhere near a MMP ballot.


Agreed. Kauff and Davenport were average professional players who look great because the Federal League was so lousy.

2) Rube Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, and Pop Lloyd all had their primes at this time. Dick Redding and Oscar Charleston were still young players not playing at what would become their peaks. I'll be voting for them when that happens.


Foster at 36 is past his prime and 25 year old Redding is just entering his. Hell, Foster died in 1930. 19 year old Charleston is still pretty young but Torriente at 21 is old enough to believe he is an impact player. The best players tend to be very good at a young age.

On Gavy Cravath - if it's just the ballpark then why didn't everyone do it? Cravath found a way to help his team win a pennant by exploiting the Baker Bowl. Good find on the comments about gripping the bat tightly. That is a terrible idea.
   6. alilisd Posted: April 05, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5828980)
There is very little to Cravath's career other than the ballpark.


There's actually nearly 1,000 games of PCL play to his career. In each of those five seasons he finished second in the league in HR (yes, partly that's due to playing time, but there were plenty of other full time players who he out homered), and on a ratio basis he was always in the top five (for players with at least 100 games played) in slugging. In 1903 he had as many HR as the next 2 highest players on his team in 210 fewer AB's (PA's not being available on B-R). 1n 1904 he had 2 more HR than the ENTIRE rest of the team. In 1905 he had as many HR as the next 2 highest player on his team in 666 fewer AB's. In 1906 he had as many HR as the next 4 highest player on his team in 797 fewer AB's. In 1907 he was out homered by Walter Carlisle in comparable AB's, but had twice as many as the next player on the team, again in comparable AB's; he outslugged both of them by over 40 points of SLG.

There's also about 450 games in the American Association. He was top 10 in HR, and second in SLG in his first season there, led the league in both in his second season, and in his third season he had over twice as many HR as the second highest total in the league (actually had 35 fewer AB's than Ham Hyatt), and led in SLG by 81 points! The next best SLG by anyone with even half as many AB's as Cravath was .500 to Gavvy's .637, Ham Hyatt who is the next highest SLG in comparable playing time was at just .481!

Cravath also went back to the PCL at 40 years of age and finished second in HR in 1921, this time for Salt Lake rather than Los Angeles where he had played at the start of his career. His total of 18 was amassed in only 341 AB's, fewer than half the AB's of the leader who had 22 HR, and fewer than half the AB's of the man who finished third with 17 HR, both of whom were in their 20's!

I doubt Cravath was so lucky as to have played over 1,500 minor league games while always having a home park which allowed him to outslug and out homer the rest of his league and his teammates!

I think that I may have found the key in a comment upon Sherry Magee in the Bill James New Historical. Cravath is quoted there as saying the Magee would have much more power if he gripped the bat tightly, allowing no looseness at all, saying specifically that Magee would hit more road homers if he did this. So, having baseball and stick fighting experience, I took a bat out and tried to swing it with my hands gripping the handle hard. The effect is astonishing. First, you CANNOT pull the ball, because your wrists won't roll, because you are gripping the bat so hard.


This is highly speculative. What do people know about batting styles during the deadball era? Would players have gripped the bat very lightly as they were going for bat control, and slapping at it for base hits? Couldn't Cravath have simply been arguing for taking a firmer grip, and a harder swing? We are talking about the latter period of the era after all. He arrived in Philadelphia in 1912, and HR totals in the NL had already started to shoot up in 1910 and 1911. Ruth would debut two years later, and bring the liveball era and upper cut swing fully into vogue a few more years after that. It seems this is just as reasonable an explanation of what Cravath is advocating by gripping the bat tightly as your theory he was gripping it so tightly he couldn't even execute a wrist roll. In fact, it's probably a more reasonable explanation as how would hitting, "Can after can of corn..." help Magee hit more ROAD home runs?

But it was all at home. Cravath actually won the NL homer crown - twice - without hitting even one single homer on the road. He had no real power.


I believe it's actually more complicated than this. We can see by his minor league record that he did in fact have real power, and a LOT of it. There's no denying he has some extreme splits in the Baker Bowl, but it is not as entirely straightforward as you make out here. His first season he hit 6 at home and 5 away, no split at all really. He actually slugged higher on the road thanks to more doubles, and all nine triples coming on the road. The next season it is more extreme with 14 HR at home to 5 on the road, but he has 24 combined 2B and 3B both at home and away, with slightly more TB on the road thanks to a higher number of 3B. But his BA is .378 to .302 thanks to a much higher BABIP at home, virtually identical BB and K's at home and away and in terms of PA's, too. So, yes, he hit a lot more HR at home, but there was something else going on as well.

1914 is very extreme, and one of the seasons you mentioned where he led the league but hit no HR on the road. He appears to have gone all in on a HR or nothing approach, at least at home. BA was .300/.295 Home/Away, K's the same albeit in 55 fewer road PA's, more BB at home, but BABIP was 60 points higher on the road! It seems he could have been trying to tailor his approach not only to his home park by swinging for the fences there, but also adapting to a less conducive road environment for HR by putting the ball in play more effectively.

1915 brings a more balanced season, but with the HR extreme still in place as he hit 19 at home to 5 away. Still his playing time is nearly equal with only 15 more PA's on the road, BA nearly identical, more 2B and 3B combined on the road, and BABIP 37 points higher on the road. It certainly seems as if he is taking a different hitting approach at home than on the road.

1916, and 1917 he still has the extreme HR splits, but his road performance is beginning to decline, and is generally much poorer than his home performance, but this should be expected given he's now 35 and 36. 1918 he has one of those odd seasons of no HR on the road despite leading the league. It also shows his road performance continuing to be poor, while his home performance, despite the HR, is beginning to lag as well. 1919 also has an extreme HR split, but apparently being a part time player, only 54 starts and 256 PA's, allowed him to stay fresh and he strongly rebounded in all his rate stats, but definitely showed strong home/road splits with noticeably stronger performance at home.

Overall there's no denying he had a strong home/road split. There's no denying he took great advantage of the Baker Bowl, particularly from a HR perspective, but I don't believe it is at all reasonable to say he had no real power. He clearly, as shown by both his minor league record, and his extra base hit power on the road, did have considerable power throughout his career. However, it also appears he may have been savvy enough, and talented enough, to do a bit of tailoring his approach to suit his home park while also using an approach on the road which was different than his approach at home and better suited to a more moderate ballpark than the Baker Bowl.
   7. DL from MN Posted: April 05, 2019 at 03:03 PM (#5828985)
Part of Cravath's minor league time was as a Minneapolis Miller. Nicollet Park also had a short porch in RF.
   8. alilisd Posted: April 05, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5829025)
Part of Cravath's minor league time was as a Minneapolis Miller. Nicollet Park also had a short porch in RF.


And still no one else on his team was able to make any use of it, IF in fact he did.

There's also about 450 games in the American Association. He was top 10 in HR, and second in SLG in his first season there, led the league in both in his second season, and in his third season he had over twice as many HR as the second highest total in the league (actually had 35 fewer AB's than Ham Hyatt), and led in SLG by 81 points! The next best SLG by anyone with even half as many AB's as Cravath was .500 to Gavvy's .637, Ham Hyatt who is the next highest SLG in comparable playing time was at just .481!
   9. alilisd Posted: April 05, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5829059)
More on Cravath in Minneapolis. For players with at least 300 AB's in 1909 he was tied with 2 other players for 13th in 2B, only 2 of the 12 players in front of him had at least 540 AB's to Cravath's 413 (William James was 1 of the players he was tied with and he had only 408 AB's; James is worthy of a SABR biography as he continually crushed American Association pitching, but never made it to MLB); he was tied with 7 other players for 12th in triples, only 3 of the 11 players in front of him had fewer than 519 AB's (including Williams who led the league with 16 triples, and he was a catcher!); he was tied with 3 other players for third in HR, although in this instance a number of the other players he was tied with or who were in front of him also had very low AB's (including Williams, again, who led the league!). Cravath had the second highest BA.

Using 300 AB's as the playing time cutoff again, in 1910 he led the league in 2B, tied with 2 other players for second in triples, and led in HR, BA, and SLG. In 1911 he did the same, led in 2B, tied with 2 others for second in triples, and led in HR, BA, and SLG. He may, or may not, have taken advantage of a short RF porch, but he was clearly crushing 2B, 3B, and hitting for high average in addition to hitting a LOT of HR.
   10. MrC. Posted: April 08, 2019 at 05:59 PM (#5829746)
DL and /or Brock

Although I have never paid much attention to the Federal league, i do respect both of your opinions about the level of play in the league. Both of you talked about quality of play adjustments that you use in your evaluations. I would appreciate it if you would give me an idea of the amount of adjustment you feel is appropriate. This information would certainly be valuable in helping to make sense of where the federal league players fit in my evaluation system.

Thanks in advance.
   11. DL from MN Posted: April 09, 2019 at 12:28 AM (#5829820)
The easiest way to approach the Federal League is to look at how the top players performed when they were in the American or National League. I don't have an overall adjustment but 20% discount is reasonable on average and there may be a standard deviation adjustment on top of it.
   12. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5833298)
1915 World Series
Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB E WPA
Rube Foster 2 8 0 4 1 0 0 1 0 2 .500 .500 .625 1.125 0 0 0.31
Tris Speaker 5 17 2 5 0 1 0 0 4 1 .294 .429 .412 .840 0 0 0.03

Pete Alexander 2 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .200 .200 .200 .400 0 0 -0.01
Dave Bancroft 5 17 2 5 0 0 0 1 2 2 .294 .368 .294 .663 0 1 -0.03
Gavvy Cravath 5 16 2 2 1 1 0 1 2 6 .125 .222 .313 .535 0 0 -0.20
Fred Luderus 5 16 1 7 2 0 1 6 1 4 .438 .500 .750 1.250 0 1 0.48

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA
Rube Foster 2 2 2.00 2 0 0 2 18.0 12 5 4 2 13 0.778 0.53
Dutch Leonard 1 1 1.00 1 0 0 1 9.0 3 1 1 0 6 0.333 0.46
Ernie Shore 2 2 2.12 1 1 0 2 17.0 12 4 4 8 6 1.176 0.33

Pete Alexander 2 2 1.53 1 1 0 2 17.2 14 3 3 4 10 1.019 0.26
   13. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5833319)
Probably more than fair use allows but I'll post a link too:



1915 New York Lincoln Stars vs Chicago American Giants

The New York Lincoln Stars were considered the “Colored Champions of the East” in 1915. The Lincoln Stars were led by the hitting of John Henry “Pop” Lloyd (.398), Louis Santop (.318), Bill Pierce (.298), Bill Pettus (.296) and Spottswood Poles (.284). Dick “Cannonball” Redding was the ace of the Lincoln Stars pitching staff. In games against top level competition, Redding posted a 24-7 won-loss record during the regular season. Doc Sykes, Frank Harvey, Juan Padrone and Lee Wade rounded out the Lincoln Stars pitching staff.

The “Colored Champions of the West” for 1915 were the Chicago American Giants. The American Giants were owned and managed by Rube Foster. Chicago’s top hitters for the 1915 season were Jude Gans (.328), Hurley Mc Nair (.311) and Pete Hill (.255). The starting pitching rotation for the American Giants included Dick Whitworth, Frank “The Red Ant” Wickware, Bill Gatewood and Tom Johnson.

The Lincoln Stars and American Giants met in Chicago, Illinois for a championship series in late July through mid August of 1915. Going into the last game of the series, the two teams were tied with four wins each. The final game of the series was called after four innings with the Lincoln Stars leading by one run. The final game was never completed or re-played. Rube Foster, the owner and manager of the Chicago American Giants, declared the series a tie. The Lincoln Stars claimed the series victory by winning five games to Chicago’s four wins.

Box scores and line scores have been found for eight of the games played in the series.

Date Winning Team Score Winning Pitcher Losing Pitcher

July 31st Chicago American Giants 11-3 Frank Wickware Frank Harvey
Aug 1st Lincoln Stars 11-3 Dick Redding Tom Johnson
Aug 2nd Chicago American Giants 2-1 Tom Johnson Lee Wade
Aug 7th Chicago American Giants 4-3 Dick Whitworth Dick Redding
Aug 8th Lincoln Stars 13-0 Dick Redding Frank Wickware
Aug 9th Lincoln Stars 11-4 Lee Wade Rube Foster
Aug 10th Chicago American Giants 2-1 Frank Wickware Doc Sykes
Aug 10th Lincoln Stars 1-0 Frank Harvey Frank Wickware

To further support their claim as “World’s Champions” the Lincoln Stars followed up their victory over Chicago with a series against the Indianapolis ABC’s who were considered the second best team in the West during the 1915 season. New York defeated Indianapolis four games to two to win the series.

“Colored Champions of the World” – New York Lincoln Stars
   14. bjhanke Posted: April 21, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5833942)
DL - I just noticed that the last Wednesday in April is actually THIS Wednesday, the 24th. April ends on a Tuesday. So the next Wednesday would actually be May 1. I vote for May 1 for the voting deadline, because there may well be people out there who don't think the the ballot's due in half a week from now, and will miss the deadline if it's April 24.
   15. DL from MN Posted: April 22, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5834110)
Voting is always the first Wednesday of the month, not the last one.
   16. DL from MN Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:36 AM (#5836291)
I deleted Gavy Cravath and Fred Luderus for being products of the Baker Bowl.


Not a fan of declining to consider any offensive players from the NL championship team.

   17. Chris Fluit Posted: April 30, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5836855)
1915 Prelim Ballot

1. Pete Alexander, P, Philadelphia Phillies: dominant season, with 225 ERA+ and 376 IP to lead MLB in both categories
2. Ty Cobb, CF, Detroit Tigers: AL leading 185 OPS+ and 138 RC with +8 baserunning
3. Walter Johnson, P, Washington Senators: 191 ERA+ and 336 IP lead the AL
4. Eddie Collins, 2B, Chicago White Sox: 3rd in AL with 165 OPS+ while adding +12 with the glove
5. Gavvy Cravath, RF, Philadelphia Phillies: 170 OPS+ and 101 RC lead the NL
6. Larry Doyle, 2B, New York Giants: 145 OPS+ from a 2B more than makes up for -8 fielding
7. Jim Scott, P, Chicago White Sox: solid combo of ERA+ (4th in AL) and IP (6th)
8. Tris Speaker, CF, Boston Red Sox: 151 OPS+ with +10 fielding
9. John Henry Lloyd, SS, New York Lincoln Stars: 160 OPS+ while playing above average D at SS (+0.6 WAR)
10. Dick Rudolph, P, Boston Braves: WAR doesn't care for him but I'm impressed with 341 IP at a 114 ERA+

11. Frank Snyder, C, St. Louis Cardinals: a catcher who hits for a 125 OPS+ in the depths of the deadball era
12. Jack Fournier, 1B, Chicago White Sox: 2nd in AL OPS+ with 172
13. Dizzy Dismukes, P, Indianapolis ABCs: 254 ERA+ in 188 IP
14. Stan Coveleski, P, Detroit Tigers: another high IP (312) pitcher
15. Jeff Pfeffer, P, Brookyn Robins: 134 ERA+ is 3rd in NL
   18. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:57 PM (#5837009)
I'm having the issue accessing the ballot thread, so could someone please transfer my ballot:

1. Ty Cobb (29.10)
2. Pete Alexander (26.69) - NL MMP
3. Eddie Collins (24.68)
4. Walter Johnson (24.48) - AL MMPitcher
5. Tris Speaker (18.37)
6. Gavvy Cravath (17.07) - NL MMPosition Player
7. Jack Fournier (15.54)
8. John Henry Lloyd (15.44) - NgL MMP
9. Cristobal Torriente (14.21)
10. Fred Toney (12.55)

Joe Williams - NgL MMPitcher
   19. Chris Fluit Posted: May 01, 2019 at 04:53 PM (#5837351)
I'm going to flip Rudolph and Snyder for my final. if I'm going out on a limb, I'd rather do it for the catcher.

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