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Friday, May 03, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1916 Discussion

The Red Sox defeated the Brooklyn Robins in the World Series four games to one.

The Indianapolis ABC’s defeated the Chicago American Giants for the Colored Champion of the West. The Lincoln Stars were probably the best team in the East.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Tris Speaker		40.7		8.6
Ty Cobb			42.4		8.0
Zack Wheat		30.9		6.0
Eddie Collins		31.6		7.0
Joe Jackson		34.0		7.0
Art Fletcher		24.2		6.3
Heinie Groh		23.5		5.3
Max Carey		27.1		5.1
George Sisler 		24.4		5.1 (includes pitching)
Bobby Veach		27.6		5.0
Rabbit Maranville	27.6		5.3
Burt Shotton		26.5		4.8
Hal Chase		21.6		4.2
Del Pratt		23.0		4.8
Larry Doyle		20.8		3.9
Cy Williams		19.2		4.1
Jake Daubert		20.8		4.1
Rogers Hornsby		27.3		4.9
Buck Herzog		20.2		3.4
Bill Hinchman		25.0		4.2
Honus Wagner		16.9		2.6
Gavy Cravath		24.3		3.5
Benny Kauff		27.0		4.0
Amos Strunk		22.5		5.6
Happy Felsch		24.1		4.2
Ossie Vitt		20.7		3.3
Harry Hooper		26.4		4.0
Dave Robertson		23.7		4.1
Dave Bancroft		19.2		3.2
Ed Konetchy		24.8		3.7
Heinie Zimmerman	18.9		3.9
George Burns		25.3		3.2
Larry Gardner		26.0		4.7
Mike Mowrey		17.3		2.7
Roger Peckinpaugh	20.7		4.4
Wally Pipp		19.7		4.2
Frank Baker		16.9		3.6
Wally Schang		12.5		3.6
Ivey Wingo		8.1		3.5
Ray Schalk		16.9		3.2
Hank Gowdy		16.3		3.2
Dode Paskert		26.3		3.3

Cristobal Torriente	16.3		2.2
Ben Taylor		5.2		0.6
John Henry Lloyd	17.4		4.2
Pete Hill		16.0		3.6
Louis Santop		8.2		2.5
Eustaquio Pedroso	12.2		2.5
Candy Jim Taylor	7.3		1.9

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Pete Alexander		43.4		12.0
Walter Johnson		34.4		10.8
Babe Ruth		35.9		10.4
Jeff Pfeffer		30.7		7.3
Hippo Vaughn		21.8		5.8
Joe Bush		7.6		5.0
Bob Shawkey		26.1		6.3
Wilbur Cooper		18.3		5.9
Harry Coveleski		25.8		7.0
Harry Harper		18.3		5.0
Slim Sallee		14.0		3.3
Carl Mays		21.6		5.4
Dick Rudolph		21.8		3.9
Eppa Rixey		24.8		4.3
Dutch Leonard		22.1		5.3
Rube Marquard		19.8		4.4
Carl Weilman		19.2		4.8
Fred Toney		18.4		3.6

Joe Williams		8.6		2.9
Dick Redding		7.7		2.1
Dizzy Dismukes		8.1		0.5
Frank Wickware		11.6		1.5
Juan Padron		19.3		9.4
DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2019 at 01:54 PM | 7 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2019 at 02:04 PM (#5837968)
1916 Prelim

1) Pete Alexander - sustained excellence with almost 400 innings
2) Tris Speaker - best bat
3) Joe Williams - great rate stats this season, good bat too
4) Ty Cobb
5) Walter Johnson
6) Louis Santop - best rate production for hitting in his career is 1916-1918 (ages 27-29). Best catcher by a huge margin.
7) Babe Ruth - expect this won't be his only time on my ballot
8) Zack Wheat
9) Heinie Groh - good glove for Wheat and Groh
10) Eddie Collins

11-15) Joe Jackson, Juan Padron, Art Fletcher, John Henry Lloyd, Cristobal Torriente
16-21) Max Carey, Dick Redding, Jeff Pfeffer, Bobby Veach, George Sisler, Rabbit Maranville
   2. DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5837999)
Eric C MLE's for 1916

Moore and Rogan are with the Wreckers at this time

Player Age Lg Pos  PA  Rbat Rbaser Rfield Rpos  RAA   WAA  Rrep RAR   WAR
=========================================================================
Lloyd  32 NL SS    600   23    0    0     2     9   34   4.2   19   53   6.6
Torriente  22 NL  CF  580   35    1       0   - 3    32   3.9   18   50   6.3
Santop  27 NL  C  480   26    0       0    7   33   4.0   15   48   5.9
Rogan  22 NL  CF  560   31    1       4   - 7   28   3.5   17   46   5.8
Pettus  31 NL 1B    590   24    0    0     6   - 4   27   3.3   18   45   5.7
Earle  32  NL CF   580   24    1      0     - 3    21   2.6   18   39   4.9
B Taylor  27 NL  1B  610   18    0       4   - 4   18   2.2   19   37   4.7
Hall  27  NL LF   540   28    0     -1    -6    21   2.5   17   37   4.7
McNair  27 NL  CF  580   22    0     0     - 3   19   2.3   18   37   4.6
Hill  33 NL CF   570   17    0    0     2    -3   17   2.1   18   34   4.3
Wiley 29  NL  C  370   17    0       0     5   22   2.7  13   35   4.3
Poles  28 NL  CF  570    7    1    0     3   - 3     8   1.0   19   27   3.5
Chacon  27 NL SS    530  - 2    0      2     8    9   1.1   17   25   3.2
Lyons  26 NL  LF   540   10     1     0     2    - 6     7   0.9   17   24   3.0
Pierce  26 NL  1B    490   10   -1       3   - 4    9   1.1   15   24   3.0
Petway 30  NL  C  410  - 6    0       1     6    1   0.1  14   15   1.9
Charleston  19 NL  CF  200    6    1     - 1   - 1    5   0.6    6   11   1.4
D Moore  20 NL  SS  110    5    0       2    2    9   1.1    3   12   1.5

               PITCHING          |  BATTING    |  TOTAL
PITCHER  AGE   IP  RAA   WAA   WAR  |  PA    WAR  |   WAR
========================================================
Williams   30  250   31   4.2   6.5  |   83   0.4  |   6.9
Padron   23  310   26   3.5   6.4  |  103  -0.5  |   6.0
Donaldson   25  310   18   2.4   5.3  |  103   0.4  |   5.7
Redding   26  310   18   2.4   5.3  |  103   0.2  |   5.5
Rogan   22  210   20   2.6   4.6  |   70   0.7  |   5.2 
Junco   26  250    8   1.1   3.4  |   83  -0.4  |   3.0
Pedroso   29  250    1   0.1   2.5  |   83   0.5  |   3.0 
Ball   38  150    3   0.4   1.8  |   50   0.1  |   1.9
   3. DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2019 at 02:49 PM (#5838011)
I think a 250 inning projection for Williams is far too low.
   4. DL from MN Posted: May 06, 2019 at 10:13 AM (#5838710)
From this terrific source: http://www.cnlbr.org/Portals/0/RL/Colored Championship Series (1900-1919).pdf

1916 Chicago American Giants vs Indianapolis ABC’s

In October of 1916 the Chicago American Giants met the Indianapolis ABC’s for the “Colored Championship of the West.” Rube Foster’s Chicago American Giants team was led by the hitting of John Henry “Pop” Lloyd, Preston “Pete” Hill, Leroy Grant, Pete Duncan and Brodie Francis. Tom Johnson, Dick Whitworth and Frank “Red Ant” Wickware were the top pitchers for Chicago.

C. I. Taylor fielded a strong team for the Indianapolis ABC’s. Ben Taylor (first base), Bingo De Moss (second base), Mortie Clark (shortstop), Candy Jim Taylor (third base), Oscar Charleston (outfield) and Dave Malarcher were the top offensive stars of Indianapolis. Dizzy Dismukes was the ace of the pitching staff for the ABC’s.

The first four games of the series were played in Indianapolis, giving the ABC’s a real home team advantage from the outset. Chicago took game one by a score of 5-3 on a winning base hit by Pete Hill. The Indianapolis ABC’s shut out the Chicago American Giants in games two and three by identical scores of 1-0 in both contests. Indianapolis continued to dominate Chicago and won game four by a score of 8-2 behind the pitching of Dizzy Dismukes. Moving the series to Chicago didn’t help the American Giants as they were blown out of game five by a score of 12-8. Behind the brilliant pitching of Dizzy Dismukes who won all three of the games he started, the Indianapolis ABC’s easily defeated the Chicago American Giants four games to one to claim the bragging rights of the best colored baseball team in the West.

No championship series between teams from the East and West was played in 1916.
   5. MrC. Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:37 PM (#5844275)
2016 Preliminary ballot

1. Walter Johnson 11.63 WARR
2. Tris Speaker 9.30 WARR
3. Ty Cobb 8.75 WARR
4. Reb Russell 8.55 WARR
5. Babe Ruth 8.53 WARR Excellent pitching performance but with his ability as a hitter, he probably should become a position player some day .
6. Harry Coveleski 7.72 WARR
7. Art Fletcher 7.36 His fielding skills allowed him to rise to the top of a rather poor hitting NL position player group
8. Pete Alexander 7.22 WARR
9. Max Carey 6.71 WARR
10. Burt Shotton 6.44 WARR

Rest of the top 15
Joe Williams
Bobby Veach
John Henry Lloyd
Bob Shawkey
Zack Wheat

Comment: The obvious outlier in this ballot is Reb Russell. i have been using Michael Humphreys' DIPS formula to calculate RAA for the pitchers in these years to try to mitigate the influence of the poorer defenses of pitcher evaluation. for the most part, this method has given results which place the best pitchers in approx the same order as other methods. However, with Russell, the DIPS method efected his placement more the most pitchers.

Also baseball reference uses a 3 year park factor number (which is 98 for the White Sox); whereas I believe that a one year park factor is more appropriate for this project (which is 107 for the White Sox). This fact also had a positive effect on his placement.


   6. DL from MN Posted: May 23, 2019 at 05:53 PM (#5845169)
1916 World Series
Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB E WPA
Larry Gardner 5 17 2 3 0 0 2 6 0 2 .176 .176 .529 .706 0 2 0.05
Harry Hooper 5 21 6 7 1 1 0 1 3 1 .333 .417 .476 .893 1 0 -0.22

Jake Daubert 4 17 1 3 0 1 0 0 2 3 .176 .263 .294 .557 0 0 -0.37
Mike Mowrey 5 17 2 3 0 0 0 1 3 2 .176 .300 .176 .476 0 2 -0.01
Zack Wheat 5 19 2 4 0 1 0 1 2 2 .211 .286 .316 .602 1 1 -0.01

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA
Dutch Leonard 1 1 1.00 1 0 0 1 9.0 5 2 1 4 3 1.000 0.11
Carl Mays 2 1 6.75 0 1 1 0 5.1 8 4 4 3 2 2.063 -0.06
Babe Ruth 1 1 0.64 1 0 0 1 14.0 6 1 1 3 4 0.643 1.08

Rube Marquard 2 2 5.73 0 2 0 0 11.0 12 9 7 6 9 1.636 -0.51
Jeff Pfeffer 3 1 1.69 0 1 1 0 10.2 7 5 2 4 5 1.031 0.03


   7. DL from MN Posted: June 20, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5854190)
Best pitching seasons in the history of the MMP project by my point score

1913 Walter Johnson 22.6
1985 Gooden 21.5
1995 Maddux 21.4
1972 Carlton 21.2
1994 Maddux 20.6
1997 Clemens 19.9
1968 Gibson 19.5
2000 P Martinez 19.5
2009 Greinke 19.1
1902 Waddell 19.1
1912 W Johnson 19.1
1944 Trout 19.0
1945 Newhouser 18.8
1963 Koufax 18.7
1946 Feller 18.6
1972 Seaver 18.3
2004 Santana 18.2
1971 Seaver 18.0
1999 P Martinez 18.0
1971 Wood 17.9
2015 Greinke 17.9
1901 Young 17.8
1916 Alexander 17.8
1978 Guidry 17.7
1972 Perry 17.7
1995 R Johnson 17.7
1980 Carlton 17.5
1953 Roberts 17.5

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